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Author Topic: Modeen Steam Models.  (Read 6017 times)

belli

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Modeen Steam Models.
« on: May 18, 2020, 08:55:59 pm »

If anybody would have a set of plans for the Modeen Steam Launches, I would very much like to see them.

The African Queen which is the only pictures I have seen so far seems to be a nice, mid sized, easy build (flat bottom?).  Just my kind of thing.

Thanks,
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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 07:13:23 pm »

I had completely forgotten about posting this, surely somebody out there with one of these?
I see Oldiron also looking for a set of plans but I haven't heard from him in two years now...
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KNO3

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 07:29:50 pm »

I have seen one of these on the lake. Nice boat for what it is, I especially liked the rounded boiler. It had a different engine though, a Stuart or cheddar single cyl oscillator.
Since the hull is so simple, you could easily build one without plans. Just trace the shape (half) on your computer or paper, fold the paper to copy it and you get the shape of the bottom. The sides you just bend when gluing to the bottom. Then make a rectangle for the stern and you're ready with the hull. Decks, benches, masts are optional.

I wonder if these rounded boilers were made from some repurposed standard copper part?
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TheLongBuild

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 07:56:23 pm »

Unfortunately I do not have any plans for this Modeen steam model, but when fired up sails very nicely.



frazer heslop

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 03:38:27 pm »

Im sure I have seen a book about Modeen may have been written by Colin Laker
No idea how much factual info it may contain re plans
cheers
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Terry

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 04:14:35 pm »

Hi belli, I have one which still gets in the water. It was purchased as a kit 43 or so years ago by my father. I still have the complete Modeen catalogue which includes a type written and hand signed letter of thanks from Ron Needham, the owner of Modeen. You don't get service like that nowadays! I have attached the instructions that came with the kit, but there was no plan as such. Some dimensions might help;
Length 27"
Beam 5 1/2"
Hull bottom 1/4" thick
Transom 3/4" thick
Kit included a Stuart Turner ST1 engine, still being made and sold by S.T.
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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 07:16:41 pm »

Thanks Terry, that's exactly the kind of information I am looking for!   It's not a matter of building a steam boat, I want to build that steam boat...
If I may ask, what is the thickness of the ply used for the sides?

I have captured a few plans in CAD already and hope to capture a few more, this is really the only way to preserve these old designs.  I am coming down the straight with the Midwest Fan Tail but works been keepin me kinda busy lately.  The first set of parts have been laser cut and and everything fits good.  There are a few changes I want to make to aid assembly and then I'll post the files on RCG.  Drawings were made of the engine and boiler and posted, all the boiler parts have been made and await soldering.

Rose had her hull modeled in 3D and a plug is currently being machined for a mold (just for fun).
I took a Wilesco safety valve to a local spring place and can get the same spring (S/S) made for about $.20 each (min 200 springs).  Seems easier than scratching around for suitable springs.
I have a few other drawings done in CAD but not posted yet as they are not quite done.

Thanks!

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steamboatmodel

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 01:30:54 am »

Take a look at some of Basil Harley Model boat plans or bowman Launch Plans.
Gerald.
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roycv

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 06:49:24 am »

Hello belli, the Basil Harley plan for Celia May has very thick sides as the deck is set into a recess in the topsides.  I made this boat some time ago and it is very simple.  However for what you want 1/8th or 3mm ply will do the job nicely.  It is worth paying a bit more for this ply as I would suggest Birch (as in tree) faced ply will give you a better surface for finshing off.

The construction of the hull if you follow the printed sheet above is best started with glueing and clamping (not spring loaded pegs) the bow together and glueing back about 6 inches to the base and leave until the glue has completely set. perhaps 2 days.  Then spring the sides back and glue to the stern.  Make sure the hull sides and base all stay square together.

 While glueing the last part you may need some temporary deck level spacers to stop the ply at deck level taking the shortest path and so preserve the maybe slightly flared top curve.

Where you have an edge fit I would glue in a 1/4 inch square fillet so that there is a good surface area to glue onto.  Not sure if you want a deck but if so the deck should have hatches cut before it is glued in place.  I would not show the edge of the deck but insert the deck using some more 1/4 inch square wood to form a ledge for the deck to sit on.

