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Author Topic: Lesro Rapier - 60's cabin cruiser  (Read 43394 times)

zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #175 on: April 11, 2021, 10:22:31 pm »

Making good progress there Bob. Definitely starting to take shape now.


That area at the transom that didn't quite reach is an odd one. As you say, it must have leaked like sieve.  A strange one that. I'm sure you will sort it and make it completely water tight.


Will


Thanks Will,

I haven't scraped the old paint off of the hull sides yet, but I did slap some pink undercoat onto the hull bottom to make it easier to see any blemishes that need some attention before turning the boat over again.

Once the bottom is finished I can continue with the topside work - and fix that area inside the hull where the bottom skin (almost) meets the transom,

Stay safe,

Bob.
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tonyH

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #176 on: April 12, 2021, 10:01:47 am »

Les Pics.....
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #177 on: April 16, 2021, 08:14:26 pm »

The hull sides of Rapier2 have now had the remains of the original white paint scraped-off and have received their first coat of white under-coat.

Meanwhile, Rapier1 has been put back together again and is now ready for its first "shake-down" run for this season following its re-fit when all of its running gear was removed and serviced as the motor mount was being reinforced and the foam engine bulkhead liner was fitted to try to reduce the boats sound level.

The boat sounded a little noisy when run last season and this may well be due to a resonance being amplified by the hulls thin plywood skins - hence the engine mount reinforcement to dampen any vibration passing through the skins in the engine bay.  The addition of six over-sized strakes to the underside of the hull (3 on each side) may also help to dampen the transmission of vibration along the length of the hull?

The inside of the hull has received a fresh coat of light grey grey paint and the outside has gained a new red and black paint scheme. The boat looks nice and aggressive with the new strakes fitted and I am looking forward to seeing if they also give any noticeable performance gains.

I will charge a LiPo battery this evening and make sure everything is working correctly when it is powered-up.
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2021, 09:30:37 pm »

You've got to the exciting point Bob.
Will keep my fingers crossed that it goes as well as you hope, plus that it runs quieter than previously too. I'm sure it will.


I look forward to reading your reports of the sea trial.


Will
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #179 on: April 17, 2021, 10:39:03 pm »

You've got to the exciting point Bob.
Will keep my fingers crossed that it goes as well as you hope, plus that it runs quieter than previously too. I'm sure it will.
I look forward to reading your reports of the sea trial.
Will


Thanks Will,

Everythingl worked OK this evening when it was tested so it is now ready to go.

The radio was changed to run on my RadioLink RC3GS and I have blanked-off the four mounting points for the trim tabs with stainless steel cap heads so I can test the boat without them fitted.

If the trim tabs are needed the same stainless capheads are the correct size to retain them with so it would only take about 5 minutes to fit them back onto the boat if they are needed.  The nuts to hold these bolts were Araldited into place when the trim tabs were first fitted as I found the confined space hard to get to so I wanted to make any future changes a bit easier.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob.
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #180 on: April 18, 2021, 11:06:35 am »

Rapier 1 ready for action.....I hope!
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #181 on: April 18, 2021, 11:18:49 am »

Wow! Looks great Bob.
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #182 on: April 18, 2021, 01:47:22 pm »

I have been waiting for the test run on the water for a long time so far from the bottom of my heart
and its pics on here,too!! %%
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #183 on: April 18, 2021, 05:44:25 pm »

I carry any small tools that may be needed "lake-side" on small magnets that have been fitted onto the rear cockpit floor.

The small Allen key fits the coupling retaining screws and the M5 collets that retain the rudder and the plain end of the 5mm prop shaft in the engine bay.

The larger Allen key fits the motor mounts to make exchanging the motor for another that is also pre-mounted on a similar water-cooled mount a job that can be done lakeside with minimum effort.

The larger spanner is to tighten the propeller against the M5 lock-nut when testing different sizes of propeller and the smaller spanner fits the M3 nuts that retain the rudder operating servo so I can change the servo quickly if it should fail when away from home.

I will exchange the stainless cap-head screws that are currently blocking the trim tab mounting holes for some some stainless "dome headed" ones as they will look a little neater - and can still be used to retain the trim tabs if they are needed.
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #184 on: April 18, 2021, 11:02:48 pm »

Very smart Bob.
I hope she performs as well as she looks  :-))
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #185 on: April 20, 2021, 06:52:14 pm »

Very smart Bob.
I hope she performs as well as she looks  :-))

Thanks Will,

I am going to start with the same Turnigy 3648-1450 out-runner motor that I used in it last season.

