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[GG]

During the Christmas holidays, Mrs Guest kindly took me for a walk around a local lake.  A river runs alongside the lake and this reminded me of an idea I had some years ago, that is sailing models in moving water.


Most sailing of scale type models seems to occur on static waters, yes they may get churned up by the wind at times but there is no overall water flow occurring. So, I thought, how much different would it be if you had to maneuver your model in steadily flowing water.


My only experience of this was sailing a model in a small stream which proved very instructive.  The first thing learnt was you try not to sail downstream 'cos even at modest throttle settings the model quickly moves away from you.  Your senses suggest that the model might not be moving fast through the water but in relation to where you are standing it is!


With the model pointing upstream, it's still strange.  The model can be held stationary with respect to yourself by applying just enough power to counter the speed of the water flowing past it.  But, if you try to maneuver with the rudder, the quick response can catch you out.  Again your senses can suggest the model is hardly moving but the water flowing around the rudder has more powerful effect than you might expect.


Sailing a steering or obstacle course under these conditions would be a challenge.  So, has anyone tried it....?


Glynn Guest
P.S. to save anyone commenting on the obvious, yes the first requirement would be a model with sufficient speed to be able to sail upstream!

[Netleyned]

Second a moving waterway
Third Buoys or Markers sufficiently
weighted to remain in position
on said moving expanse of water.
Fourth, a big net across downstream
to catch the inevitable breakdowns
or enough water to float a recovery craft. 

[tigertiger]

I have sailed wind powered models on a river that was moving about 1kph, so a scale speed of about 15-20kph. There was a jetty, and pontoons on the river side, and so coming into dock required a bit of thought.
I have also sailed on a canal, with the wind often running along the canal, creating a fair bit of fetch, and a good swell, especially when it was blowing a bit.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I enjoy sailing in moving water.
There used to be a creek nearby, where you could sail up stream, and then hover, as
you found, using just enough power to match the current. Then use the current to whip the
bow around and speed down stream. Only to turn up stream again and play some more.
Never did a maneuvering course, but we always wanted to try a Kayak style maneuvering challenge.
.
Where the skipper had to sail upstream through some gates, downstream through other gates, and
Backwards downstream etc.

 
The other thing we had planned once, was to put a fairly large pump into the pond so that docking maneuvers
would be situated in a moving current. We ran out of time that day, and didn't get to that challenge.  But a
small amount of current changes boat handling characteristics and would make for a fun day at the pond.
 

[mudway]

My club has always run on a tidal creek which flows into Narrabeen Lake. At times it is rather odd to see the model with a nice large bow wave but which is apparently not moving very fast.

[dreadnought72]

Many years ago I took my Enterprise dinghy to Padstow, and sailed from Rock most days. The Camel estuary has "ferocious" tidal streams, often hitting 3mph or more, just off the beach at Rock.


One day I was sailing here solo, and tearing along the beach on the ebb tide, on a reach, literally whizzing past sunbathers just a few yards away on the golden sands, whilst laughing my head off. A tack later? Tearing along the beach in the other direction, against the ebb, maybe doing 5/6 mph in the water, a huge bow wave, spray everywhere, still laughing ... And, yet, overtaken (on the beach, at least) by old ladies with walking sticks! 


Andy

[Andy M]

Here is my local river, complete with fallen tree obstacle course. Myself and friends use this stretch for our boating activities, occasionally getting caught on obstacles and having to wade in to retrieve our boats. Sorry for quality of photo, a still from a video. My little 23cm cruiser does manage to make way upstream but is quite a challenge due to its fairly slow speed, other boats can power their way up easily. Care has to be taken to initiate turns at the correct time and position to avoid being swept into obstacles. All good fun tho, and nobody has lost a boat yet.

[roycv]

Hi all this takes me back!  40 years ago when my son was 14 we used to keep 2 off 'Bobbies' ready to go.  We would wait for heavy rainfall and as soon as it stopped we would go down to the River Gade flowing through Cassiobury Park and sail our boats one at a time.  The river would swell up to twice its volume as it was at that point overflowing from the Grand Union canal and down through the park through Watford Fields etc.

Sometimes full speed was stationary in mid stream and you had to edge up gently at the edge of the water to get anywhere.  Both these boats had 540's in them and would normally plane on the water, 6 Nicad cells and a Bob's board with Acoms RC.  Back in the days of Park Keepers and all frowned upon by the local authorities but all exciting stuff then.
I still have one of them, now with a small brushless motor and that goes pretty fast as well.

regards
Roy

[BrianB6]

The one time i sailed on a river the boat was nearly swamped by an idiot in a full size launch.  Never again.

[GG]

It's gratifying to see that some modellers are not afraid to sail RC boats in moving water, and some apparently moving damn fast!


Umi's idea of a kayak style course has great potential, anyone willing to try it..?


Glynn Guest

[KitS]

I've sailed my 24" electric outboard boat while sailing a 1:1 scale dayboat on the Broads rivers a few times.


The model was a lot faster than the dayboat and even attracted the interest of the local River Police, who were fascinated that it was even possible to drive a model on a running river.

[JayDee]

Hello,


Many,many years ago, on the Norfolk Broads, we, as a Family, spent a week sailing .
I took my One Metre yacht, with a full sail set and sailed all over the Place !!.
Never got stranded, or stuck through shortage of Wind.
When the boat needed to be removed from the water - just lifted it out holding the Mast !!.
Lots of comments about what I was doing - - - ALL of them very good !!!.
A full week of sailing !.


John.        

[RST]

When I was growing up I lived in Linlithgow and the canal basin was my sailing pond.  Count the number of days of no wind on (almost no) fingers so there was always the inlet and exit to the basin with some form of flow between.  When it was static, sailing was great, but then the pond weed gathered so always a catch 22 situation.  I always made sure the flow would push the model towards an accessible bank rather than down the canal.

....On the flip side when I sailed the full-sized barges and the replica packet boat we learned to use the windage for turning accordingly.  I used to look ahed and see the ripples on the water the the way te trees were bending and point the barge accordingly.  If I got it wrong it took 5 mins to turn with rudder hard over and nose on the bank rather than <1min, could almost "flip" it round using the wind almost on the spot.  It was always interesting watching the other "pilots" of the barges less used to them and the wind and how they managed.

[grendel]

I quite regularly run my boats on the norfolk broads, in some places the current can be quite strong