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Author Topic: HMS Marshall Soult  (Read 3109 times)

ether823

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HMS Marshall Soult
« on: February 18, 2020, 06:39:14 pm »

Anyone built Sarik Hobbies HMS Marshal Soult, might be my next build
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2020, 01:32:47 pm »

Whilst I have not built one I'm pretty sure I have seen one and it does appear to make up into a very nice model. If I recall correctly i thought the 15" gun barrels were too thin and the plan picture seems to confirm this which is why I'm pretty sure it comes from that plan.


With a single turret you can readily get the guns to fire as well (see Iron Duke thread how to).


I think they make interesting models albeit I believe the real ones were under-powered and slow and not particularly reliable but still an interesting model and I have been thinking about one myself.


Cheers


Geoff
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warspite

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2020, 03:05:41 pm »

Being a monitor, is that why the gun seems very high above the deck, did this not create a stability issue when fired, assuming the guns equipment was stored in the body under the guns
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ether823

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2020, 03:21:06 pm »

I have a book on Monitors and Soult had a diesel engine which wasnt powerful enough. (thats why she had a small funnel, she didnt need the draught) She was a pig to steer and rammed quite a few ships in her time.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2020, 04:07:15 pm »

Warspite




You should see the underwater bulges! There is no way that she would have stability problems whilst firing her gun! ok2
I have a modified model of Marshall Soult which I believe is based upon the Sarik plans and she sails very flat and smooth- definitely doesn’t rock!
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Nick B

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ether823

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2020, 05:14:08 pm »

any chance of a photo ?

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RST

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2020, 05:31:07 pm »

If you google it throws up lots and lots of pictures of her and the class, and usual wikipedia type of entries. The class seems quite well covered. Was it Dave Abbot or Paul Freshney or someone like that who did the build way back in Model Boats mag?  Theres 2 videos crop up on google of models. One at Deans Marine and one abroad I think?  That said I feel a bit of dejavue.  Did this not get discussed on here not that long ago?


Rich
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2020, 05:36:34 pm »

Quote
Being a monitor, is that why the gun seems very high above the deck, did this not create a stability issue when fired, assuming the guns equipment was stored in the body under the guns

The gunhouse had to be high because it was essentially a battleship mounting. In a big ship the loading and training gear, handing room, shell rooms and magazines were fitted in under the upper deck but there was no room to do this on a shallow monitor hull so the turret literally stood out like a sore thumb! As Nick says, the beam and bulges took care of any stability problems.

I think they had to alter the hull form during construction which messed up the already poor hull hydrodynamics and reduced her speed to 4 knots!

Colin
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RST

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Re: HMS Marshal Soult
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2020, 05:39:41 pm »

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,62968.msg665046.html#msg665046


Hidden between incorrect spellings and thread titles, not easy to find but knew I'd seen it somewhere.


Rich
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 10:41:11 pm »


The design of the hull was such a new one to the DNC and his team that they had nothing much to go on when designing her lines. The usual plan with ship design is to look at what you did before and 'evolve' that. While the hull form was sent to Froud's for testing, the Admiralty (basically Jackie and Winnie) wanted the monitors to be built as quickly as possible and so they were just thrown onto the slips and launched as fast as possible. By the time the frames and plates were being rivetted, a worried Froud reported that the hull form was grossly inefficient and would require much more horse power, which none of the early Big Gun Monitors could provide from their limited steam or Oil plant. The Terror and Erebus were designed and built as an evolution of the earlier designs with finer lines astern and thus better performance.


Marshall Soult served as a proper Monitor for her whole life until being converted into a Depot ship in the second war (approx )while Ney, being fitted with MAN engines suffered repeated issues with starting and control. Obviously MAN were not going to help out an enemy during the war, so she was redeployed minus 15inch turret and mounting as a defence ship at various ports. All tis info is found in the 'Buxton Bible' by Ian Buxton, called 'Big Gun Monitors' and is a superb read with loads of pictures, tables and anecdotes.

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GG

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 02:10:26 pm »

It might be worth describing my experiences with a model based on these big gun monitors.  This was the free-lance model HMS Vulcan which was published in the Feb 2014 issue of Model Boats.


