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Author Topic: How not to fix a shaft  (Read 828 times)

coch y bonddu

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How not to fix a shaft
« on: July 05, 2020, 10:04:47 pm »

A STARK warning to all you who fix your shafts in with body filler,this Mersey was having a simple respray and after pulling out the shafts i find that the shaft tube was only held in with body filler how PATHETIC  is that sorry to say it but only an IDIOT would do such a thing and to you lot out there ...and i quote....well it works for me all i say is RUBBISH...car body filler has absoloutly no structrual strength FACT....use either P40 FIBERGLASS Paste or fiberglas Nothing else will do .Sorry to be so blunt but is had to be said...]
]

The shaft simply fell off


Dave
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chas

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2020, 11:22:17 pm »

Blimey, no career in diplomacy for you then. I hope you never have to talk to anyone face to face like that. I don't think the person involved was stupid or pathetic, just trying to do a job they were unfamiliar with. Making mistakes is how many lessons are learned, and we all make them, I've made plenty. Have a heart Dave, kindness, help and manners work much better than shouty critique.

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Peter Fitness

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 11:57:45 pm »

Well it would seem that I'm an idiot, because all of the prop tubes in all of my models are held in by body filler from Supercheap Auto Australia, which is similar to Halfords in the UK. I had reason to remove two in the one boat recently, and it took me the better part of an hour to do so, without destroying the hull. I had to use a combination of a Dremel and a chisel to get through the filler which, by the way, wasn't fibreglass. There are obviously different qualities of body filler available, so you may need to reconsider your statement, Dave.


Peter.
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coch y bonddu

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 12:00:48 am »

Not at all Peter as I have seen this time and time again




Dave
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CGAux26

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 12:17:48 am »

I have used 3M 4200 Marine Caulk in all my boats over the years.  The oldest, my Springer is 13 years old with no deterioration of the caulk.  It's a 1 part caulk meant for below-the-waterline use in boats, in salt water.  It cures to a slightly resilient texture. 


Can't say about car body filler or anything else.
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derekwarner

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 12:57:22 am »

Peter....


This Septone Filler brand of Polyester Filler is marketed by AutoPro Group and is a 490gm filler + 10 gm of Hardener.


If you are like many modelers, you may end up running out of the Polyester Hardener for the Auto Filler as the 1:50 mix ration is a little difficult to judge...so a 1/4 full tin without the hardener

So to the rescue. :-)) .....Bunnings sell a 50gm plastic bottle of the Polyester Hardener for about $6.50

Derek

PS, this product when cured is totally waterproof, has a high mechanical strength however does not display the severe brittleness of raw Epoxy Resin+Hardener

The bond failure Dave mentions could have been a Cellulose based Filler designed for internal wall board plaster use {-) ....having said this, the Cellulose filler is totally suitable for fairing of wooden planking prior to fiberglass epoxy + mesh

Is the Membership of your Idiots Club locked down to Covid-19?...... we are social distancing at our Idiots Club in Wollongong O0
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BrianB6

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 01:56:12 am »

Personally I am a belt and braces man as regards fixing prop shafts.   Probably from my days before all these fillers when there was only Araldite. (don't knock it, the precast concrete columns in Coventry Cathedral are glued together with it)   Also from my days with Diesel, glo plug and petrol powered model racing boats.
My Ararat has the shafts fixed inboard to brass plates soldered onto the tubes and screwed to a bulkhead and outboard to 'A' brackets fibreglassed inside the hull with fibreglass at the hull penetration.
If I ever have to replace the bearings, (unlikely now) I can ream them out and put new ones in.


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Taranis

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2020, 08:11:01 am »

Lovely Brian  :-)


I will probably copy your frame fixing method in my Riva  O0

malcolmfrary

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2020, 09:17:29 am »

When talking filler, are we talking about something like cellulose putty or something involving resin, hardner and maybe fiber?
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terry horton

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2020, 09:40:16 am »

The first question I would ask myself with regard to this particular propshaft/filler adhesion would be .. Is the second shaft equally discombobulated with the filler adhesion or is it held fast?
I've recently built a "Milford Star" partly started kit where the shaft was held fast with a mix of body filler and lead shot !.... took a lot of work to carefully remove and replace with new.

Personally I line my shafts up "true" from motor shaft to prop,  spot them with superglue then fully fix with two  part resin glue finally finishing with filler .


