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Author Topic: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic  (Read 3205 times)

raflaunches

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Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« on: May 15, 2020, 10:31:44 AM »

Hi everyone

With the lockdown affecting us all and I have a bit more time at work (at times!) adopting new shift patterns to allow for social distancing, I decided to buy a kit to build at work in my Brize Norton Barrack Block. I decided on the Manxman kit which I have eyed up since it was released about 15 years ago. after a nice chat with Ron he sold me a prototype kit with new laser cut parts for the superstructures and decks replacing the the old but familiar pre-printed plastic that we have grown to be accustomed to from Deans Marine. There were a few corrections required but this is why he asked if I could trial fit the new parts so when it becomes available later this year your versions will be okay.

A bit of history firstÖ

HMS Manxman was one of the Abdiel class Fast Minelayer used famously in the Second World War. The class were split into two sub-classes, the first four: Abdiel, Manxman, Welshman, and Latonia were armed with three twin four inch guns whilst the later two vessels, Apollo and Ariadne only had two. They were ordered after experience in WW1 and a couple of failed attempts to produce a fast minelayer (HMS Adventure) between the wars. The Royal Navy ordered the first four ships in 1938, with a further two acquired as part of the War Emergency Programme
. They were specifically designed for the rapid laying of minefields in enemy waters, close to harbours or sea lanes. As such they were required to be very fast and to possess sufficient anti-aircraft weaponry to defend themselves if discovered by enemy aircraft.
A large load of up to 150 mines was required to be carried under cover, therefore a long, flushdecked hull with high freeboard was required. The mines were laid through doors in the sterns; the ships carried their own cranes for loading.
In size these ships were almost as long as a cruiser but laid out much like a large destroyer but the three straight funnels were an instant identifying feature.  Welshman was disguised as the French super destroyer ĎLeopardí with her funnels being modified with funnel caps and suitable paint work to change her appearance. Top speed was specified as 40 knots (74 km/h). To achieve this they were given a full cruiser set of machinery and with an installed output of 72,000 shaft horsepower (54,000 kW) on two shafts, they made 39.75 knots (73.62 km/h) light and 38 knots (70 km/h) deep load. To put this into perspective, the contemporary Town-class cruisers had 80,000 shp (60,000 kW) and a full load displacement of 12,980 tons, just short of four times that of the Abdiels.
The ships were initially to be armed much as destroyers, with three twin HA/LA Mark XIX mounts for QF 4-inch (100 mm) L/45 Mark XIV guns, with an elevation of 70į, in 'A', 'B' and 'X' positions, a quadruple "multiple pom-pom" mounting Mark VIII for the QF 2pdr Mk VIII and a pair of quadruple 0.5in Vickers Machine Guns. Wartime modifications involved adding a Type 279 radar at the masthead, a primitive metric wavelength air warning set, later replaced by a Type 286 then aType 291, as they became available. A Type 285 was fitted to the rangefinder-director on the bridge, this was a metric set and could provide target ranging and bearing information. The centimetric Type 272, a target indication radar with plan position indicator (PPI), was fitted to the front leg of the foremast. Following the loss of Latona to air attack, the surviving ships were re-armed to remedy the shortcomings in anti-aircraft defence. Six single Oerlikon 20mm cannons were initially added on P Mark III pedestal mountings, although these were later replaced by powered twin Mark V mountings. Ariadne and Apollo had two twin Mark IV "Hazemeyer" mountings for Bofors 40mm guns sited amidships, replacing the pom-pom in 'Q' position, and these mounts carried their own Type 282 Radar for target ranging; Ariadne had an additional "Hazemeyer" mounting in 'B' position, replacing the 4-inch guns. In July 1945, Ariadne was refitted in the United States for far eastern service, when the Bofors mounts were replaced by American pattern models (Mark I) with off-mounting "simple tachymetric directors" (STD) fitted with Type 282 and the Oerlikon mounts regunned with Bofors guns (this combination was known as the "Boffin").

Information from Wikipedia and Very Special Ships by Arthur Nicholson

The build so far has concentrated on the new laser cut parts which is why the usual running gear has not been fitted yet. The two main deck pieces are new laser cut items which I trial fitted with a little bit of trimming required at the stern and bow ends by a couple of millimetres just to sit nicely inside the GRP hull.
The forward superstructure is made up from laser cut  parts with the forward gun blast shields and side screens. The main bridge and crew shelter fit nicely together and the the strange boxes behind the superstructure are the RDF cabin and the Engine Room Vent which were slightly modifed to fit. The bridge wings or signal platforms I managed were fun and I left overnight to completely set the glue to ensure no mis-alignments. The kit is also perfect for super detailing which I will show later on once I have confirmed that all the new parts fit without any problems. The fittings pack is certainly comprehensive and I will show in the next update so you can see the 4 inch gun mounts and derrick bases. Enjoy.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 02:41:12 PM »


I built the Airfix kit of this ship years ago and was impressed with the performance then.