What I really want to see is if the strakes make any difference?

They certainly look good and I much prefer the look of the boat with them fitted, so if there is no noticeable difference I will still be happy as the boat looks so much nicer.

The trim tabs will not be fitted for this first run, but they will be taken and can be re-fitted if they are needed to help maintain a good stance in the water when the boat is running at high speed.
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2021, 11:10:17 pm »

I would think she will be more stable and predictable all round with the strakes that are now fitted.


Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on this after the sea trials.


I agree, they definitely improve the look of the boat/hull, making it look more finished and realistic.


Will
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #187 on: April 30, 2021, 04:02:05 pm »


Yes - I did  :-))

A 36" rubbing strip made from 1/8 x 1/4  obechie does not go all the way around a 39" hull - so I made the joins for the extension pieces using the KCR adhesive too!

I need to scrape the old paint off of the sides but first I want to finish all of the upside-down work and fit the prop shaft, rudder and water scoop....and plug the holes that will be left as I move the rudder and scoop positions further forwards.


Hi Bob,


Just looking back at this as thinking about my Javelins. My original one has rubbing strips from 1/8 square and my new old one doesn’t have any yet. Does it matter? The wider strip will be tougher I suppose.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2021, 09:12:56 pm »

Hi Stuw,

I am away in my van at the moment (no computer) but I gave Rapier1 its first run today after the refit.

The strakes looked great in action and worked well.

The boat was also a little quieter too, so maybe the oversize strakes helped dampen the resonance as well?

Based on this I would definitely recommend that you fit them to both of your Javelin hulls.


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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #189 on: May 01, 2021, 10:18:10 am »

Hi Stuw,

I am away in my van at the moment (no computer) but I gave Rapier1 its first run today after the refit.

The strakes looked great in action and worked well.

The boat was also a little quieter too, so maybe the oversize strakes helped dampen the resonance as well?

Based on this I would definitely recommend that you fit them to both of your Javelin hulls.


Hi Stuw,

Looking at the plans and the build instructions for the Rapier, Javelin and Streaker,  none of them have strakes of any size or shape shown on the plans or mentioned in the building notes.

I think these models look more aggressive with them fitted and I am pleased that I have added them to my 39” LesRo hulls, but it looks like they were never part of the kit design, so adding them would be a personal choice.


Enjoy your weekend.


Bob.
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #190 on: May 02, 2021, 10:26:49 am »

Ready to (not) rumble!
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #191 on: May 04, 2021, 05:55:35 pm »

The latest "refresh" of my old restored Rapier1 ran very nicely following its re-launch on the Southport Club lake over the weekend.

The boat gets up and onto the plane very quickly and runs with only the rear half of the hull in the water at anything over 1/4 - 1/3 throttle, whilst maintaining a fairly level un-changing attitude over the waters surface.

When passing over waves and wakes at high speed a certain amount of "bobbing" follows briefly but soon settles down again to return to its nice level progress.

As I have not been able to see any other Rapier running since the first one that I saw (a low powered example over 50 years ago!)  I have no idea if this is the "normal" attitude that all of the Rapier models run at, so I am hoping to hear from any other Rapier owner who is still running his/her model at a "fairly brisk speed" (fast)  as mine looks more like an off-shore racer in action than a cabin cruiser !

When I first restored this model (from a wreck) I did notice that the pop shaft was shorter than the kit recommended length after I was able to buy a copy of the kit plan at a later date.

The rudder is also mounted further forward from the transom than the position shown on the plan (it is more like the position used on the Vic Smeed "Remora" design),  and although I am really pleased with the boat,  I do wonder if this "on the water" performance is related this non-standard use of a short prop shaft and forward mounted rudder?

Maybe the "correct length" prop shaft (as shown on the kit plans) would be less likely to get the hull up and onto the plane quite so readily, although the angle of the prop shaft looks to be unchanged and is still as shown on the plan.

I believe that the forward mounting position of the rudder is what gives Rapier1 its remarkably tight turning ability (this is very handy on a small lake or when taking fast evasive action).  I am also using a standard "large" size commercially available rudder, but that is not so different to the rudder shown on the plans so I don't think this has strayed too far away from the original design size or shape.

