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Author Topic: Vic Smeeds River Princess  (Read 3929 times)

frazer heslop

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Vic Smeeds River Princess
« on: May 14, 2020, 11:10:17 pm »

A wee build log for my River Princess, Those expecting a master class on plank on frame or of a nervous please look away now
With thanks to Mosfet for the info
Just to get things rolling a little video of her simple engine running after much head scratching as its a  D/A single engine that I wanted to be self starting
The whole build is from scrap and some very old dirty ply found down the back of a cupboard so some of the techniques may seem a little strange or at least not the norm on the machining front
Keep well
cheers
frazer
https://youtu.be/K7TOqbwQiE4
 
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DBS88

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 05:09:24 pm »

Frazer, well done it sounds lovely, nice tidy looking engine
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Mosfets

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 08:49:48 pm »

Good to see you are making a start.


Love the engine.


I will follow with interest.


Adrian
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 10:25:42 pm »

Many thanks, Just need to figure out pics as Iv just lost the engine build post
Its been a long time since Iv posted builds on any forum so some relearning to do I guess
cheers
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mrzippy

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 11:47:07 am »

Hi Frazer,
Intrigued after watching your great video with ref to "Kick Start"
am I correct in thinking the small pin extension on the steam control lever is acting on the flywheel in some way to make the engine self starting? something more than steam pressure alone is flicking the engine into life??

I'm looking into alternatives to Kitchen Rudder for the Drake Tail -
and recently found the below video of a mini servo adapted to a crude self start mechanism you may find interesting -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMUj9Z5CGA4&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3f0gfITOjZsM1QOKN_jUkTx1-ekdAcTtyEoCnhsJ2Q0bhi21Uhwtidel4

After watching the above video I thought I had the majic answer -
make the servo work in both directions and you have forward and reverse, coupled with his r/c pressure valve for speed,
BUT the piston valve Saito in only runs in one rotten direction !
Now regretting not going for my second choice - a single Stuart DA oscillator where I could adapt your kick start idea
or what's in the video to control the model rather than building a fiddly KR, any thoughts spring to mind ??  regards Paul
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 04:19:29 pm »

Hi, Yes that is how it works. The idea came from a 1930s Model Engineer and a French company made a double acting piston valved engine although Iv not seen anything from them for sometime
The engine in the wee video is a bit rough and ready as it is made from scrap and the next one for a boat similar to youre idea will be made from new stock allowing me to do away with the external pipes and gubins
The way the idea works is .As the engine comes to a stop the pin extension stalls the engine so that the flywheel pin is in hard contact with the for/reverse pin
I made the for/reverse porting a tad too long at 100 degrees 90 may have been better but now sure on that one until I get some stock
The engine has to be stalled by the for/reverse unit or the idea simply wont work. Its only just on port at the stall spot so not crashing to a stop
The whole project is going to be made from bits n bobs that have been round the shop for the last 30 years or so to use them up .Then I will have a good clean up and a reorganisation
The hull is as rough as a badgers backside and I had the same problem as you with resin that would not go fully off and stayed tacky .It took two days the scrape it back of
Is the Japanese engine single or double acting ?
Cheers and thanks for the interest



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belli

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 08:25:36 pm »

Please post some pictures of this little engine, I can't seem to get this figured out...
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mrzippy

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 09:20:45 pm »

Hi Frazer,
Thank you for the interesting reply, it explains perfectly how your engine functions and what a great idea it is - 'simple' is best !

Re the Saito I'd assumed it was single acting (none of their literature actually mentions what action it is !) and I'm no expert,
but on Youtube this guys video description states "single cylinder double action" ?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b35n573WGho

Also another video by 'Uesakasan', Japan's Saito expert modifies the flywheel with a groove, that I'm guessing switches the port timing allowing reverse??
there's an engineering drawing and machined parts around 15 seconds in - video goes on to show another electric barring engine used to change rotation etc.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seayBrDjgxY
or is there another 'outside the box' method.

re resin - intense heat seems to set if off ok, I blasted mine with a hair dryer almost to the point of catching onfire !
the surface changes to a hard gloss when finally set.  cheers Paul


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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 10:34:12 pm »

Hi belli, the pics for the build need resizing or I need to find a hosting site .My computer ability is rather poor as is my patience with the things
On the front of the engine is the forward/reverse valve on the bottom of the disc a pin hangs down vertically
On the flywheel are two pins that are aligned for TDC and BDC so as the arm goes to the stop position one of the flywheel pins hits the controllers pin and stops the engine .To restart the pin in the arm pushes the engine from TDC or BDC enough to allow steam into the cylinder it also has a larger flywheel fitted that may be helping I dont know
Its not  my idea and Iv seen it used several times . I think there is some more info  on the French forum  BloOOo
Iv put a couple of pics up on this site that may help
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/self-starting-single-d-a-wobbler.32169/


Hi Mr Zippy

The mods look like a slip eccentric and the motor starts the engine and moves the eccentric to the right position
I think George is going to contact you soon with some info about a mod he made on a similar engine
Try swapping inlet for exhaust to see if she will run tuther way
There is some drawings knocking about for La Mouetta an open launch that uses a Wilesco plant and  has a motor driven device fitted for reversing the motor
I tried heating the resin with no luck or maybe Im just to impatient . I like the look of the twin Midwest boat you posted a link for although it will be a single
Iv a soft spot for these boats and have fancied one for sometime after seeing Reciproca sailing
cheers
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belli

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 10:51:40 pm »

Hi Frazer,
Does your PC have PC Paint?  All Win machines should have it, that's what I use and can offer some pointers if you need.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 11:12:31 pm »

Hi belli, it probably has but Iv no idea where they've hidden it. I will get it sorted .I simply dont find these things easy and Im locked in so cannot ask a teenager before they forget
cheers
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ooyah/2

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 11:22:25 pm »

Hi Frazer,
Intrigued after watching your great video with ref to "Kick Start"
am I correct in thinking the small pin extension on the steam control lever is acting on the flywheel in some way to make the engine self starting? something more than steam pressure alone is flicking the engine into life??

