Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: G5 in R/C control  (Read 827 times)

Hellmut1956

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • Best Hobby in the World!
  • Location: Mammendorf, Germany (near Munich)
G5 in R/C control
« on: July 04, 2020, 04:46:53 PM »

As G5 network technology is starting to spread, has anybody looked into using G% as a replacement or addition to 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz?
Logged
Best regards Hellmut

coch y bonddu

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 407
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Bethesda
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 08:03:15 PM »

What on earth is G5 sounds to me you are talking some kind of code ??????




Dave
Logged

Allnightin

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 223
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2020, 09:23:32 PM »

5G as in 5G mobile phone perhaps?
Logged

Hellmut1956

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • Best Hobby in the World!
  • Location: Mammendorf, Germany (near Munich)
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 10:37:43 PM »

I am sure you both are familiar with G4 as being the network state of the art and is used in cellulars and can be used even mi naval models. G5 is the network technology required to implement what is called Industry 4.0 or IIot (industrial Internet of Things). The use in industrial environment and in automotive networking operations requires very short latency as a requirement as an assured quality of service. Short latency means for any other ones who might not know it that the time between issuing after a very low amount of time a command is being available in the target.


I have i.e. a contract that costs me 2 Euros a month and includes 100 MByte of data volume. You can imagine that the amount of data being transferred between a model and a transmitter in R/C applications in a naval mode is very low and 100 MB is more that enough using an LTE datalink. Would you put an Raspberry Pi ZERO W board in your model you would have Linux running in your model and use Skype to see the image as if you are the skipper on the boat.


G5 as it is targeting also industrial applications which includes embedded systems, i.e. Arduino, so tarifs at a very low rate should be available.
Logged
Best regards Hellmut

DaveM

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Why on earth do I do this?
  • Location: Nottingham
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 11:01:45 PM »

I must be getting very old - a box with two sticks held in my hands and a smaller one fitted in the model does it for me. Maybe I'm missing a point here?

Dave M
Logged

chas

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 418
  • now in los montesinos Spain.
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 11:42:16 PM »

I'm with Dave on this one. Why in the name of all that's holy would anyone want to do this for 99.999% of model control.  2 sticks for most models, or 2 sticks plus all the extras for a model with all the working features. It's simple cheap and easy to use.
 That said, I suppose that if it wasn't for all the experimenters,  their would be nothing new.
Chas

Logged

Hellmut1956

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • Best Hobby in the World!
  • Location: Mammendorf, Germany (near Munich)
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2020, 12:24:09 AM »

You are absolutely right. R/C controlled models started without proportional controls, just buttons. In the 50th and 60th that was state of the art. Then came those advanced R/C systems like you describe that started in the MHz range, 27.5 MHz I am sure are well remembered frequencies used in R/C controls. Than the 2.4 GHz R/C systems came up. Chinese made them available very cheap. But here I was confronted for the first time with fellow modellers that made their own R/C control systems using cheap 2.4 GHz modules. This was partly true and necessary because traditional R/C system providers asked premium prices for modules like those expanding the number of switches and servos that could be controlled. That was when I came in touch with this. I bought for nearly 800 Deutsch marks, about 400 Euros a system from robbe that multiplexed the control signals for servos or/and switches over a single channel and so expanding the number of things that could be controlled. It was a terrible partly useless module. One afternoon a naval modelling friend and myself used a controller, today you would call it an Arduino UNO, then it was the AVR mega8 that costs just a couple of Euros the most and implemented a good working system in just one afternoon and night.


Then there is the wide range of naval modeller interests. Some just want to run a modell on a lake, here is what I would guess to be your absolutely justified interest is. Others want more features to be under their control, like sound and smoke generators or moving parts on a warship.


But when your interest is more in the inventing and trying field, those videos from airplane modellers that control their planes by having a video camera record the "virtual pilot" view from the cockpit and have them transmitted to the operator that sees the video and is so capable to control the place. So as the many drones this days show. At the beginning the legal limitations were not yet existing, just the requirement to keep a direct view of the plane to limit the distance. Here is where data links on networks for cellulars became interesting. Sadly also for bad people. But you could be in London and control a plane that flies in the Glasgow area.