Last year I met someone at the Southport Club who told me that he had a Rapier at home and seeing mine perform had encouraged him to get his finished.  Sadly I have not see him since (or his Rapier), but this could be my best chance of seeing another Rapier and my first opportunity of seeing another one in action.........I live in hope!
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #192 on: May 05, 2021, 11:07:46 pm »

Bob,
So is the prop shaft not only shorter, but mounted further forward, or is it just a shorter length of shaft below the hull, placing the prop and therefore thrust more centrally along the waterline length?
If the prop and therefore thrust/propulsion was nearer the stern, then it wouldn't try to lift the whole hull up as well as push forward and would need the increase in speed along the hull, to raise onto the plane. Yes this would mean taking longer/more throttle/increased speed before coming up onto the plane, but would it alter the characteristics of the hull, especially when passing over a wake, I don't know.
Or, are the current characteristics caused by reduced weight compared to how it would have been with the intended power system(i.c or especially electric).


What do you reckon?


Will
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #193 on: May 06, 2021, 10:01:01 am »

Bob,
So is the prop shaft not only shorter, but mounted further forward, or is it just a shorter length of shaft below the hull, placing the prop and therefore thrust more centrally along the waterline length?
If the prop and therefore thrust/propulsion was nearer the stern, then it wouldn't try to lift the whole hull up as well as push forward and would need the increase in speed along the hull, to raise onto the plane. Yes this would mean taking longer/more throttle/increased speed before coming up onto the plane, but would it alter the characteristics of the hull, especially when passing over a wake, I don't know.
Or, are the current characteristics caused by reduced weight compared to how it would have been with the intended power system(i.c or especially electric).


What do you reckon?


Will


The prop shaft is shorter that shown on the LesRo kit plan and the rudder is further forward too - very similar to the layout used by Vic Smeed on his Remora design. The prop shaft is not very far forward inside the engine bay, the outer shaft only just passes through the "firewall" bulkhead to give as little unsupported overhang as possible.


If you scroll back to the pictures (above) of the interior of Rapier1 you will see that the brushless motor almost looks lost in the engine bay, and when compared to most of this space being taken up with the intended 40 - 61 size glow motor there would have been a lot more weight in this area and most of it would have been further forwards.


The wheelhouse cabin is where the fuel tank would have been positioned if the boat was ic powered. I fit two lightweight 2 cell LiPo cells here.  One is connected to power the boat and the other is carried to balance the hull equally either side of the keel centre-line. The ESC and RX are also mounted in this area, but they have no significant weight.


The rear cabin is almost empty as it only has a standard size steering servo along with four button magnets to retain a couple of small tools to use when changing a propeller or an alternative brushless motor if I want to do this when I am lakeside, but none of this adds up to any significant weight.


No ballast is carried in the hull - only the items listed above.


The design of the boat has a longer than average foredeck area and the section inside it (like most other model power boats) is "closed" so there is no access to what would be an ideal place to hide some ballast that could be used to see if this could give a more "nose down" attitude to the boat when it is at speed.


The boat looks good on the water - it is not running with the bows in the air and the stern below the surface - it runs (when at speed) with a very level attitude that is more or less parallel with the waters surface, but only the rear half of the hull is in the water. 


The curved "anhedral" shape of the boat and its deck line is unusual and is probably why the boat has the stance of an off-shore racer at speed rather than the more normal "cabin cruiser" shape of hull that has to "plough" its way through the water.


I may try adding some lead to the front of the engine bay to see what the difference would be if more of the hull was in the water when the boat is running at speed. I would be interested to find out if running with more of the hull in the water has any effect on the hulls ability to shrug-off any of the slight "nods" that the hull displays has after crossing a wake or a wave at speed.


As a matter of interest, when the boat is stationary is sits nice and level in the water and show none of the well know Fairey models tendencies to sit with a nose down attitude so maybe a little forward ballast of worth a try?
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #194 on: May 06, 2021, 01:26:30 pm »

Hi Zooma


Run the boat with only one battery as I am only use one in the Huntsman (4S 5000mah Bolt from Hobbyking).