You have made a great start Nick. I'm looking forward to the next instalment  :-))
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Rob47

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 09:50:29 PM »


Nick
Look forward to this build, always fascinated me as a group of ships.


Sunny Brize, not far from me.


Bob
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raflaunches

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 12:53:43 PM »

A bit more work done, aft superstructure is now built up and three funnel halves temporarily placed to see how it looks. Very enjoyable build so far with very little adjustment on the new laser cut parts.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 08:41:07 PM »


Are those halves of the funnels Nick? Grp I presume??


Looking bobbydazzlious :)
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raflaunches

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 09:12:21 PM »

Thanks Ian


Certainly enjoying the build and Iíve got some new pictures thanks to Allnightin which will help with some detailing.
The funnel halves are vacform items which cut very nicely, just got to glue them together.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2020, 06:42:28 PM »

That's good to hear as Vac formed kits can be challenging. I built a model of an Albacore some years back (Fleet Air arm got to drop nasty things on the DAK when their carriers were in Alex  :-) ) and that was actually quite fun. I scratch built some bits like struts because they were too one sided in vac plastic. Keep up the good work old chap :)
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raflaunches

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2020, 07:35:49 PM »

I donít mind vacform items any more, Iíve built a few aircraft kits now and got used to how you cut and glue them together. Both forward funnels on my Invincible are entirely vacform modified items from a Dreadnought kit.
Bit more work on Manxman this week coming as Iíll be on half shifts so Iíll be working on the kit on Tuesday and Thursday providing I donít get called in to work of course!
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Georgeconna

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2020, 10:55:10 AM »

Excellent, Delighted some one is making this, It was one ship that caught my eye on the Deans Marine web site especially the colour scheme.


I'll grab my pop corn and pull up a chair if you don't mind.

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ballastanksian

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »

Excellent, Delighted some one is making this, It was one ship that caught my eye on the Deans Marine web site especially the colour scheme.


I'll grab my pop corn and pull up a chair if you don't mind.



Too right, as many of these builds are epics  :}
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mudway

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2020, 01:11:24 AM »

A possible source of extra income for Deans could be in 1/72 scale. Christian in Gib does the hull in that scale.


Could there be a market for 1/72 superstructures if it means just dialling the cutter by 1/3rd to cut at 1/72?
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2020, 04:14:00 PM »

1:96 is smaller than 1:72. The change factor required is 1.33.  :-))
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2020, 02:01:08 AM »

1:96 is smaller than 1:72. The change factor required is 1.33.  :-))


Dialling as in dialling up be 1/3 which is what the Shapeway guys do for those of us who build 1/72!
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2020, 10:45:29 AM »

Good looking boat the Manxman. I too am building one. although i think yours is going a lot better than mine has lol.. Im up to starting the railings now. all radio gear is installed. and some of the painting has been done. If i could work out how to post a pic or two i would show. but I dont want to impose from the main man's build log here lol


I will be watching this build with interest,
Ian
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raflaunches

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2020, 06:23:01 PM »

Hi Ian


I have PM'd you and hopefully helped to answer your question. Keep and eye on this thread over the weekend as I'll give a visual example of my explanation.
Glad you like what you are seeing, the new laser cut parts are very good, I've had to correct some dimensions for Ron but that was the point of the trial build for him. I've almost finished the plastic laser cut parts and will start detailing soon with fittings and the extra bits and pieces I intend to scratch build from plastic card scrap and wire. The Abdiel class minelayer is a very handsome vessel and I have always had a liking for them but only recently I decided to make one.
Keep up your excellent work and I hope to see your model one day.
All the best


Nick
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pokherman

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2020, 08:17:00 AM »

I hope the Main man dont mind me doing so. delete if its too far.


I just thought i would show my effort so far.. I'll post a separate topic if people like, to show what I have also done with my kit ? being that mine was the none updated kit.


Looks like you had a easier time building the super structures lol. Although the plastic card was printed on, I had to do all the cutting etc myself.