I hope this explains why I am asking if anyone was dealing with G5.
Logged
Best regards Hellmut

tsenecal

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
  • Location: Arvada, Colorado, USA
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2020, 06:40:49 AM »

i do not see 5g having any more of an impact on r/c model vehicles than its predecessor did.  ie none.  there is no benefit to it.  the amount of data being sent from transmitter to receiver is infinitesimal compared to the data consumed by your cell phone, and the current r/c equipment has one giant benefit that all the different IoT items don't - near zero latency < 7ms.   using basic LTE, you get an AVERAGE of 70ms, with a high of 150ms...  anybody want to fly their airplane into the ground when it is skipping from one cell tower to the next?
Logged

C-3PO

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 926
  • I thought that hairy beast would be the end of me
  • Location: Outer Rim world of Tatooine
Re: 5G in R/C control
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2020, 08:56:31 AM »

Published multiple times on the web

In addition to delivering faster connections and greater capacity, a very important advantage of 5G is the fast response time referred to as latency. 1 millisecond  but realistic 10-30ms

And I came across a new term URLLC - Ultra-Reliable Low-Latency Communication

Guess we might find out by about 2022

For sure 5G will make things possible that we cannot imagine right now - not sure of the benefit of downloading a full HD movie in seconds  :-)

C-3PO
Logged
I think it's the way I have learnt most of my stuff - getting very stuck first...

Hellmut1956

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • Best Hobby in the World!
  • Location: Mammendorf, Germany (near Munich)
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 08:58:09 AM »

I share your guess.
Logged
Best regards Hellmut

radiojoe

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,840
  • Treat every day as your last,, one day it will be.
  • Location: Gosport , Hampshire , England
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 09:51:55 AM »

well my now ten year old 2.4 g system works flawlessly and dose exactly what it is supposed to ,not really sure how or why you would want to improve on it, unless with some sort of thought control on our boats, mind you with my span of attention my boat would be stuffed  %% %%
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,708
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2020, 10:08:45 AM »

Current 2G4 radios use what is basically 2G cellphone technology hardware, but without the cellular network.  It is a heck of a sight cheaper to manufacture than more traditional radio.
Radio control is generally tolerated while the operator and model are essentially line of sight.  Moving to a point where an object can be controlled from anywhere on the planet via the cellular network, which is a direct ramification of using 5G, would be frowned upon by the authorities, some of whom will remember the havoc that was caused a couple of Christmases ago by an odd drone.
The hardware, if it becomes cheap enough to compete, will find a place.  Mainstream use using the cellular network, less so.  There will still be some who use the technology, but they are likely to be hard core enthusiasts or those with an agenda.
Otherwise, just because it is new and modern does not mean that it will be of any use in the hobbyist field.  Mostly because of its potential for other "-ists".
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

C-3PO

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 926
  • I thought that hairy beast would be the end of me
  • Location: Outer Rim world of Tatooine
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2020, 11:48:33 AM »

Boards that can be used with Arduino/Raspberrry Pi

2G  < 10 shipped

3G/4G boards approx 30

You won't be able to stop 5G boards arriving and all the issues/benefits that come with them...

There are thousands of RF products that you can buy in the UK that are illegal to use without the correct license - doesn't stop the sales!

just because it is new and modern does not mean that it will be of any use in the hobbyist field

I would keep an open mind - Years ago most of us would have happily played our CD music collection and the thought of streamed music was just not relevant - look where we are now. The thought of asking a speaker the time or what the weather today is, was just stupid science fiction.

I am certain that 5G will open up new possibilities that we can't even think/not aware of currently - for sure some of them will be bad news!- watch this space

C-3PO
Logged
I think it's the way I have learnt most of my stuff - getting very stuck first...

Hellmut1956

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • Best Hobby in the World!
  • Location: Mammendorf, Germany (near Munich)
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2020, 01:07:56 PM »

Again C-3PO, I share your opinion!
Logged
Best regards Hellmut

BeeJay UK

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Norfolk 'n Good
  • Location: Diss, Norfolk
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2020, 01:11:56 PM »

'27.5 MHz I am sure are well remembered frequencies used in R/C controls'. Yes well remembered because some of us still use it as it still works perfectly OK. If it ain't broke why fix it.

I have no problem with progress but I have to see a purpose in it.


As for 'Years ago most of us would have happily played our CD music collection and the thought of streamed music was just not relevant'. I managed until about 3 years ago without ever owning a CD, I still only have about eight. I have got quite a few cassettes though, they still work fine too.

I have been listening to 'streamed music' for upwards of 60 years, it is streamed through a magic box called a radio, it's very reliable, I listen to it everyday.