Regards
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coch y bonddu

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 09:42:58 am »

Car body filler which has no structural strength as its use is for dents in car body repair

And the second shaft is the same



But OBVIOUSLY the so called experts on here know better so I will have the last laugh when a boat sinks and believe you me seen a fair few because of this




Dave
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DaveM

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 10:56:10 am »

I can sense the rage in Dave Jones's original post, having worked on a model which then falls apart through no fault of his! Without recourse to words like idiot, pathetic and rubbish I have to say that I agree with him in that P40 is a much more appropriate product for this task than P38. In car-body repairing one would first bridge any gaps or rust holes which require some strength with P40. This is a polyester paste with chopped strands of glass-fibre mixed in with it and does indeed set very hard. P38 would then be used to smooth over the P40 and rub down ready for painting. P38 also has its uses for making small unloaded fairings and fittings but I wouldn't use it for anything which might be subject to the stresses of a prop shaft. It just wasn't intended to be used for such purposes. BTW you can smooth P40 with a finger dipped in standard thinners, but don't tell the HSE.  :police:
I'm afraid I'm not familar with the Australian products mentioned but I'd avoid using anything for this particular job which claims to be super-smooth or ideal for surface repairs - for the same reason that I wouldn't use P38.
Dave M
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nemesis

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2020, 11:30:44 am »

over the years of modelling I have found that Brass and Fibreglass resin do not like each other. Give it reasonable knock and the so called bond has gone. I have extracted many a prop tube by giving it good tap leaving a lovely hole that you could slide the new tube into. nemesis
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derekwarner

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2020, 12:01:55 pm »

I might just send an offline post to my old Mate Neil  :-))  ....

....& to hear the thunder of laughter he makes as an acknowledged professional model boat builder :P ......

Derek
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PS......he may even be watching & laughing now as I type.....then ask as he watches his old sparing partners argue with themselves about such a simple issue {-)
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BeeJay UK

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2020, 12:10:39 pm »

Quote
"A STARK warning to all you who fix your shafts in with body filler,this Mersey was having a simple respray and after pulling out the shafts i find that the shaft tube was only held in with body filler how PATHETIC  is that sorry to say it but only an IDIOT would do such a thing and to you lot out there ...and i quote....well it works for me all i say is RUBBISH...car body filler has absoloutly no structrual strength FACT....use either P40 FIBERGLASS"

Do we have to put up with this pathetic arrogance on here? I have only recently joined the group having returned to model boats after a 20 odd year gap. I was thinking this was a friendly group for the assistance and sharing by all of us. However if this sort of ranting is acceptable I don't think I will be hanging around for long. It is arrogant, self opinionated attitudes and statements like this that drives inexperienced people away from a lot of model boat clubs. Most people just want to go to the lake for a quiet chat and a sail. And to have their questions answered in a friendly and non-aggressive way, without being ripped to bits.

What they don't like at the lake or on forums like this is having their hard work criticised and 'pulled apart' by the resident 'expert', especially if said 'expect' has the diplomatic skills of Genghis Khan. Technically this correspondent may be correct, at least in his opinion, however there are ways of saying it without resorting to personal insults.

As for the body filler issue itself, I have no strong opinion either way. If the surfaces are properly keyed I have never had a problem with body filler sticking to anything except shiny 'soft' plastic. We can't guess the OP's views on using fibreglass resin to hold propshafts in is, but that's worked OK for me for over 30 years. Given that P38 is just resin with a filler powder added, you can mix your own, then I can't see a problem. Certainly not with electric power.

As I have said the OP is full entitled to his opinion on any issue, however he is not entitled to be downright bloody rude when expressing it.
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warspite

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2020, 12:56:26 pm »

The OP doesn't mention if the Mersey is his or a recent acquisition, therefore the remarks made should be more tempered with respect to other forum members in that, not all should be tarred with the same brush.


It would therefore be wise that when having the OP do any work on your equipment it would be wise to mention what you secured your equipment in with so as not to incur his wrath (or decide on someone else).  %) :D O0 {-) :P [size=78%] [/size]
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: How not to fix a shaft
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2020, 01:55:18 pm »


Do we have to put up with this pathetic arrogance on here?


 
... no .... Lockdown Blith spirit is over I guess.... Topic locked.   {:-{
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