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Author Topic: Clear coats  (Read 3093 times)

badbunny

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Clear coats
« on: October 03, 2007, 08:59:28 AM »

Hi,I am very confused about clear coats. I've read loads of articles on the net, with contradicting recommendations.

What products do people use for clear coating enamel paints (humbrol or the White Ensign Models) to achieve the following finishes:
- matt
- satin
- gloss

When you apply the clear coat, do you spray sub-assemblies before final fixing to the model? It seems that it might be really difficult to get complete coverage when there is lots of detail present (particularly with small scale warships where there is lots of deck clutter).

Are there any traps you need to be aware of that can spoil the finish?

Thanks,
Peter.
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DickyD

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 10:27:11 AM »

I use Ronseal varnish which comes in Matt, Satin or Gloss finish. I apply with a brush. Do not apply to thickly. 2 thin coats are better than 1 thick coat.  O0
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badbunny

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 11:29:21 AM »

Hi Richard, do you find that the Ronseal goes on without leaving brush marks?

Pete.
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DickyD

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 12:30:22 PM »

Not too many if you dont put it on too thick   O0
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Voyager

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 03:49:43 PM »

Agreed....Nothing matches Ronseal satin varnish O0 Stay clear of the Humbrol satin/gloss/matt varnish, it never seems to dry fully and remains tacky to the touch!
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meridian

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2007, 04:21:42 PM »

Ronseal Satin Varnish, good quality brush, thin coats.
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wombat

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2007, 10:16:57 AM »

Is this the water soluble stuff - I tried that on the Aziz and it never seemed to stick properly
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2007, 10:25:34 AM »

Don't use the water soluble acrylic stuff - as you say, it doesn't always adhere properly and if left in water it can "bloom". The others are referring to Ronseal polyurethane interior varnish which gives a tough coating over most finishes - but not all! Don't use the outdoor variety varnish over paint as it contains UV filters which give it a yellowish tint - OK on bare wood but not otherwise.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 05:54:35 PM »

At the risk of some more approbium I would humbly suggest that the use of anything "gloss" on a model is a no-no. Satin is fine for "fancy work" (varnished timber etc.), but matt is better; especially when given a light spray over with matt laquer. This seems to add "depth" without making the whole thing look too shiny. A reasonable way of judging "shineyness" is to look at a real ship or boat from a distance that makes the real thing look about as big as your model when at arms length. I think you will find that everything on the real boat will then look muted and "matt"...unless you are building a "gin-palace" of course. BY.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 05:59:15 PM »

Nothing there to disagree with Bryan. Some modern vessels built to a large scale benefit from Satin but as you say, older prototypes generally look best with a matt finish. There was an excellent naval tug kit at the recent ME Exhibition which looked as if it had been finished with satin and I think it would have looked better in matt.
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DickyD

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 06:07:41 PM »

I agree with Bryan on this one. Matt varnish does normally give a more realistic finish. O0
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anmo

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 06:10:22 PM »

At the risk of some more approbium I would humbly suggest that the use of anything "gloss" on a model is a no-no. Satin is fine for "fancy work" (varnished timber etc.), but matt is better; especially when given a light spray over with matt laquer. This seems to add "depth" without making the whole thing look too shiny. A reasonable way of judging "shineyness" is to look at a real ship or boat from a distance that makes the real thing look about as big as your model when at arms length. I think you will find that everything on the real boat will then look muted and "matt"...unless you are building a "gin-palace" of course. BY.

All absolutely correct Bryan, and we'll save any opprobrium for another day. It's due to a phenomenon known as 'colour perspective', gloss finishes can only be seen as such from a short distance, and all colors become more muted the farther away they are. To understand this, think of a tree. Close up the trunk is brown and the leaves are green, but as the viewer moves away from it, the colours become less and less distinct, until when it's on the horizon, it's pretty much impossible to make out much colour at all. That's why slightly muted colours are best for a model, if a 100th scale model is viewed from 2 metres, the effect should be the same as the real thing seen from 200 metres, at which distance colours look slightly less vivid than they would if you had your nose pressed up against it.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 06:17:18 PM »

Just a thought but I don't know of a satisfactory durable clear coat to go over white. All varnishes seem to have some degree of colour cast, usually yellowish, and while you can get away with it over darker colours it always seems to make white look dingy. Which means you have to rely on the topcoat if you have a white hull or upperworks.
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meridian

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 09:19:13 PM »

I only ever varnish the hull, i.e. with clear satin Ronseal, the idea being that this gives additional protection against the inevitable knocks, scrapes and bumps. The upper works I leave as painted/sprayed.












