Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!  (Read 10282 times)

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2020, 11:06:26 pm »


Not much done today, spent time with the kids in the garden getting a tan...


But this evening I did knock up the rudder, it’s a balanced rudder, simple construction, 2.5mm ply inner section behind and front of the rudder post, which I cut down to finish size, then I gave it a top and bottom edge cap with some lime wood, and gave it a skin coat in 0.4mm ply, after all that dried, I sanded it into shape, tapered the front edge etc... Finally gave it one last 0.4mm skin and again resanded the shape back in, making the rudder 3.5mm thick but bloody tough as nails! I will epoxy it before painting along with the rest of the hull.


I left the rudder post stuck out the base some what for a skeg attachment, I’m adamant at this point I do want to add one, it will tidy up the prop shaft a lot rather than having it just floating out there (although it doesn’t hang out very much) I just think it will be a more tidy look to the running gear long term.


The rudder measures 30x30m overall, with a slight top taper to make it look very square to the hull but to also give better clearance when it’s at its maximum rotation, I’m quite pleased how it’s turned out, usually I make rudders out of brass when they are this size just for simplicity, I just fancied doing one more normal looking at smaller scale for a change.




warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2020, 07:48:38 am »

And in keeping with the rest of the hull  O0
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2020, 08:12:42 pm »


This afternoon I started work on the skeg. Believe me it’s been a pain in the backside getting the shape correct and ensuring it was level and the rudder fitted in place, this is just simply due to how small the boat is and how big my hands are... non the less I think I’m at that point where it’s correct...


Above The prop shaft I slide a chunk of 6mm ply and squared it up, trimmed etc usual work needed and glued in place to the hull, the rest of the skeg is a lamination of 2 x3mm ply ( the curvature part was to small to risk my fingers at the fret saw using 6mm ply, so a lamination of 3mm was used as a stanly blade did the same job just less risk!)


This is the end result, it will be glued to the hull and shaft, and then to hide the shaft inside I’ll give it a skin of .5mm ply which will make it all pretty, finally a bit of p38 to clean up a few minor gaps and a rounded edge from skeg to hull, I still have to make up the detachable part of the skeg for the rudder but that part is just flat work and a few holes, nothing significantly difficult by any means.


The skeg is a little taller than planned, as it gives me a little adjustment on the rudder in height and play, I can make up a little stopper once in sure the rudder is in perfect position to the tube to stop any lateral slop, but also I had to account for prop angle as making it fit “perfectly” flush to the hull would have ment binding the prop or risk not having enough clearance should somthing get stuck between skeg and prop( weed, plastic bag, usualy lake rubbish) but for the most part I’m happy with it, I may have to adjust the skeg cutout in the stand as it’s a little taller but the stand has yet to get its foam pads so I will adjust if needs be.



Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2020, 12:02:12 am »


Finally finished the skeg for the most part, there are some seams and a small gap each side from the prop exit hole that need filling but that’s somthing to do closer to paint, but as you can see the skeg lines up correctly to the rudder, it’s currently got a scrap brass strip that I used for alignment, I’ll come up with something better tomorrow, on the whole slow progress but that was giant headache over with, but a good end result.


More tomorrow !




Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2020, 06:25:33 pm »


Been working on the detachable part of the skeg for rudder access today, I had another strip of 6mm brass laying about, but it is very flexible ( I normally use these strips as rubbing strakes on larger boats so flex is good for that job) but here flexibility isn’t suitable so I folded it in half and soldered the joint tight.
At the same time I also soldered in one of the brass grommets used to help secure servos, I use these a lot on projects as through holes/washers on boats where small screws are involved. Very useful at stopping me over tightening and tearing out paint.


This grommet was drilled out to 2.5 mill (basically a bit of brass stretching) to take the end of the rudder post.
I cleaned it up, then backed it with some lime wood, it will help when I finish the skeg capping to get everything level and add a little extra thickness to it.


For now I’ve mounted it with some servo screws but I will locate some counter sink brass wood screws in my box a little later to make it much tidier. But for now they work fine for holding the part in place while I work, good news is that I don’t need to adjust the stand either , my “guess” was practically spot on, lucky eh?! *Wink wink*


I still need to tidy up the skeg around the shaft as the skin is still oversize, I’ll round this off with a capping edge so the brass bushing is less pronounced, I’ll finish up the rest of the skegs cap, which I think I’ll extend possibly to the bow, and give the boat some sort of keel look, might help with a bit of tracking... I’ll see how it looks first before committing to it.






Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2020, 10:12:09 pm »


Finished up this evening by cutting and shaping the skeg capping strip, it’s tapered at best point on the hull curve although not flush fully with the hull as the skeg itself was, this is due to the rudder height. I opted not to extend this part to the bow, thought it looked odd during test fit. Just needs some p38 on the seams to smooth it all over and to find a couple of stainless screws that fit better than what I’m using currently, I may have to order some, so I’ll add that to my screw order I still have to place for another project.
I’ll finish the capping of the prop shaft exit tomorrow and get it all tidied up then commence with the internals before deck.





Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2020, 08:04:11 pm »


My endured battle with the skeg addition to the hull comes to an end finally (not forgetting to p38 seams and such but that’s fine during final hull prep) I’ve added the prop shafts capping plate to the end and profiled it, I’ve also attached some lime wood to the detachable skeg as it’s width was under size, and I’ve profiled those as well to fit the edges of the skeg seamlessly, looks good to be honest, filler and paint will hide the different materials used, now I can move into the running gear fit out inside the hull before deck goes down, this has worked out well for timing as I’m waiting for my M4 taps to arrive (hopefully tomorrow since today’s a bank holiday) with those here I’ll be able to mock up the motors position and angle with a solid state coupling, and also mount the servo. I will need to buy some ball joints for the rudder linkage, given the angles I’m forced to work with, no big deal but I didn’t think that far ahead on purchases, fortunately it’s something I can do later, as I have material I can knock up as a temp to do the job before final fitting.



Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2020, 09:17:38 pm »


Not much done today, ended up having to relign the lathes headstock it was cutting holes at strange angles, I think I hadn’t done the headstock screw up tight enough so the vibrations over time had allowed the head to move slightly, took me a good two hours messing about getting it to realign correctly.... with that said I aimed to make up the prop shaft coupling today and three attempts later I finally made one up that’s spot on...


It’s tiny in size 6.5mm in diameter, with motor spindle m3 hole,  tapped for grub screws, the photo shows the screws very long.. they are the only spare ones I could find which are 8mm long, I will look in my spares box later for some 3/4mm ones so they don’t sit so pronounced, it’s a minor Thing. Even with them slightly long I doubt it will “unbalance the motor” seeing how there is one each side.


And yes I could have made the coupling thicker... but I used a scrap bit of 8mm stainless rather than cutting into my new stock, so it’s diameter was fixed from cleaning up surface marks from the vice. Long as it works all that matters and it was free! (Almost if you discount spending £10 on new taps, I know I will, it will make me feel better. Haha)


I’ve yet to tap the internal thread to M4 for the shaft as the taps have still yet to arrive in today lack of postman... I think it’s reduced service at present so I can only shrug as to when I might see them. But the coupling is pretty much done... so I can start mocking up the electronic tray for servo and motor, talking on rudder... I had to order a tiller for the rudder shaft, I literally had no more spares in the box for a 2.5mm shaft, but that worked to my advantage as I also ordered an adjustable linkage set since the servo was to be further to the front than the plan states, so I need to work as a slight angle to get the linkage to work correctly, the linkage set, is not a ball joint system that I would normally use, it’s one of the fast electrics exterior rudder with the spigot on the end, this I think will allow me to fit the linkage almost flat in the boat since I can mount it upside down.


Anyway lots of plans very little action... roll eyes.... have faith, my plans usually all come together in the end..







Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2020, 09:58:06 pm »


Couldn’t find any shorter grub screw so I just chucked the whole thing back in the lathe and cut down the ones fitted to the coupling size... nice and tidy now Mwhahaha.


And yes the Allen key still fits perfectly well and deep into them! The photo is misleading a little.




Tug Fanatic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,480
  • Location: England
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2020, 09:03:41 am »

Enjoying the build - and yes supplies are very frustrating at the moment.

What thickness ply do they use for these kits?
Logged

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2020, 09:41:58 am »

The kit is made of a mix of 2and 3mm ply

Tug Fanatic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,480
  • Location: England
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2020, 10:25:08 am »

The kit is made of a mix of 2and 3mm ply

Thank you.

In the pictures the difference in the thickness of the ply between the frame and the skin looks a lot more than 3mm v 2mm. I am pleased that I asked.
Logged

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2020, 10:43:05 am »

Frame work is all 3mm, skins for the hull, deck can hatch etc are 2mm this kit is actually bigger than the Q1 so space isn’t as much of a premium of that of the Q1 this measures 290mm in length and it’s 145mm at its widest point, I think the q1 is about 1/4 smaller overall. Martin will know the dimensions if you ask.


The size difference has allowed me to make up custom parts for this kit, it’s one of the reasons why I picked this over the Q1, this kit is also all wood (accept the window frames) which works well for me as I really hate plastic card, which the Q1 from the deck and up are all made of...