The propeller tube should be positioned to have space for the propeller diameter plus a bit.   I suggest you position the tube propeller shaft combination so that there is enough of a gap between the end of the shaft and the rudder so that you can change the propeller and or take it off while painting.  The rudder can be laminated 1mm ply and have the rudder stock sandwiched in between.  I put a bend of 30 odd degrees in the bottom of the sandwiched rudder stock so that it cannot twist.

I use thin ply for my rudders as you can see the laminations show as you sand it down to an aerofoil shape and so make each side even.  Choose the rudder stock for a size that has a close fitting tube to go in the hull this shound have some small triangles of ply to support it.  The tiller should be connected to the servo via the servo top and a piece of stiff wire used, I have a dog leg bend to go into the tiller and a screw holding clamp fitted onto the servo top, look at model aircraft supplies for that.
As far as glues go a good quality PVA will do the job.  Finishing the ply I use a 50/50 mix of yacht varnish (this can be bought in small quantities from your local Poundshop, I have been using it for some years now) and turps substitute.  This will go into the wood and raise the little fibres you do not see.  When dry repeat and then one coat of varnish.  For the abrasive or wet and dry paper use 250 - 400 grade, when finishing off use 600 to 800 grade.  If used properly the abrasive paper can be used several times.
 
 Now use the black abrasive paper and water to gently rub down the wood surface try not to get down to the wood.  As soon as the abrasive paper starts to clog wash off the paper until black again.  If it drags at the varnish it has not had time for the varnish to dry.

Then when dry give two coats of varnish and repeat and then whatever finishing you want.  You should also treat the insides of the hull as well in a similar manner.  Time spent now will give you a finish that will last 30 years as mine have!
Good luck
Roy




 
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Terry

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 11:21:12 am »

Hi belli. Pleased to help. The hull sides are 1/8" thick. If you need any more info or fotos just ask. Here are two of my "Cleopatra" with the Stuart Turner engine, more realistic in my opinion.
Cheers, Terry.
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tony52

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 11:30:23 am »

There is some information and a youtube clip in this link


https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/modelsteam/modeen-african-queens-t95545.html


I can remember seeing his earlier (smaller) steam boat kit on sale at a model shop in Manchester back in the 1980s.





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Terry

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2020, 11:46:57 am »

Very interesting Tony, thanks for posting it.
Cheers, Terry.
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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2020, 02:05:09 pm »

Here's the title page cleaned up a bit.  Americanized spelling...


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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 03:00:05 pm »

I started building the Snipe as it seemed to be an easy design and for most it probably is.   I thought of molding the sides by laminating ply in a mold, my first sides were three layers of 1/8" ply.  It's a birch ply but not the really good stuff that you associate with the word birch, I am not sure of the grade but it is quite soft and probably used for furniture, it is quite cheap which is what drew me to it...

The first sides weren't quite curved enough and being 3/8" thick were impossible to bend,  the floor was done in a similar manner at two layers and was a bit better.  The side mold was glued back together and a new curvier curve was cut.  A second pair of sides were laminated at two layers (1/4") which fitted quite well but they still felt too heavy for me.  I abandoned the build at this point but I consider my failed experiment a real success!

For comparison, the snipe is about 26" long, about 2.75" high, a three ply side weighed 180g, the bottom 243g.  The hull with three plys all around would weigh about 600g plus a bit for the stern.
 
The hull with two plys all around would weigh about 400g plus a bit for the stern, still seemed a bit heavy.   I also tried a sheet of pine, 5/16" thick, a side would weigh about 160g (about 126g if it were 1/4"), this is a little lighter than the ply.   I have since bought some bass, poplar and spruce to continue experiments, I suspect these will be lighter than the pine.


My resistance to using only a single layer for a side and bottom would be the very weak joint in the corner but I guess you could add a gusset and then round the corner off a bit but you really don't need more than 1/8".

