Model Boat Mayhem

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Author Topic: Club woes  (Read 2993 times)

old man

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2019, 08:52:13 AM »

look at this link
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/local-government-legislation-byelaws#making-a-new-byelaw




It would be very interesting on analysis to see their answers to each individual point requiring consideration prior to making the bye law?


It would on being challenged at a higher level, seemingly fail when tested against the proportional and alternative solution points?


FWIW, would not go down the personal contact route too far, could ruin a friendship?
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Not sinking just yet but control is problematic.

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phil_parker

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2019, 04:59:00 PM »

Speaking to councillors is always the best way forward, but you need to go further and get on first name terms with senior council officers, heads of departments, journalists and MPs etc.  They find it much harder to say no to Alex, rather than to the world at large.
Also start a community group for the park. One of our first acts when we were served notice to quit our previous lake was to create "Friends of Eirias Park" who do litter picks, find grants for park improvements and soon your group is doing more for the park than the council ever did and the publicity attracts people who join to help.
Then you are an effective pressure group and not just some old blokes nagging for special treatment. Under pressure council got us a 45,000 grant to restore a bigger lake in the park.
There are usually loads of grants you can apply for, but it needs to be an organised group. When I worked for a Council, we had an officer dedicated to ensuring locals got as much free cash as possible. I suspect that position has long since gone so Central Government can claw back any money to pay for their expenses...
However, being part of a group that does something positive is a big help. The Councils simply don't have the staff for "nice" things in the way they used to have. If you aren't ticking a central government mandated box (and there are lots of those) then it doesn't get done and hoping there is a box for nice things is a waste of time (write to your MP). Anyway, lots of Councils are happy to get a group to take over caring for green space and will support it. Councillors and Chief Officers love having their photo taken for the local press taking some of the credit.

(Incidentally, this isn't just a UK thing. Central Park in New York is was saved from dereliction by The Central Park Community Fund)
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phil_parker

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2019, 05:02:19 PM »

I've already got a few potential backups in local holiday sites which have ponds on their property but it reduces the chance of their being able to attract members via footfall alone and is likely to come with some stringent access restrictions.
Forget footfall. People will find you via your website and Facebook page. The KMBC is hidden away on a farm, away from prying eyes and we aren't short of members. Being out of the public gaze means we rarely have trouble with yobs or vandals. Having to put a bit of effort in to find us means they normally don't (let's hope I'm not tempting fate saying this!) and we get to sail in peace any day of the week.
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ChrisF

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2019, 06:19:54 PM »

Should they be flying drones in a public park anyway given the rules/legislation already in place as regards their use?

Poor show by the Council as given a bit more thought (well some!) they could have brought in a new by-law but worded it so that only RC could be used where prior approval had been obtained/licenced and insurance was in place which could have easily out-lawed the illegal use of drones without a blanket ban.
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phil_parker

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 07:43:33 PM »

Poor show by the Council as given a bit more thought (well some!) they could have brought in a new by-law but worded it so that only RC could be used where prior approval had been obtained/licenced and insurance was in place which could have easily out-lawed the illegal use of drones without a blanket ban.
Welcome to the world of red tape!
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red181

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 11:13:06 PM »


I wont bore all with the details, but I gained permission to use a small lake with waterplanes, its was a battle, but getting a new  byelaw passed a big task, and this is how I won, as there wasn't a byelaw in place prohibiting the use I wanted. I became a thorn in the council side


so, have you seen evidence of the new byelaw? this claim might be something to just make you go away. You might have to fight against disturbing nesting birds and so on, that's another thing. If its a public park, I would just carry on, what's the chance of a councillor actually turning up and moving you on?
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TugCowboy

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 08:39:09 AM »

Thanks guys.

Bit of an interesting turn to the story so far. Managed to get my hands on the public version of the published bylaws and they actually state that "Model boats" may be used in designated areas. There is a boating lake so this seems like the ideal place to me.
I've also, with the help of a local historian and local Councillor who is in support of the idea, managed to come up with a  whole host of images of that lake being used for boats and model boats. One of the images is even of kids sailing toy boats back in 1904. The most recent image is from the late 80's but the lake is still designated on official council maps as a Boating Lake Today.

I haven't seen any proof of the new bylaw banning all RC craft yet, nor any documents supporting its application.

I'm still wary of wanting to wage a war with the council over this as I don't want them to be a hostile partner, I'd much rather have their support/blessing to make things easier to expand and organise events in the future, but right now I'm trying to keep on at them with the facts, and pushing the viewpoint that it'll mainly be a small group of blokes interested in playing with model boats and promoting some responsible model use in the area rather than the negatives that have been seen recently.

I also don't want to just organise meeting up with other modellers there and sail regardless as the individual In charge of the park has CCed all the rangers in to the emails saying we can't use it and it's quite well patrolled.

Thanks for all the continued support so far, still not actually any further forward but much more ammunition in our corner at the moment.

Alex


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red181

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 09:17:08 AM »


to give a bit of help, I was faced with exactly the same, but I was flying rc waterplanes, which brings more complications. I agree, don't take on a war, but become a thorn in their side. The small lake I use was still showing on google earth as a model boat lake. They didn't want me there, but just couldn't come up with a reason, and by their own admission, the thought of setting a new byelaw was too much trouble, so they thought I would just go away, which I didn't.


Things that helped:


I did a risk assessment on the site, and offered the position I would use to launch the models
I offered a compromise, so no IC, no fast stuff etc, no racing, just scale models
I said there would be a cap on numbers ( less than 10)
litter patrol
signage saying rc planes in operation


I even involved the BMFA  (British model flying association)!


the agreement was very restrictive, avoiding school hols, no weekends, no bank hols, 9.00am to 3.30pm the big restriction was avoiding the migrating and nesting seasons, I get that, with flying, but if you offer compromise you might get a result :-))
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phil_parker

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Re: Club woes
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 09:48:48 PM »

It's important to get your local councillor(s) on side. The Chief Officers in the Council might consider them a pain (they were, often interfering in things they had no understanding of and being less interested in results than scoring points) but they do have to be listened too by the organisation. Clobber them with a confrontational attitude and you are wasting your time, but butter them up and you suddenly have a freind in high places, especially if they think they will get their picture in the paper...
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