Nothing personal against plastic card it’s just a brittle and fragile  material over time, and I’m quite heavy handed, wooden boats tend not to die in my hands as most joints are stronger with modern wood glues than plastic welds.


Wood has its own issues as it is through warping, but I’ve been working with wood my entire adult life (bench wook and joiner) it’s a material I’ve never had issues with Through experience and care.




Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2020, 09:01:29 pm »


The servo/rudder linkages showed up today... still waiting on my taps to finish the damn coupling, weirdly I ordered the taps a week before the rudder hardware, thinking at this point it’s lost in the post :(


Anyway since the linkages showed up I was able to mock up the tiller, I had to grind out a groove in the rear bulkhead a little to give me some extra clearance, nothing major, this is more so as  cut down the tiller to the middle hole as the end was far to long to even use, I may still move it to the closest hole to the pivot yet, but I won’t know that until I get the servo/motor tray fixed and can test the throw, I have option on the servo arm as is... so right now it’s just positioning at a rough guess, but as you can see this is where I choose to mount the servo, and off the photo you can see I also have access to it fully, the tiller arm can be reached but only the grub screw not the rods adjustment because it’s mounted upside down at present (best clearance, right side up fouls the deck.... this I maybe able to resolve but honestly removing the grub screw and flipping out for adjustment is easy enough since you have full servo access anyway... no biggy but a deck limitation I’m trying to reduce issues with for this...)


Nothing else done until my taps arrive *taps foot* more once they arrive which I would bet won’t be until Monday at this rate *sigh*






warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2020, 12:07:43 pm »

If the servo only rotates through 90 deg, then the throw will be 45 deg forward and backwards, then on top of that would be the trim allowance, providing that both arms are the same length, a long arm on the servo will increase the throw at the tiller (but I bet you know all that anyway  ;D )
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

coch y bonddu

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 376
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Bethesda
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2020, 12:49:54 pm »

warspite tbh i would not have thoughy this one will need a lot of rudder throw due to it's length could be wrong though

Dave

Logged

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2020, 12:53:25 pm »

Lol okay...


When I mean adjust the throw... I meant that you can change the throw by changing hole positions on both servo arms and tiller... You can get a lot or a little throw depending the positions you set on your arms... you can have a short servo movement and a long tiller movement if the linkage is set at specific angles relative to the mounting holes...
And it’s still 45 degree servo movement... but I bet you knew that *face palm*

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2020, 01:58:55 pm »

And it’s still 45 degree servo movement... but I bet you knew that *face palm*


OOPS, sorry didn't mean to offend,


Years ago whilst working for Seddon Atkinsons Oldham drawing office, a query came in as to why the engineers were having to modify the linkage on the Allison automatic gearbox for T5 trucks, I realized that the arm when fitted sat vertical, the cable came in from the left and attached to the arm to an adjustable stud (the cable being similar to that of a bike brake line had a cyclinder casting like end), this stud being adjustable was in a slot, the slot was horizontal and so over time the vibration shook the stud along the slot, the gears worked by counting the gradients along the fed out cable and the count started to work at about 16 to about 38, anything before 16 was a fault as was anything after 38, the distance between 16 and 38 wasn't very big about 19mm and up to 24mm.


So when it was fitted to the lever the count was somewhere starting at 16-18 and they would adjust along the slot until it was selecting 1st gear, as the lever on the gearbox was sprung loaded when the gears were selected it would pull the cable and it would rotate anticlockwise, the count would increase, but what they found, after a while the stud would move to the right along the slot, the count when the lever went back to vertical would then be less than the 16 and they could not select 1st gear and you had to select 2nd to start in 1st.


I figured out the slot was wrong, it should have been vertical so that when they adjusted the cable, it's position in relation to pivot of the selector allowed for the distance traveled by the cable to be increase or decreased, as the arc in which it traveled was important at giving a consistent cable movement (the production of the electronics in the selector meant that 16-38 could be over a range of either 19 mm up to 24 mm, it was 1992 and it was a new fangled piece of equipment). If the slot was vertical the pull on the lever meant the vibration didn't have the same effect at allowing the stud to move, the engineers were drilling a new hole in the lever to keep the stud in the same place, but they had to drill the hole such that it allowed the range to be within the 16 to 38 area and that was hit and miss due to the tolerance on the cable travel.
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2020, 05:25:47 pm »


Finally my taps arrived in the post, later this evening I’ll tap the coupling!!!


Haven’t been able to really progress without this job done... anyway figured I’ll share my excitement over some M4 taps...




Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2020, 07:03:10 pm »

Anyway made it to the workshop after dinner to cut the damn tap....


