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[ukmike]

Hi fellow modellers.

Firstly, this Blog is solely for those people who are thinking about or intending using LeTonkinois varnish, as it has some unique properties that need to be understood before going ahead and using it. Also, I have no intentions of telling anyone what to do, wouldn't dream of it, but rather, only how I did it and arrived at a point where when finished I decided that it was the very best hand finished boat I could have ever hoped for, i.e. The Amati series one Riva Aquarama. It took many, many hours of varnishing test pieces, choosing brushes and even which White Spirit to use and no, they are not all the same! I had many failures, before I got it right. The main reason for turning to LeTonkinios was due to that fact that I couldn't get the original Italian varnish that Riva used. This was Stoppani and was applied using 4 inch brushes by the factory. Stoppani still exist but ceased making the  one pack varnishes in favour of more modern 2 pack synthetic types which have to be applied by spraying, Riva then changed also to spraying their hulls and buffing to get the same perfect results as before.
I have been most fortunate, in that I was shown over then invited by the owner to take the helm of an original Aquarama, down along the Grand Canal in Venice and out into the lagoon. That's when I decided that I had just been in the most beautiful boat in the world, not having £700.000, instead, I decided to build my own, unfortunately only a little one, the Amati kit to be precise.

Before I continue with this Blog I would like to know if it would be of any help to anyone, as I don't want to waste your time as well as my time and the resources of MBM.

Mike.

[Taranis]

Subscribed thank you 

[Taranis]

All the gear and no idea 

[Dave_S.]

I bought a 1/2 litre of the Marine No.1 for the mahogany parts of a couple of Aeronaut kits. So far, I have been testing it on scrap from the kits to work out the best way to apply to before slapping it on the boat. So I'm keen to watch this as well.

[SteamboatPhil]

oooo yes yes yes please, as I have a tin of the varnish, and no matter what I do or how I try it basically comes out dull, flat and just plain rubbish (so far only on test pieces )
Will follow with intrest

[ukmike]

Hello all.

It seems that there is interest, so here we go. Just to reiterate, this how I do it, not how you should do it. My technique was arrived at following a lot of testing and trials before actually varnishing the boat. The one that I am building at the moment, the third of 3, will be done in exactly the same way.
I thought that listing the equipment that I use would be a good starting place, but firstly the differences between the 2 LeTonk products.

The Original is my preferred type, it's a tad darker than the No.1 and slower drying. Slower drying leads to more levelling time which allows the brush marks disappear.
It does have it's drawbacks in that at least 48 hrs. need to be allowed before sanding or the sand paper just clogs. It doesn't like temperatures much below 16 degrees, as it takes that much longer to harden, or, above 25/27 degrees as this will affect its self levelling by speeding the drying process up.
Also, most importantly, it MUST be sanded before applying the next coat. You can't get away with sanding every second coat, if you do it will bite you, believe me.

Marine No. I have used this one and it does differ slightly from the Original. I found it somewhat thinner and slightly lighter in colour than the Original, also it dries quicker. On the whole a good varnish and the lighter colour together with faster drying may well suit some people.
The only drawback is that it doesn't quite have the depth of gloss as the Original but it does give a good shine.

The Equipment firstly the brushes, I tried lots on my test pieces from high end types with exotic bristles from different furry animals, to cheap and cheerful bristle ones.
The ones that I settled on are Royal SG711 3/4" with nylon Taclon bristles for the 10th Aquarama.
They do a 1" version which would probably work just as well, in fact I'm using the 1" on my 1/7th scale Riva Special build. Rymans keep SG711 Royal brushes @ £2.49 each or if no Rymans then online @ Red Carpet FX  www.redcarpetfx.com. @ £2.79. The 711 series have squared off bristles but if you prefer, the SG950 has oval bristles, I tried both and preferred the squared off one as it cuts in well, gets into corners better and seems to leave less brush marks.
For general cleaning up and brush cleaning I settled on White Spirit made by Bartoline. The brushes seem to clean more thoroughly and perform that little bit better than some other marques. Toolstation keep it and don't charge a premium.
A good quality micro fibre cloth for the final wipe over following sanding before a good thorough wipe over with a tack cloth, then it's ready for the next coat of varnish.
I always filter the varnish from the can into a empty washed Yogurt pot thru' a  120 micron disposable filter. Any unused varnish can then be poured back into the can, there will be a surprising amount unused as a 10th Aquarama will only need a small egg cup full to fully cover the whole boat but unfortunately the paper filters don't fit into an egg cup !!