I'm looking into alternatives to Kitchen Rudder for the Drake Tail -
and recently found the below video of a mini servo adapted to a crude self start mechanism you may find interesting -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMUj9Z5CGA4&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3f0gfITOjZsM1QOKN_jUkTx1-ekdAcTtyEoCnhsJ2Q0bhi21Uhwtidel4

After watching the above video I thought I had the majic answer -
make the servo work in both directions and you have forward and reverse, coupled with his r/c pressure valve for speed,
BUT the piston valve Saito in only runs in one rotten direction !
Now regretting not going for my second choice - a single Stuart DA oscillator where I could adapt your kick start idea
or what's in the video to control the model rather than building a fiddly KR, any thoughts spring to mind ??  regards Paul


Hi Paul,
You can make a rotten Saito single cylinder engine to reverse, I made mine reverse many years ago but can't remember if it was self starting, the video of the engine self starting on you-tube with a small servo is a good idea and the flywheel could be knurled to give the rubber tip on the servo some grip.


4- pics of the engine that I had so if it's the same as your all that is required is to change over the steam and exhaust using this type of valve.


George.
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rhavrane

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 08:04:01 am »

Bonjour,
Other solution to make a monocylinder become self starting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AasvhDdzG0
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Raphaël
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mrzippy

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 01:09:50 pm »

Hi Guys, Thanks everyone for the generous info -
Frazer apologies we've taken your thread down another path, perhaps some of the above is deletable? should you wish to remove.
George I'd said rotten in jeste, not having a pop at the Saito, it's a wonderful little jewel of engineering -
and complete/assembled/imported inc. displacement lubricator - less than half the price of a Stuart ST Oscillator KIT -
seems amazing value around £90.
it's an altogther smaller and simpler version of yours - a tiny piston valve away from a basic oscillator,
supplied with black rubber pipe for conections.

Finally powered mine up with a large hypodermic syringe and surprise surprise it DOES reverse by swapping inlet for exhaust ! Yippee!!
Therefore I'm now thinking - a valve along the lines of Georges combined with the modified servo self starter/reverser and I'm in buisness?,
none of the hassles of Kitchen Rudder !  could anyone point me in the direction of said valve in the uk please?
I'm ok with silver soldering and brass compression fittings should they be required etc.

Below should be a pic of the Saito T1 for Georges ref. - cheers Paul
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ooyah/2

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 02:05:37 pm »

Bonjour,
Other solution to make a monocylinder become self starting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AasvhDdzG0


This idea can be done with a slide valve engine like the Stuart 10V but not with the Saito Piston Valve engine.


George.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 02:08:49 pm »

No problem taking the thread offtrack all the info is useful and its nice to see how others get around the problems
For a reversing valve I would think one of the Mamod loco supply guys would have one or  the toy engine suppliers .I have seen them for sale just cannot remember who it was.
Hi George thats a nice little engine
Just figuring the boiler out at the moment and need to do the calcs for the flue well once I find the formula . Its only going to run at 25psi so wont need to be that heavy a gauge
Keep well and safe
cheers
 
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ooyah/2

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 08:56:16 pm »

Paul,  P.M. sent


George.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 03:48:47 pm »

Trying pics,
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belli

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 09:10:42 pm »

Hi Frazer,

More photos please!  Could you make a sketch with a few of the sizes?
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 09:30:35 pm »

Hi belli, no problems once I get organised %%
I didnt make any drawings as it was a suck it n see job as will be the 2 1/2 inch dia boiler .I will measure as we go . The whole project is made from left over bits n bobs and what ever I can find. It is just to get back into steam boat building again and to give me something to do
It will be an ideal wee boat to chuck in the car and just go and sail
cheers
frazer
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 09:44:35 pm »

The keel is from some scrap Oak that was destined to be used for firewood. I had to join the keel as the timber was to short a common problem with this build
The joints are a bit rough nothing a bit of two pack glue cannot handle
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 10:09:07 pm »

As the glue on the keel was drying .I made the cylinder top cover from a bit of left over brass plate
This couldn't be held in a normal chuck so a super glue chuck was used
Its just a bit of stock faced and then the material for the head is super glued on its an adaptation of the old wax chuck or it could have been friction turned
cheers
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2020, 10:36:19 pm »

A simple jig was made and planking started and it all went well until plank 6 per side .When turning the bilges the whole lot went awry and started throwing the planks from the formers. I re cut frormer 4 to make the planks spring back onto the fromers .
Still ended up with the hull been 3/8 wider than it should have been due to this problem. When I built River Princess I used 14 planks per side and did not have this problem. All part of the fun I guess
Whilst the glue was drying on the planks the engine was progressed .The bottom cover was built up and a glue chuck used to make sure the glands hole was concentric with the flange
cheers
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frazer heslop

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2020, 09:09:09 am »

Just playing with an hosting site
Oh well back to the drawing board
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belli

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Re: Vic Smeeds River Princess
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2020, 02:13:52 pm »

Pardon?
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