I too was inspired by Ian Buxton's excellent book "Big Gun Monitors" (ISBN 978-1-84832-124-3) and it gave me the chance to build a rotating and elevating gun turret.  The early vessels were rather stark and perfect for their times but, at least in my eyes, failed to inspire me.


The last two built during WW2, Roberts and Abercrombie, looked more tempting.  After reading a comment in this book that it was sometimes wished that they had their own aircraft embarked for spotting duties, I opted to design a couple of hangers and aircraft handling facilities into my model.


Using a notional scale around 1/144 produced a model some 30 inches (76 cm) long with a surprising large displacement of 10 pounds (4.5 kg) and powered by two RE385 motors.  No rudder was fitted as the model would be steered using mixed motor control.  This proved to be a mistake, at low speeds and at a reasonably close distance the model handled safely but at higher speeds it was hopeless.  Once the model entered a turn it wasn't going to stop turning no matter what you did with the controls.  The only way to regain control was to let the model drift to a halt and then slowly reapply power.  I also found that water would flow over the bulges and despite the generous coaming around the hull access opening, get inside the model.


This lead to two changes, firstly the removal of some 3 pounds (1.4 kg) of ballast which stopped water entering the hull and made it easier to launch/recover the damn thing!  Secondly, with no way to add a rudder, at least without major hull surgery, a large fixed skeg was added to the stern.   This reduced the models wayward tendencies but it was never a model to take your eyes off when sailing, just like the real things!


Using a 6 Volt battery, gave the model a top speed of about 2 ft/sec (0.6 m/s) which was a shade over the dynamic scale speed.  An interesting model to build, demanding to sail but good fun to bring it in close to the shoreline around the lake, rotate the turret and elevate the guns to "threaten" spectators!


Glynn Guest
 
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2020, 03:50:53 pm »


Given the early ones were designed to carry seaplanes and derricks to manoeuvre them, it is odd the WW2 ones did not have provision for say Walrus' or a smaller seaplane. A sea version of an Auster or specially uprated interwar seaplane with better engine and communications equipment would have been logical.


Nice model Glynn  :-))
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KitS

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 07:10:04 pm »


A catapult launched Fairey Seafox was quite a common spotter aircraft during WWII, and they were in service with the RN from 1937.





Matchbox used to do a very nice one in 1/72, but I don't know of a 1/144 scale version.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2020, 07:48:54 pm »

There we go. The Navy missed a trick. Pop a Merlin that beauty and she will probably fly without wings and keep away from stray FW190s!
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 07:59:30 pm »

Fairey did didn’t they?!?
They chopped off the floats and the upper wing and called it a Fulmar- no I’m messing- that aircraft couldn’t see off a FW190! Too big and heavy!


I must admit- the Seafox was a beautiful aircraft and it was one of the first Matchbox kits I built. I’ve still got it in my cabinet.


The real reason I believe that the later monitors didn’t have aircraft was that they had radar fitted to them.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 08:25:25 pm »


You tease :D 


Yes the action with Warspite using radar accurately in 1941 was a good demonstration of aircraft obsolescence for spotting, but over land radar was not as good so aircraft would still have been useful.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 08:41:34 pm »

But, as often was the case when suporting landings, there would have been spotting officers ashore.

Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2020, 08:46:47 pm »

Very true Colin


My HMS Gnat was often guided in to position and had her aim corrected by spotters ashore- in Gnat’s case they were the infamous Long Range Desert Group members but I believe HMS Terror was also guided by them when she was part of the Inshore Squadron before she was sunk.
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Nick B

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ether823

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2020, 10:07:15 am »

That reminds me I must get round to building my HMS Gnat.gun boat

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Martin (Admin)

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2020, 09:52:46 am »

 
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2020, 10:00:58 am »

Hi Martin


That’s a fantastic model. Do you know who the modeller is? For a start I thought it was mine but the ships boats are different. Nice footage, and thanks for the share. :-))
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Nick B

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ether823

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2020, 10:22:30 am »

how was the bilge built on the model?
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old_gunner

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Re: HMS Marshall Soult
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2020, 12:08:58 pm »

A tradition maintained by 148 Bty Royal Artiliery to this day.

Very true Colin


My HMS Gnat was often guided in to position and had her aim corrected by spotters ashore- in Gnat’s case they were the infamous Long Range Desert Group members but I believe HMS Terror was also guided by them when she was part of the Inshore Squadron before she was sunk.
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