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Author Topic: New rudder for a schooner  (Read 209 times)

rickles23

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New rudder for a schooner
« on: January 07, 2020, 05:09:26 AM »

Hi all,

I am refurbishing a two masted schooner for an old friend but the rudder looks terrible and the quarter size servo has been stripped from having to turn the rudder.

In the photograph I have drawn the new rudder in yellow over the old one.

I made the new rudder after checking my book on Bluenose II as it has full plans of the ship and scaling it to the model hull.

I also have a small gaff rigged yacht with a similar rudder (the yellow drawing) and she has no steering problems.

Any thoughts on this?

Regards

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derekwarner

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Re: New rudder for a schooner
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 05:43:21 AM »

Welcome to 2020 rickles ....firstly, is your old friends model static, or sailing? [I understand you implied the steering servo was stripped?]


There are 100,000 links to Bluenose II in Google, and quite a few display a smaller triangular rudder, however this may be not very effectiv in a scale sailing vessel


There is certainly quite a larger swepped surface area in the original blade....I wonder was it manufactured for function over scale appearance?


Would a larger [regular] sized hi-torque servo fit in the hull?


Derek




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Derek Warner

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roycv

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Re: New rudder for a schooner
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 08:55:04 AM »

Hello, How long is the boat?  I have an Inga IV at 43 inches long.  The rudder is about 18 square inches and just about copes with steering with a good wind.  I sometimes have to use the prop to get her around on a tack.
I have a slightly longer pond yacht (Schooner) with a smaller rudder than above and she does well.  It may well be a matter of balance of the sails to the hull and if the boat requires too much weather helm to stay on course.

I have a similar length Endeavour (Amati 1 : 35) about a metre long and has a similar large rudder and only just copes with steering.  But this sail configuration was a compromise and only used in light winds, as even at scale size she is over canvassed. 

I compromised with having a cut back quadrilateral (fore) jib for appearances sake.  In a high wind this sail is removed and another forestay connected and then the yacht is balanced and sails much easier, trouble is she no longer looks much like the original Endeavour!

In a decent breeze I allow for the wind at 20 mph to have a force of 1 pound per square foot on the sails.  Although it is a bit rule of thumb it works OK for me, including deciding on keel weight.

regards
Roy
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rickles23

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Re: New rudder for a schooner
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 09:08:40 AM »

Hi both and a good 2020 to you both.


The hull is four (4) feet long and has a full keel and uses a Marblehead size Keel and lead weight.


The rudder I have drawn is based on the book about Bluenose II written by the guys who built her.


She only has steering but many years ago an old Schoonerman told me that if the sails are adjusted so that the two jib sails are a little looser than the rest of the sails it will sail itself.


I managed to cobble together a rudder and servo and gave her a quick dip and the sailing was good being very responsive to the new rudder.


I tried the old rudder and the servo could not move it. Mind you I might just tweeq the shape a little.


Regards
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tigertiger

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Re: New rudder for a schooner
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 09:58:13 AM »

I have a schooner that is about 1m long hull, approx. My rudder pattern is similar to your original one. Be aware that because of the affects of wind and water, not being scalable, the rudder needs to be much larger than scale. Your old rudder looks spot on.
You say you tried your new rudder design, and the boat responded well. Was that in light winds, or in a good strong blow?
My rudder is controlled by a normal servo (10 years and not problems), if the 1/4 scale servo has stripped, then it suggests to me, at least. that something else is wrong.
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john44

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Re: New rudder for a schooner
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 10:07:24 AM »

Hi, on my Thames barge & Brigantine I kept the rudders as to the plan and made oversize
Rudders out of clear Perspex that slot into a groove or slide over the fixed rudder just for
Sailing and removed after sailing.


John
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