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Author Topic: Minelayer pennant numbers  (Read 794 times)

17-09

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Minelayer pennant numbers
« on: November 17, 2019, 04:44:03 PM »

Hi All,
 I would like to add pennant numbers to my HMS Ariadne Minelayer, however I have not seen any photos of her with pennant numbers.
The flag superior was M but changed to N later, I would like to use flag superior N on mine.(pardon the pun)
Were the pennant numbers outlined in white at that time, I believe she was in service until the 60's, she was M65/N65.
Many thanks in anticipation.....
17-09   Alan......
 
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TailUK

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 05:24:46 PM »

Ariadne seems to have started wearing her pennant number sometime in the late 50s  For some reason all of the Abdiel class were given the pennant prefix "N" which in my references means "minesweeper" as opposed to "M" for minelayer.    The only picture I could find was of Manxman leaving Chatham in 1968 with the pennant number outlined in white on the stern.
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raflaunches

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 05:26:01 PM »

Here is Manxman post WW2 with her N pennant on the hull, going to guess Ariadne was similar.

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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 07:47:03 PM »

Thank you both so much, I will now use pennant N with a white outline now that I have photographic proof.
My next question is where do I find water slide transfers that contain the letter N ? I have always used Fox transfers
but they do not print the letter N or M in their RN pennant number sets. BECC stick on numbers have a slight thickness that show an edge on smaller scale models.
17-09   Alan.....
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deadbeat

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 03:05:39 PM »

Just to confirm your decision as to a white border, here's a piccy of Apollo
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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 03:48:30 PM »

Again, thank you, they are unusual ships that deserve to be modelled, I do like the finishing touches like the pennant numbers to be added if appropriate, still looking for water slides though, I have contacted Fox transfers to see if they might add all the flag superiors to their range.
 Regards  Alan 17-09
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deadbeat

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 04:50:51 PM »

Is there anything in this product range which would suit?
http://www.becc.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d7.html
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dodes

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2019, 09:19:53 PM »

Just been looking at some pics of Ariadne, on Pacific deployment and as built and like her sister ships had no pennant number painted on during the war. The book I am referring to is "Very Special Ships"by Arthur Nicholson, ISBN 978 1 84832 235 6. Good book to get a feel of these vessels. Though he is wrong on their speed but that is another story.
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deadbeat

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 09:50:43 AM »

I've a few piccies of Ariadne and none show a pennant number, note the one below as preserved but still no number.

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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2019, 02:00:54 PM »

Thanks again chaps, very interesting pictures, The BECC system I have used many times and is good, but, because they are a vinyl film they have a minute thickness which shows up slightly when viewed on the angle. The water slide versions are very thin and when given a thin varnish over, look painted on, that's the problem when you are a "rivet counter"!
 Many thanks  17-09 Alan.....
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dodes

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2020, 08:41:37 PM »

As these were not convoy escort vessels they would not carry pennant numbers, much the same as other capital vessels.
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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 05:19:40 PM »

Hi Dodes,
 Thanks again for your replies re the minelayers.
As they did have pennant numbers after the war I think I will add them to Ariadne, however as deadbeat says, Ariadne as preserved did not have them!
So a bit of a dilemma. Where is/was Ariadne preserved and when?
Are you saying that all warships apart from capital ships and "minelayers" were convoy escorts? And is that the same today because all warships have pennant numbers these days including the new carriers. An interesting and fascinating subject.
Many thanks  17-09
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Rob47

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 05:30:32 PM »


Ariadne was never preserved , she had a small refit which was basically removing old AA weapons and refitting new ones then a short spell as a trials ship, then finally she was sold for scrap to WH Arnott Young at in Feb 1965 she arrived at Dalmuir and was scrapped in 1965


Bob
 
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dodes

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2020, 09:42:57 PM »

Hi, I mean in the last world war, not peace time. It may be of interest have seen a pic of a Whitby class in the Falklands war with no pennant number and subs on active war service do not wear their pennant numbers either.
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derekwarner

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2020, 10:30:23 PM »

On a serious note....is the idea of a vessel not displaying her Identification or Pennant Numbers the basis of cloak & dagger?


Many years ago, we arrived at work bright & early on a Monday morning to see an American built DDG - [Charles F Adams Class Destroyer] berthed portside to, just below the 250 Ton Dockyard crane


She bore no Pennant numbers nor Flags and was fitted with a Phalanx CIWS Gatling Gun, but was not the bluish/grey of the USN :o .......we had three [3] DDG's in our Fleet, however none were fitted with CIWS


A few hours passed before the truth became evident.....she was none other than our DDG - HMAS Brisbane with a painted out Pennant number [41].....she had been in a RIMPAC exercise off the West Australian coast with the USN & a few others


Brisbane's Commander had a pair of  dummy CIWS fitted just aft of No 1 Funnel to create a radar outline of a USN vessel........[cunning we thought].....Brisbane did evade  O0 countermeasures]


[The dummy CIWS were grey painted empty 205 litre oil drums fitted with a tall semicircular white domed top & 10 x 3' lengths of 1/2 & water pipe set to represent the rotary barrel set  {-)
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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2020, 09:59:34 AM »

Hello Derek.
This is an age-old way to deceit, it can be very successful and cost almost nothing, tricking an enemy into believing there is a greater threat to them than there actually is, can and often does work. Inflatable tanks, and aircraft during WWII, altering the outline of ships with canvas rig, Amethyst Yangtze escape, and today, the Border force cutters which have a fire fighting water cannon covered over with canvass that makes the unsuspecting think they are armed.
Back to pennant numbers which I find very interesting, having them on a model warship (If appropriate) enhances the look of it, a lot of people recognize a particular ship from its pennant number. During wartime however, these recognition features can be removed as we did in the Falklands War.
During the 70’s A television programme used HMS Phoebe as the star of the series called Warship. Her pennant number was F 42, the name given to this warship in the programme was HMS Hero. In later series HMS Juno and HMS Dido were used, their pennant numbers were changed to F 42 to maintain continuity. I was told by an old coastguard that warships never change their pennant numbers, when on duty at Dover Straits Coastguard, I spotted a Leander Frigate travelling past us with the pennant number F 42, I knew this vessel was actually HMS Dido and logged it as such, receiving the above comment from my senior. Imagine my relief when sometime later we heard a radio call ,”Folkestone pilots this is warship Dido”  sorry to go on a bit…….
17-09
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deadbeat

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2020, 12:14:10 PM »

I agree with Rob47, she was never preserved as most popular understanding of the word preserved, ie for public viewing etc, this never happened. When I used the term preserved it was that some of her weapons and machinery was cacooned in a state of preservation for a while.
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17-09

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Re: Minelayer pennant numbers
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2020, 05:19:26 PM »

Hi Deadbeat,
Thanks for the clarification.
 OK yes, held in a state of preservation, that makes more sense!
17-09
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