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Author Topic: HMS Prince of Wales  (Read 1984 times)

warspite

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2019, 11:37:53 AM »

I understood the need due to unused munitions, but where a fully laden F16 on a US carrier is at breakneck speed the Vstol should be able to come in at a relatively slower speed with better control as remember he has to come to a stop without the aid of any arrester cables as they are not fitted to lizzy or the prisoner of war Oh I mean the prince of wales  :P %) ;)
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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2019, 01:29:22 PM »

I think part of the problem is that the F35 has a much fiercer and more concentrated blast from the downward jet than the Harrier ever had. The harrier used a wider spread and cooler down jet which in effect allowed the pilot to bring the plane down like an Otis elevator to a soft landing . The F35 has a fierce blast not much bigger dia. than a dinner plate. We know that they had to develop a very special deck finish to stand the blast but it seems they still have to limit the hover by stabilising with the fan nozzle 3M off the deck and then coming down fast and immediately cutting the engine. You may have noticed that on the earlier test landings as soon as the landed plane was rolled an engineer was over to the hot spot taking readings and examining the surface .
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2019, 01:37:19 PM »

The F35 also weighs over twice a much as the Harrier, even empty!

Colin
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roycv

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »

Yes and I noticed when night flying the exhaust glowed red.
Roy
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2019, 02:46:31 PM »

The runway and hover pads at Marham were rebuilt when I was stationed there earlier last year to take the heat blast from the JSF exhaust. They were not allowed to use the Tornado taxiing areas for fear of melting the tarmac!
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Nick B

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Niall

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2019, 02:51:00 PM »

A few points -
When taking off or landing vertically the F35B needs to use its afterburner, the Harrier did not have an afterburner, so its exhaust was significantly cooler.
The F35B has sucessfuly trialled a convential landing, using partial vectored thrust. This allows the aircraft to land at a geater weight. These trials were shown on the recently aired BBC TV series on HMS Queen Elizabeth.
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2019, 04:18:34 PM »

Well gentleman, thanks for the info which does not seem to be in the general info given on the carriers I have seen. But yes Colin they would be cheaper than the Yanks, because I should imagine our vessels are not sophisticated as the Yanks, with no nuclear propulsion, magnetic catapults etc and the ability to operate fixed wing aircraft which gives the ability to have a versatile mix of aircraft for particular tasks. I have read on American sites the U.S.Navy refused the F35 as they felt it was not suitable and went for their own design, which is now currently in service. But whatever, just hope our boys never have to test any of this gear in anger.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2019, 04:52:41 PM »

The F35 is used by the US Navy and US Marines. The Marines have the same variant as the RN while the US Navy has the conventional carrier variant which requires catapults and arrestor wires. They are all fixed wing aircraft (as opposed to rotary wing).

There have been a lot of problems with the F35 programme and you can get an idea of this from the Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

The RN and RAF use the same STOVL (Short Take Off Vertical Landing) variant for interchangeability, no doubt Nick can give a better idea of what this might entail in practice.

Colin
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KitS

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2019, 05:16:38 PM »


The USN F-36s are the C variant, which has longer, and folding, wings compared to the USAF's A variant and the USMC and RAF's (and others as well) B variant.


Only the aft exhaust of the F-35B is mega hot, the front fan, which only operates during take-off and landing, runs at 'room temperature', but it blows VERY hard.


Big headedly I'd say they only work because of me  :-) as I installed and maintained the monster welder at Rolls Royce nr. Nottingham which produces every lift fan for every F-35B variant.
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2019, 08:30:02 PM »

Sounds good, I was on a USA site and they had a pic off a F37 or 38, which had just done a trial landing it had a female test pilot. The guy was going on about it was the navy's own plane and not the F35, but to be honest my age I let it all go over my head now as long as my pension is paid each month. But my wife's nephew loves the F35, but then he had the job of evaluating them and training the RAF pilots in the USA. Myself I still love the old Buccaneer.
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KitS

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2019, 10:01:35 PM »




 Myself I still love the old Buccaneer.




