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Author Topic: Nederland main winch  (Read 470 times)

Pixey

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Nederland main winch
« on: August 23, 2019, 09:26:25 AM »

Just joined the forum, and have a few questions that experienced builders could answer.  About six years ago I started building  my first model, a Billings 1:33 Nederland.  Then I had a stroke and pacemaker and only now picking up where I left off.  I thought Billingsí kit was pretty crude, with too much simplification, so I made many parts from metal.  (Laziness I guess Ė it avoided all that filling and rubbing down.)  Also the drawings were quite vague in some respects and I found David Metcalfís drawings much better, although there were some differences between the two.  Iíve decided to make the main towing winch a working model, but lack of detail in the drawings is bugging me and apart from a few pictures I found on the internet, Iím stuck with the spooling drive.  I like to have a pretty good idea of the way things work, and Iíd be grateful if someone could explain the arrangement of the chain drive from the main shaft to the drive for the spooling shaft.  There appears to be a gearbox(?) connecting the two chainwheels, but it canít just float, so there must be some means of attachment.  Again, the model plans are vague and of little help.  Alternatively, does anyone know the make and model of the Nederland winch?  Maybe I can get factory drawings or better pictures.
Another question: where can I obtain miniature roller chain and wheels, say, 1.5 mm pitch?  Clock fusee chain might do the job, but I canít find the sprockets.
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derekwarner

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Re: Nederland main winch
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 11:21:43 AM »


Welcome Pixie...


The smallest minature transmission chain & pinions is I believe from the American SPD-SI Group......however is 1.87mm pitch, not 1.5mm pitch


http://www.sdp-si.com/contact/quote.php


I find them excellent people to deal with, however you may need a second mortgage on your home  O0


My application is an actual drive, I would not consider their product for for any static model


The winch you show could be driven by an AC motor and speed reducer or a DC/MG set with speed control.......it is also possible that the actual speed reducer is mounted and fully located within the bore of the main drum, hence...may not be visible to the naked eye


The [aft] chain driving downwards would appear to be for the double helix horizontal pay-in/pay-out screw shaft for correct layering of the main wire. Not sure what the other chain function [in the fwd direction] could be.......   


So the function of the double helix is simple, a nut with an internal double female helix is the carrier for the wire feeder roller hub......so when paying in, the direction of rotation of the main drum is constant, the small roller chain drive from the main drum doesn't change direction, however as the nut reaches the end of the horizontal displacement, it re-engages in the opposite direction helix thread and progresses until the opposite movement re-engages again etc...all without changing any direction of shaft rotation


From this, a 1.5mm pitch chain may be for a 1:10 scale model?.......or a ~~15mm  pitch chain drive in real life....


Hagglunds Marathon hydraulic drives for Naviere Stern Ramps had a similar winch wire drum sizing you have displayed. These used a 5/8" [~~16mm pitch] duplex roller chain for the winch rope carrier


So I must ask, what scale do you propose?


regards Derek



PS......Google suggests the following for the Smit Rusland .......they may be able to offer more information......


Towing winch Van der Giesen, IHC DMN, maximum pull 163 kN on third layer
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Pixey

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Re: Nederland main winch
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 11:54:04 AM »

Derek
Thanks for reply.  You've given me an idea for the main drum drive.  I've used out-runner motors for the prop drives, and I could fit one into the drum.  They're very powerful and develop lots of torque at very low speed.  The scale of the Billings tug is 1:33, so I would have guessed that the chain drive for the spooler would be maybe 25 mm / 1" pitch.  So really I would need a chain of about 0.8 mm pitch.  I have a clock with a fusee chain of about that size but it's not really suitable for a sprocket drive.  And I'm not inclined to wreck the clock for its chain!  Trouble is, I've seen micro chains on instruments etc. so somebody makes or used to make them.  For function only, I can get away with micro toothed belt drives as used on office equipment, vending machines etc.  I'll probably go that way since the chain drives are not really visible.  I think the "gearbox" connecting the two drives is just that or, or perhaps the box has a pair of bearings and a simple shaft connecting the two chainwheels.  I'll get there in the end.  Unfortunately for me, ignorance isn't bliss ...
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chipmonk

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Re: Nederland main winch
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 02:42:48 PM »


You could try motionco. I have used their micro plastic chain on a couple of paddlers and they are stronger than they look. And they have a number of different sizes of sprockets to match. cheers Chris M
https://www.motionco.co.uk/chain-sprockets-c-21.html
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Pixey

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Re: Nederland main winch
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 05:03:03 PM »

Thanks Chipmunk.  Brilliant.  Not just sprockets and chain, but lots of other goodies too
Regards
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