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Bluebird v2

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 09:26:26 PM »

Hi all,

Just a thought, is there a difference between the laquer that is sprayed on to cars on top of metalic paints? and normal modelling spray varnish?? (Humbrol)  I used this on one of my models and whilst its lost its sheen - it aint turned yellow yet.   Plus, Ive never seen a 'yellowing car' that hasnt had the base coat yellow.

Ive also used a product called 'Flare' as a semi-matt top coat - good stuff - also acts as a fuel proofer and this has not deteriorated or gone yellow yet.

aye
john e
bluebird
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Holmsey

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2007, 09:30:54 PM »

Has anyone tried Johnsons' Clear with Tamiya Flat Base

Holmsey
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Bryan Young

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 11:16:07 PM »

Just a thought but I don't know of a satisfactory durable clear coat to go over white. All varnishes seem to have some degree of colour cast, usually yellowish, and while you can get away with it over darker colours it always seems to make white look dingy. Which means you have to rely on the topcoat if you have a white hull or upperworks.
In which case, why laquer it? Good topic though. BY.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 11:48:22 PM »

Quote
In which case, why laquer it?

As said in an earlier post, for protection against knocks and scrapes.

If you are making say, a liner model or a steam yacht with a white hull you need a matt or satin white which is "scrubbable" and won't show marks. White aerosol primer isn't up to it and if you put on a gloss topcoat it spoils the effect. I am trying Plasticote satin white spray which looks hopeful. Another possibility might be "appliance white" which may not give too high a gloss. On another thread Stavros said Halfords do a clear satin laquer but I can't find it listed, only the usual gloss clearcoat which is normally applied over metallic car colours.
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DickyD

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2007, 09:03:33 AM »

Quote
In which case, why laquer it?

As said in an earlier post, for protection against knocks and scrapes.

If you are making say, a liner model or a steam yacht with a white hull you need a matt or satin white which is "scrubbable" and won't show marks. White aerosol primer isn't up to it and if you put on a gloss topcoat it spoils the effect. I am trying Plasticote satin white spray which looks hopeful. Another possibility might be "appliance white" which may not give too high a gloss. On another thread Stavros said Halfords do a clear satin laquer but I can't find it listed, only the usual gloss clearcoat which is normally applied over metallic car colours.
Colin have you seen these:

http://www.paintsprays.co.uk/catalog/clear-sealer-acrylic-varnish-c-122.html?osCsid=3e1745a0af24eb0a0571219319f61475

 O0
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2007, 09:34:12 AM »

Yes Richard, except for the Industrial varnish. While they may not "yellow", the non water based varnishes are still prone to giving a colour cast on white. To get a better degree of transparency you need the water based ones such as Krystal Clear or the Ronseal equivalents.  These don't seem to bond very well to enamel or acrylic finishes and can peel off if the film is broken. They are also prone to blooming if constantly immersed in water.
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Stavros

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2007, 05:58:55 PM »

Havign read the  products on DickyD's link I personally think that the only product suitable for modeling is the Krystal clear,BUT If you have used Halfords Acrylic pants well I personally WOULD NOT use it as many of you out there have had major problems with Plasticoat reacting with the other paint product used.If you feel the need to varnish lord knows why,but if you insist then go down the ronseal route

Stavros
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2007, 06:01:44 PM »

And that Stavros, is the plain unvarnished truth!
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Bryan Young

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2007, 06:18:59 PM »

Hi all,

Just a thought, is there a difference between the laquer that is sprayed on to cars on top of metalic paints? and normal modelling spray varnish?? (Humbrol)  I used this on one of my models and whilst its lost its sheen - it aint turned yellow yet.   Plus, Ive never seen a 'yellowing car' that hasnt had the base coat yellow.

Ive also used a product called 'Flare' as a semi-matt top coat - good stuff - also acts as a fuel proofer and this has not deteriorated or gone yellow yet.

aye
john e
bluebird
Totally agree. "Flair" (or is it "Flare"?) is superb as a finishing coat. Seems to resist everything I've thrown at it!
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meridian

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 09:45:33 PM »

Colin, I used 'Appliance White' (Halfords) on the cabin of my last build and it does give a nice brilliant white satin-like finish. It's not yellowed yet but it was only sprayed in May this year so early days! However I did have an excursion with the boat on its first outing with the result that the cabin became detached and although it was resting upside-down on a pontoon it was bobbing up and down and slowly sinking into the murky depths. The rescue boat saved the day (and the model) and luckily no damage was done apart from three cowl-vents being cleanly stripped off the roof and lost forever. There were no scatches on the cabin paintwork so apparently no need for coats of varnish.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Clear coats
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 10:09:58 PM »

Thanks for the info Meridian. I think appliance white is probably a good option although, as Stavros says, make sure that the primer and any undercoats are also Halfords. I believe Plasticote do an appliance white too but they also do an actual satin white as well which is what I have used. I used their own white primer underneath.
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