Yay me... that was easy! Good quality tap too.. I might get a full set of these for £100 much better than my old ones! Guess it goes to show you get what you pay for, this M4 set was £10 3 taps and the drill bit suited.


Anyway drilled the 3.2 mill hole in the lathe depth to suit the thread still on the shaft, normal tap then used bottom plug tap to finish, as the hole for the motor is only 3mm. Both operations I did by hand turning the chuck made light work of the cuts.. and as you can see the threads are very well cut and the coupling now sits on the shaft correctly.
The motor at the moment has the kits motor mount plate attached to use as a guide to making up my own motor mount, I may indeed use this front plate from the kit and make side mounts to fit.. seams a waste to not use it anyway now I can finally crack on with the rest of the motor mounting tray. All of which will be detachable and can pop through the deck hatch for easy maintenance and adjustment which will be far better than the kits guide book suggests.


More to come very soon now!!!!!





Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2020, 11:12:34 pm »


I’ve started on the electronics plate to mount the motor and servo to.. the plate is quite long it stretched from the first bulkhead to the 3rd but is only as wide as the hatch with the combing so it can be lifted and slotted out easy enough, I’ve had to also slot the motors side edges to allow it to slide back into the bow so the coupling can be screwed on, which is turn slides the plate forward to its end position which will lock up against some plates on the edge of the 3rd bulkhead, it will need some screws to hold in place but not before I add an edge the plate as a support each side where the electronics are suppose to sit, as you can see I have plenty of room to fit the servo to the tray and the other side for the esc, (the motor is just screwed with wires one side for now, I’ll rotate the motor the other way a little later).


The motor mount uses the original kits front mount which was tacked to the main plate in its correct angle, once the superglue went off I was able to unscrew the entire plate with motor and then create and fit some side mounts which have also been reinforced internal side of the motor, I will also reinforce the edges of all joints with some grp, it’s a little overkill but the mount won’t be shaking itself apart any time soon!


Tomorrow I will cut the slot for the servo, and also look to create a battery tray between bulkhead 3 and 4 which although is way under the deck I can still slide a 2s or a smaller 3s lipo under with my fingers, I’ll work on that before committing, the other option will be to slide the battery into the bow, but will only be room for a 2s, ( the original plan allows for the battery where the motor currently sits ) I think best option maybe to fit it back depending on rudder linkage clearance which I won’t know until servo is mounted “all very much up in the air at present” but I’ll come up with something appropriate.




Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2020, 11:46:47 am »


I haven’t done much last couple of days, I’ve been battling a COPD flare up, for those who suffer know it can knock you for 6 at times, for those who don’t.... don’t smoke.... lesson there somewhere I think...anyway I avoided my dusty workshop for a few days instead of aggravating it further.


None the less today I got the workshop and cut the slot for the servo. I have had to add a riser block so the servo sits a little higher so it’s not resting on the slope of the hull, this was expected given the servos depth and the location of the plate, but also gave me more material to screw into for mounting the servo. I also drilled a hole for the servos cable as there was no where for it to come out from given the way the mounting plate works.


I’ve also decided to keep the cables of the motor to this side just for simplicity.
I’ve mocked up the linkage and cut it roughly to length, I still have a good inch of further adjustment if needs be, and I’m opting to have a short servo throw but long tiller throw, as normal testing doesn’t throw the rudder as far a I would like, no biggy normal testing until it’s where I want it.




Tugtower

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Owner of The RCMB Forum
  • Location: Workshop. S.Wales.UK
    • RCMB Forum
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2020, 02:51:09 am »


You all remember my little issue with the frames at the start of this blog right?


Well what I left out when dealing with them was I actually messaged the seller and complained like a true Brit, the reply wasnt fast surprising with a promise to send me replacement frames.. by the time they had said this I had already fixed the issue and moved on...


Low and behold today not holding much stock in the promise of replacement parts look what showed up in the post... the two sheets of frames!


So I’m at this point where I’m deciding if I want to template out all the parts I haven’t used, and ones I have to make a 2nd boat (It’s only the hull base and sides I’ve used so far so shouldn’t be that hard ) ... maybe in a totally different style to what this will be... suggestions on a post card....





Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23,365
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Chinese mini tug the Q3 kit!
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2020, 03:24:14 am »


Hey TugT,

Both the Q1 & the Q3 seem to be out of stock everywhere now!


 M
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!" -  Visit the Mayhem FaceBook Groups!  &  Giant Models

Taranis

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,300
  • Balne Moor MBC
  • Location: Yorkshire
Logged
ANDY
You’ll only know your best effort if you don’t give up.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.101 seconds with 21 queries.