NOW you're talking!  :-))


The Bucc was a real aeroplane, machined from the solid, or so they told me when was sorting out their test rig at Brough.  :-)
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2019, 08:07:14 AM »


NOW you're talking!  :-))


The Bucc was a real aeroplane, machined from the solid, or so they told me when was sorting out their test rig at Brough.  :-)




I had a customer in Saturday after advice on the best Buccaneer kit to start with, the old Matchbox one or the new Airfix one ( I suggested the Matchbox one, a bit of a dog, but so many less parts! ). It turned out he flew them for ten years back in the day, RAF though, not Fleet Air Arm, not his fault %) . Less than one hour later, I was selling a 1/48 Airfix Lightning to an ex Lightning pilot of twelve years standing. I think he won that one!
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KitS

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2019, 04:15:00 PM »



 ( I suggested the Matchbox one, a bit of a dog, but so many less parts! ).




Yes, the new Airfix Buccaneer kit is a wonderful piece of plastic engineering, but the box is just about TWICE as large as its predecessor, in the same scale.  {:-{
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2019, 08:49:31 PM »

Talking of Buccaneers, took this pic when it was circling Gib to warn of the Spanish police boats in about 1984, she was about 200ft above the North mole. They had about 6 there and what a sight they made.
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frogman3

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2019, 10:01:37 PM »


Back to the F35 I cant understand why it has a forward tiltin opening cockpit ?
chris
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RST

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2019, 10:31:59 PM »

Please tell.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2019, 10:38:28 PM »

I have no idea either- added complication and it means you have to jettison the windscreen with it when trouble happens. Not logical to me! {:-{
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Nick B

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2019, 10:41:36 PM »

Is it something to do with the air brake behind the cockpit?

Colin
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Taranis

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2019, 10:48:42 PM »

Is it something to do with the air brake behind the cockpit?

Colin
Google indicates so
To provide more room for the lift fan assembly the hinge system is at the front


Re ejection of canopy I believe it is automatic with explosive bolts if the seat is operated
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2019, 10:52:06 PM »


Re ejection of canopy I believe it is automatic with explosive bolts if the seat is operated


Thatís standard on most fast jet aircraft, can go horribly wrong if the wrong pins are fitted to the seat- the seat can fall out as per a rather nasty incident in 2007 when my mate Wolfy was killed in a Tornado.
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Nick B

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Taranis

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2019, 10:54:37 PM »

Re my previous statement
Apparently there are three lengths of cockpit and itís not a problem on the short canopy but is in the longer ones hence hinged at the front


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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2019, 11:02:35 PM »

Interesting, I had a funny incident at Marham before I was posted earlier this year regarding the canopy on the F35. 617 Sqn had to borrow one of our HASs to change a canopy and obviously we were quite interested in seeing it as it being the new toy in the RAF. They had a scratch which they needed to blend out so they did but as they peeled back the masking tape it ripped the gold layer off the canopy!
As a result they had to change the entire canopy which took several days to complete being one of the first canopy changes in the F35 history. The station commander was not impressed!
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Nick B

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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2019, 03:22:09 AM »

So NickB says........"The station commander was not impressed!"

It is a wonder that the SC/CO was not demoted & reposted to a British Base in Bahrain, Belize or Brunei :-X
Or was a scapegoat <*< found in the Ranks below?

Derek
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2019, 08:25:11 AM »

Not using Tamiya Tape then :D
Ned
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2019, 05:14:48 PM »


NOW you're talking!  :-))


The Bucc was a real aeroplane, machined from the solid, or so they told me when was sorting out their test rig at Brough.  :-)
Apologies here.
Sorry for the hijack but......weren't they the planes that couldn't hit the Torrey Canyon wreck to set it on fire?
Brain freeze???
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