As for 5G, I carelessly washed by old mobile phone, that was capable of having the 3G & 4G turned off. That was great as I only need what 2G does and 3 & 4G use a lot of battery life. The new phone isn't switchable, I'm stuck with the 4G I don't need and I have to chare it every night. Progress, HA.
Logged

DaveM

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Why on earth do I do this?
  • Location: Nottingham
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2020, 01:48:58 PM »

Not long ago I was recommended by my dentist to buy a new electric toothbrush with softer bristles. While looking for one on the Internet I came across several sites which sold "Smart" toothbrushes which, apparently, will connect to my Smartphone (if I had one). These things are HUNDREDS of pounds, compared to the one I finally bought at 35. Combined with an App and Bluetooth these Smart devices will give me 'real time updates while brushing my teeth'.
Can someone remind me what it is that baffles brains?
Dave M
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,690
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2020, 02:36:11 PM »

I thought you used Permagrit Dave...

Colin
Logged

BeeJay UK

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Norfolk 'n Good
  • Location: Diss, Norfolk
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2020, 05:23:50 PM »

That will be ""xxxxx"", DaveM. It appears that I can't say b*****t on here.

Logged

DaveM

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Why on earth do I do this?
  • Location: Nottingham
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2020, 06:33:13 PM »

It appears that I can't say b*****t on here.
Looks like you found a way around that one, m'duck!  8)

DM
Logged

coch y bonddu

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 407
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Bethesda
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2020, 10:16:01 PM »

WoW WoW  are DOOMED DOOMED  someone is trying to reinvent the wheel...why try and improve something that isnt broke and simply over complicate things.




Dave
Logged

RST

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,139
  • Location: UK
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2020, 10:33:01 PM »

5G -what the hec happened to 3G???!!!

Where I work in Europe the mobile network is absolutely fantastic, 4G just about everywhere, even underground!  They nailed that tech. But internet in France seems very behind the times though.  Here in north of UK I'm lucky to get 2G on the full length of Scotland on 2 phones with 2 different networks (seems half the time I can't get any usable signal at all), I was barely even able to make a call from either phone in Jan-February and not much better to here stuck in Inverness now in June.
As I understand it 5G is being punted everywhere but with no better reception unless they install more antennas, and I'm not seeing any more antennas going up anywhere!!

Mind you I am a bit of a dinosaur, my 27 and 40MHz RC stuff still works fine so no reason to change though I do have a 2.4GHz set to try.  I was put down by a colleage in Paris a few months ago though becauase I complained my personal phone didn't have an FM receiver for radio, first time in 10-12 years I've been deprived!  I was told "why -just stream it on data", to which I replied "xxxxxx off" -you want me to PAY for a FREE service, used the world over and nothing to do with the phone network?  But I personally am still fuming that BBC world service isn't broadcast any more and is now only on internet -which defeats the whole point of it for me!!!!

I'm not adverse to tech (I am a testing engineer qualifying new products for my company), but I'm a fan of saying it has to be beneficial to you and me to mean a difference. 

...2 laptops, 2 mobile phones these days and every colleague at work is sub 30years old and a computer programmer.  The LAST thing I want to do is use a phone or something like it to control a model as a hobby.  There is a fraternity on Model railways which embrace the tech which is fair eough but it's absolutely not for me.

Rich
Logged

roycv

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,628
  • Location: S.W. Herts
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2020, 11:44:55 PM »

No mobile phone, G5 is another planet, I can only think of GH which was a radar and anyone who knows it will know what it was for.  Communication was very much one way!
I agree with other sentiments expressed, I still use 27Mhz AM and FM and 40 as well, loads of crystals not so many flags.
regards
Roy


Logged

Umi_Ryuzuki

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,167
  • Location: PDX, OR USA
    • Models and Miniatures
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2020, 12:15:18 AM »

RC G-5 Russian Torpedo boat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUianfcSaY
 

You could run Wifi RC from your phone, but whether it is 4g or 5g isn't significant to wifi.

BrianB6

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 964
  • I'm not sure if I can get up from here
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2020, 07:51:17 AM »

Have you still got 2G?   It has been switched off down here for a couple of years.   <:(   So new phones were needed.

A lot of our family still have to go outside the house to make a call >>:-(
Logged

BeeJay UK

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Norfolk 'n Good
  • Location: Diss, Norfolk
Re: G5 in R/C control
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2020, 12:30:28 PM »

And still have to go outside to make the call of nature......


Back in the day when I had a work mobile, mine was on Vodafone, the only network that didn't work in our village pub.


Oh dear, what a shame........

Incidentally I have still got my original analogue mobile upstairs, now that definitely doesn't work now.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up