My farther has brought a new updated Nubian kit from deans. we have had our issues with the new lazer cut parts etc, but Ron is a Top bloke and adjustments have been made and now we are pressing on with it. and its not turning out too bad.
Anyway. let me know if you lot think i should post about my kit.. I wont do a build log it will just be mostly pictures for all to pick holes in lol.. Im no where near as good as most peoples efforts ive seen on here, and i consider myself a complete novice when it comes to rc boats.. probably why its taking me so long!! :}



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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2020, 08:55:07 AM »

Hi Ian


Great to see youíve got your photos uploaded :-))


Iím think youíre being very modest- your work is excellent and I know many modellers would aspire to that standard of build and paint.
Keep up the excellent job
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pokherman

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2020, 09:14:02 AM »

Hi Ian


Great to see youíve got your photos uploaded :-))


Iím think youíre being very modest- your work is excellent and I know many modellers would aspire to that standard of build and paint.
Keep up the excellent job


Thank you for your kind words.. But believe it or not. it is my first war ship build..  Im thinking i might take on something like the IOWA class next, but thats another story.. might be out of my league.. Ill do another post like i said, and let peps pick holes lol.. to me my boat looks a little too clean, what with the lines etc. maybe its just me,, Like i said, ill let people judge for them selves lol..


It will be interesting to see how you install and see what you are going to motorise.. I have the turrets moving and the pom poms. The top radar will go round, although the real one only rotated left and right. I have servo morphs on the turrets to slow them down, and me being me did something different to help with the turrets rotation.. I used a toothed pully system i thought up. rather than just mounting the servo underneath the turrets, my thoughts were what if the servo break? how do i get it out. and also that the standard servos dont really turn that far, without modifying or buying a winch servo ( expensive ) most servos will only turn 180 in full travel, so i used a large pully on the servo and a much smaller one on the turret, connected with a 3m toothed belt, it meant i could move the servo to a place i could remove it if i ever had to, using the pulleys added to the amount of rotation you would get from the servo.. any way, the pictures will give it a better explanation. and i still have a long way to go.


Still Im looking forward to seeing your progress with the new kit .  :-))


And thank-you for your help with the picture upload, simple really lol..


Ian
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2020, 02:07:50 PM »

Hi Ian


Iíll keep everyone update with my build which usually happens during the weekdays for this model as it lives in my barrack block.
Hopefully youíll be able to see my explanation looks like in practice with the attached photos Iíve just done.
It takes a bit of practice to get the heat and the amount of pressure so Iíd practice a couple of stanchions on some spare plastic card before touching the model. Iíve placed my practice piece on my HMS Invincible model so you can see what I meant about which way the stanchions are positioned compared the wire running the length of the deck side.
I hope this helps.
All the best


Nick
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pokherman

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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2020, 02:32:20 PM »

Hello Nick.. thanks again. It explains a lot. One other question.. it you look at the end of the brass photo etch. Next to the stanchions. You will c another set that have another leg as such.. where do these go? Are they supports of such.. I know the question is put simple wise but still. If you don't ask you don't know lol
Ian
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2020, 02:37:07 PM »






Ian they are support and they are fitted every so often (forget the exact spacing) but if you search RN ships you will more than likely see them HTH


Bob


Hello Nick.. thanks again. It explains a lot. One other question.. it you look at the end of the brass photo etch. Next to the stanchions. You will c another set that have another leg as such.. where do these go? Are they supports of such.. I know the question is put simple wise but still. If you don't ask you don't know lol
Ian
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2020, 02:44:21 PM »

Hi Ian


As Bob says they are spaced for every so many normal uprights to one support. Iíve just measured my Invincible battlecruiser plan and it appears to vary in 1/96 scale from 11cm apart to 5cm apart. I think it depends on the superstructure and fittings that the stanchions have to go around will dictate how often they are positioned.
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2020, 03:29:18 PM »


If stock fencing etc is to go by, they are to help keep several tens of feet of reasonably taut wire straight and stanchions upright(ish). Naturally, when the ship is in action its all folded down out or inboard and tension goes out the window.


I am using Horse tail hair for my wire railings and keeping it tight does cause the end stanchions to bend in and the line of stanchions around curves to lean in. I will be adding supports every so often for realistic purposes!


Re your straight lines etc Ian, They might have been painted by hand following chalk lines drawn by a Petty Officer, and thus imparting some roughness, but at scale, you cannot shrink yourself down to recreate this, so straight lines are more than acceptable. Any camo scheme gets my thumbs up  :D


You are doing a fine job with your build and, as I say often: It's your hobby. do it how you want to, that's the most important thing. If you make models for a living, or enter models in competitions then yes, they will be judged, but otherwise plough your own furrow mate  :-))
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2020, 04:51:25 PM »






Hi and Thank-you people for all of the info you have shared, It has helped me no end.


I thought I would post a couple of pics of my efforts regarding Hand rails. see what you think.


Ian
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Re: Dean's Marine HMS Manxman upgrade lasercut plastic
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2020, 06:38:41 PM »

Hi Ian


Excellent job of your stanchions. I use a mixture depending on the model- Iíve used turned brass versions on different models but they are not cheap when they only come in packs of 20. Adds up when you need 400 of them! But if they come in the kit, as these do, I use them wherever possible.
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