I have drawn the Celia May but I am not quite done with it, I'll post the files here when finished with the laser cut files.  Once again the sides are drawn quite thick at 5/16" (I think).  The originals were probably made from hand planed wood by a very crafty fellow and thinner than 5/16 was probably getting more difficult.
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roycv

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2020, 05:12:08 pm »

Hi just to correct you on Celia May.  The sides are put in a steam chest and they go straight into a jig, you have about 10 seconds to do this from almost floppy wood to its new shape.  That is what I did for my Celia May.  You can make a shaped 'chest' and boil water and feed the steam in for abour 20 minutes for each side.

There is another option and that is to laminate 2 X 3mm ply panels for each side and glue them together when the curve is formed.  I will post a picture of my model which is fairly faithful but has a single deck that removes on its own with the aluminium cabins.  Mine is powered by a vintage Bassett-lowke Marine electric motor.
It was to be steam powered but things did not fit and were also too heavy.

regards Roy
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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2020, 07:28:41 pm »

Hi Terry,

Your "Cleopatra" is excellent!  If I could impose...  I'm looking at the overall dimensions and there are discrepancies.  Please see the attached, where exactly does the 27" measure from/to.  Is the beam exactly 5.5" after side sheeting?  What is the size of the 'nose block' (bow)?   What is the approx size of the boiler (dia 2.5" x 4"?)?  Any and all dimensions welcomed.


Hi Roy,
My thinking behind the molded plywood was to avoid the steaming the sides.  Tony shows a nice method where he stuck them over a pot and slow cooked them till tender.  I might still do this as a learning exercise.  Please post photos as I always like to see, there are also parts of the drawing that are also unclear to me.

Cheers,
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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 07:31:07 pm »

...
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roycv

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2020, 07:55:34 pm »

Hi I am sure that would work but remember the wood will go really floppy and need to go straight into a jig.  Also you can use ammonia to bend wood even diluted will do.  For thin wood I use window cleaning liquid which contains ammonia.

I will have to take a new photo the old ones must have been on film.  The Celia May plan is available from Sarik.  My one is with a friend at the moment.
Roy
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KNO3

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2020, 02:25:31 am »

Hi belli, I have one which still gets in the water. It was purchased as a kit 43 or so years ago by my father. I still have the complete Modeen catalogue which includes a type written and hand signed letter of thanks from Ron Needham, the owner of Modeen. You don't get service like that nowadays! I have attached the instructions that came with the kit, but there was no plan as such. Some dimensions might help;
Length 27"
Beam 5 1/2"
Hull bottom 1/4" thick
Transom 3/4" thick
Kit included a Stuart Turner ST1 engine, still being made and sold by S.T.

Terry,  the boat I saw was yours, in Vienna. I hope you are well.
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Terry

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2020, 12:42:45 pm »

Hi belli, sorry for late reply. To answer your queries:
Overall length of the hull is 27" (not including the rudder) and that is how it is described in the catalogue. Strange that your copy of the catalogue states 28".
Beam is 5 1/2" measured across the out side of the hull sides.
The "nose block" is 3/8" wide as pictured and is basically a blunt "V" cross section reinforcing the join of the hull sides.
The boiler is 2 1/2" dia. x 2 1/2" deep. The supporting structure and spacers give an overall height of 4 5/8".


Hi KN03.
I am well thanks, are you the guy with the Triumph?


Cheers, Terry.
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KNO3

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2020, 08:22:15 pm »

Hi KN03.
I am well thanks, are you the guy with the Triumph?


Cheers, Terry.

Hi, yes that's me! Calin
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rhavrane

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2020, 07:27:59 am »

Bonjour Calin,
Nest time ypu come to Paris, Coùe with her  ok2
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Terry

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2020, 11:04:56 am »

Hi all, just found this. My father paid 84 pound for the kit in the 1970's, including engine and boiler. Today the Stuart Turner engine alone would set you back 322 pound. Everything is relative of course.


Cheers, Terry.
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DBS88

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2020, 08:29:10 am »


Hi saw this whilst surfing this morning and thought of you, is this a version of the boat you are looking for?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203160094380

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belli

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Re: Modeen Steam Models.
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2020, 04:09:48 pm »

Thanks Terry,
I'll post the drawings here when I am done and perhaps we might see a few more of these.

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