Canabus
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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #195 on: May 06, 2021, 03:35:32 pm »

Went down the club again with the yachts this morning and seeing a boat on the water thought I recognise that shape! It was confirmed when I saw Stilleto on the side! Nice model with guard rails and other detailing.

Chap left soon as I got there so didn't get chance to ask about it. I will when I see him again.

I think it's only the Huntsman 31 that tends to sit nose down, due in part to the shape of the bow which doesn't offer much support.

Chris
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2021, 05:20:33 pm »

Hi Zooma


Run the boat with only one battery as I am only use one in the Huntsman (4S 5000mah Bolt from Hobbyking).


Canabus
 


I only run the boat with one LiPo Harry - the other is used to balance the boat either side of the keel centre-line.


Removing the spare LiPo would reduced a little weight in the middle of the hull and may help to increase the speed slightly, but I use lightweight 6000mah nano-tech or  5000mah nano-tech cells so I dont think it will make much difference......but I will try it.  :-))
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2021, 05:26:37 pm »

Went down the club again with the yachts this morning and seeing a boat on the water thought I recognise that shape! It was confirmed when I saw Stilleto on the side! Nice model with guard rails and other detailing.

Chap left soon as I got there so didn't get chance to ask about it. I will when I see him again.

I think it's only the Huntsman 31 that tends to sit nose down, due in part to the shape of the bow which doesn't offer much support.

Chris


A baby Rapier !

Please let me know if you see it run in the future.

I would like to know if it gets up onto the plane really quickly and if it runs with only the rear half of the hull in the water (assuming it is not just plodding along  ;) ).

The Stiletto may not share the same performance qualities as its bigger brother, but if it has a good power to weight ratio and it is driven at speed it may get up and plane quickly and ride the same too?
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #198 on: May 06, 2021, 08:54:33 pm »

When I was looking at the video link Stuw had sent to me with the pair of Javelins running around together, I noticed that the next video to come up on the "play list" was this one of a Rapier on the same coastal boating lake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTkmwMurBw

This Rapier is running in rougher water than Rapier1 was when it was on the comparatively smooth Southport Club lake at the weekend and it is not as fast so direct comparisons are not that easy to make, but it has a similar ride attitude to Rapier1, but the bows are a little lower in the water, so more of that boats hull is in the water.

Apart from being slower and in choppy water the main difference would be that this boat was running with an ic engine and so it would be heaver in the bows than Rapier1 as that only has a very small and lightweight out-runner in the engine bay.

The boats tendency to "nod" after a wave or wake was slightly less than Rapier1 and this may be due to its being heavier and having more of its hull in the water (as well as being quite a bit slower).

Hopefully this boats forward biased weight distribution and being overall heaver is an important difference so I will add some weight to the engine bay of Rapier1 before the next run to see if that makes a difference that will lower the ride height slightly and reduce the "after effect" of crossing a wave or wake by having more of the hull in the water.



Here is another link to a different Rapier in action:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmi0m6xYnTw

This is a nice model and it is a twin shaft variant and the two Graupner Speed 600BB motors shove it along quite nicely.

This Rapier is again slower than Rapier1 and is also running in choppy water, but its ride attitude is very similar but it does not ride quite as high out of the water and it does not rise up onto the plane as quickly. The may be partly due to the over-sized strakes that I have just fitted to Rapier1?

Again this will be a heavier boat than Rapier1 but it makes a very good reference for me to refer to and it is a good video of a nice Rapier in action........and those two motors sound really nice too!


This model was built from the last new Rapier kit to be sold.....but I have a new unbuilt Rapier kit in my workshop  - so my kit must be older, but it could be the last new Rapier to be built...........if and when I get around to it  ;)
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Rapier ? - 60's cabin cruiser
« Reply #199 on: May 06, 2021, 10:42:54 pm »

Bob,


The Rapier in the 2nd video (93) Lesro Rapier - YouTube  looks heavier in the water. It still picks up it's heals and takes off, but I suppose twin motors/props would cause both of those things.


I think you are definitely right to try some more weight in the boat, just to see what effects it has on it's attitude at all speeds and water conditions.


Yes, a lighter model will give you longer run times, so then it's all down to results of the test and how you want the boat to perform/act under way at varying speeds.


Will
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49" Precedent Perkasa
46" Aerokits Sea Queen
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34" Lesro Sportsman mk1
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20" Aerokits Fast Patrol Boat
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