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Author Topic: Large custom gas tanks  (Read 895 times)

rhavrane

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Large custom gas tanks
« on: October 19, 2019, 12:39:21 PM »

Bonjour,
To minimize the effects of cooling in use, I am making large horizontal or vertical gas tanks and in addition I add a visible level:
https://youtu.be/aF4IRpIQbro
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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pendlesteam

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »

The effect of gas cooling is the single biggest killer of boiler performance. I often have customers complain that their boiler isnt performing as well as it should when in fact it is the massive drop in gas pressure caused by cooling which is to blame. For that reason I reccommend that a large disposable gas tank be used, the bigger the better and even then these suffer from freezing (the sun is always shining where Raphael lives but its cold in north UK LOL). Even the slightest warming has a massive effect on gas pressure and so some kind of tank warming is very desirable. Easiest solution is to have the tank on the same metal base as the boiler, or to position the tank extremely close to the boiler - but not touching it. A steam exhaust driven heater coil can be made and ive even seen a battery powered heater coil used. A burner with a no.5 jet as used in most of our (Pendle Steam) burners isnt such a problem but for boilers such as our 4.5" high output boiler which has a flue of 2.5" a no.16 jet is needed and these quickly cool even a large gas tank - add a little warmth and they burn like a rocket, allow them to start to freeze and they wont work effectively at all. Whilst the tank Raphael has made is clearly well made and holding gas be aware that any gas tank home build in UK will be subject to a club pressure test of 400psi - and never use a commercially made steam tap as a gas tap as they are prone to leaking. Fine for steam but not so for a gas which is heavier than air.
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rhavrane

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2019, 01:04:55 PM »

Bonjour,
I fully agree with Nigel's information and I would just add that JMC tests his tanks to 10 bar (300 PSI).
On several of my boats, the tank is on the metal base and they heat, so I, completing the gas regulator, I add to them a gas attenuator :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arL10A6wsNo&t=49s
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 09:48:20 PM »

Bonjour,
To minimize the effects of cooling in use, I am making large horizontal or vertical gas tanks and in addition I add a visible level:
https://youtu.be/aF4IRpIQbro


I enjoy your videos, but I wish there were English sub-titles.
On some of the camping burners you can turn the tank/canister upside down and draw liquid from the tank. I remember one of the designs in Model Boats by Peter Arnot I think, where he had two takeoffs on the tank ted together, each with a valve on to draw liquid from the bottom of the tank and the other drawing gas from the start. he started on gas then switched to liquid.  Gerald.
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rhavrane

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 10:01:55 PM »

Bonjour Gerald,
Many thanks for this kind message  :-))
For a reason I do not understand, YouTube offers English translations for Dutch subtitles but not for French ones  :(( 
Perhaps because we are not popular enough, and especially in this so confidential passion.
I try to speak slowly, so the French subtitles are supposed to be as correct as possible, but I recognize that it is not enough; I sincerely apologize. If you have any question on a video, never hesitate to post it, Google translator is my friend  ok2
 
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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derekwarner

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 02:45:13 AM »

I do not complain Raphael.......interesting I am a member of the Red and the Blue French model boating WEB sites........I am sure you are also a member in both sites.....you know....KBIO, Claude, Rookie...........and another WEB site where two slightly scale plank in frame models of Seakadet
__________________________________



Also on the Paddleducks WEB, a member site name  = Hankwilliams [Thomas Hilderbrand from Germany], manufactures his own boilers and Custom Gas Tanks


One gas tank he has produced is silver soldered from 90 degree copper elbows and a few straight tubular sections to to form a large U shape.......web link below is a great read


http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7191.msg41698#msg41698
__________________________________

I type in English, and the WEB does the translation to French for other members....I set the machine to the auto translate French to English option


I know this is text only, but I do not see any subtitles embedded in your Videos


Derek
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Derek Warner

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rhavrane

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 08:09:06 AM »

Bonjour Derek,
I know the French red blue forum but am not a member, I have choosen another one : http://www.bloooo.fr/forums/index.php
And thanks to your links, I discover this Paddlesucks site.

This gas tank is made of 2 mm copper by JMC who is a professional manifacturere as Anton : https://www.jmc-vapeur.fr/  I have bought lots of his boilers and tanks and I fully trust him.

In France, we have no regulation for toys but security is important !

About my videos, I apologize but I do not know why TouTube would translate automatically Dutch an not French. As I always say, thanks to Google translator, I always answer to questions written on my videos.

With several subscribers all over the world, I have created links all over the world and we also share our experience and adventures out of forums :-)) 

I would like to come to Australia (you have Mildura manufacturer) but not obvious... as you coming to Atlantica...

My major concern is that I do not build, I integrate and we have less and less builders or manufacturers as our passion does not interest younger people...
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Ma chaÓne YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane
Mes albums : https://picasaweb.google.com/104408627118165995713/

derekwarner

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 10:46:02 AM »

Bonjour to yo too Raphael....... O0


From the the WEB site http://www.bloooo.fr/forums/index.php and see many members names from the other French steam/marine Groups


I understand the quality of JMC products..my purchase of a JMC3H engine directly from him some years ago confirms this ..never used yet


Your concern with fewer manufacturers offering goods in the market is understood....


[it is supply + demand = the $ sell price, then the acceptable buy price is determined by the manufacturer having sufficient batch lots to make a profit]  <*<


Derek
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Derek Warner

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www.ils.org.au

Bernhard

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 12:42:01 PM »

hi I have used this fore years works perfect

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rhavrane

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 01:55:09 PM »

Bonjour,
Derek, the 3 cc JMC is a beast, I have one on my 1,35 m / 16 kilos San Julian 2  :-))  Do you know Mildura products https://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Miniature-Steam-Models-p1.html


Bernhard, where does your gas tank come from ?


Gerald, you evoked operation with the liquid phase gas, it is perfect in theory because the tank never freezes and the gas pressure is constant but as a big concern, it is much more difficult to install and to operate. 99% of the boats I see use gas phase, with the inconvenience we know.
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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Bernhard

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 02:16:56 PM »

Hi top from Cleverdon
Under Macsteam .Mike
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southsteyne2

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2019, 09:25:02 AM »

I have seen twin gas tanks connected to a T and then to the burner  helps to reduce the freezingCheers
John
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rhavrane

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Re: Large custom gas tanks
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2019, 04:52:45 PM »

Bonjour John,
You are right, this solution creates a large surface of calorie exchange, two medium tanks develop more than a large one.


To my opinion, the concerns are that you have to manage two tanks, because to fill both, you need to open both, this means more possible leak points, soldering the junction can be touchy, more weight and more room is needed, not obvious in a thin hull.


Here is what can be done when you have plenty of room : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Jsn97535w
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RaphaŽl
RaphaŽlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
Membre du Modele Yacht Club de Paris http://mycparis.fr/
Ma chaÓne YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/rhavrane
Mes albums : https://picasaweb.google.com/104408627118165995713/
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