Sanding I use only aluminium oxide paper, 250 grit for the initial sand then change to 400  to go over it again and finally 600 to finish. This leaves a sort of glaze on the wood and is as smooth as the proverbial baby's bum. Amazon have the sand paper.

Inclusions Don't worry about them, they easily get sanded away. Only the final coat needs a dust free atmosphere for the perfect finish. I do all of the varnishing up to the final coat in my shed which is where I build so is quite dusty. Only the final coat is done in the kitchen. I get everything ready the night before and get up about 6am, before my wife and little dog Albert come down. I creep about not wanting to cause any dust. It's a faff, but it works for me

That's enough for now, will carry on in the next post. Please ask any questions if I've left anything out.

Mike.

[ukmike]

Hi, me again.

Forgot to mention....

Varnish Application. I eventually found that thinning the first coat is unnecessary, the varnish doesn't like it anyway. I arrived at the best way is to apply as little as possible, just enough to cover all of the wood without missing any.That helps sanding and drying times. For the perfect finish, more thin coats are far better than lesser thick ones. Also, too much varnish will certainly lead to sags and runs but due to it's super levelling properties and longish drying times there is sufficient time to complete the whole boat, then, check for any sags/runs and if there is, brushing them out and the varnish will still level O.K.

Mike.

[RST]

I don't know this product but I read it as I'm interested in it...

I eventually found that thinning the first coat is unnecessary

...does it not say spefically not to thin the first coat?  Or did I read that wrong in the general instructions?

[derekwarner]

Thanks Mike........I have read a number of French blogs on the Le Tonkinois product, which is reported as the best natural glass like varnish avaible


The only issue is the translations 'gloss' [no pun] over some important comments


Interestingly, there is no importer listed for the product in Australia


Derek 

[ukmike]

Thanks Mike........I have read a number of French blogs on the Le Tonkinois product, which is reported as the best natural glass like varnish avaible


The only issue is the translations 'gloss' [no pun] over some important comments


Interestingly, there is no importer listed for the product in Australia


Derek

Hi Derek.

Both descriptions are fitting but Glass is particularly fitting.
Re.an importer in Australia. That could possibly change because recently the owner of LeTonkiois has retired and sold out to a German company.
Knowing German efficiency it wouldn't surprise me if they expand the marque globally. I hope that they keep the same recipe for the varnish which is basically that of the ancient Chinese, plus a few modern drying agents.
My favourite saying springs to mind and is quite fitting,"If it ain't broke don't fix it".

Mike.

[ukmike]

I don't know this product but I read it as I'm interested in it...

...does it not say spefically not to thin the first coat?  Or did I read that wrong in the general instructions?

Hi.
The varnish doesn't really like being thinned and does an excellent of penetrating the wood without it, particularly hardwood.
The instructions are somewhat ambiguous, particularly in regard to thinning and spraying. Depending on which you read.
I have tried both and it really doesn't like either, so I don't bother.


Mike.

[Klunk]

i note after sanding that you do not tack cloth the boat,  is there a reason why your not doing this?

[Taranis]

i note after sanding that you do not tack cloth the boat,  is there a reason why your not doing this?

#reply no.5
"For general cleaning up and brush cleaning I settled on White Spirit made by Bartoline. The brushes seem to clean more thoroughly and perform that little bit better than some other marques. Toolstation keep it and don't charge a premium.
A good quality micro fibre cloth for the final wipe over following sanding before a good thorough wipe over with a tack cloth, then it's ready for the next coat of varnish."

[ukmike]

i note after sanding that you do not tack cloth the boat,  is there a reason why your not doing this?

Hi Klunk.


If you read the Equipment section again you will see that I did in fact recommend a final wipe over with a tack cloth.


Mike.

[ukmike]

You beat me to it Taranis.


Thank you.


Mike.

[Taranis]

Hanging on your every word here    thank you
Do you recommend any particular brand of tack cloth while on the subject or have I missed that? I’ve only experienced Halfords

[ukmike]

Hi Taranis.


I thought that  as a closing post might list the the suppliers that I use for my builds.
Most are online but occasionally can be found locally in many Towns and Cities, what do you think ?


The tack cloths are ProDec, normally from my local Crown/Dulux decorating centre, I think they are national.
My abrasives also from them,  INDASA RHYNALOX PLUS in 5mtr rolls . First cut P240 or P320, second cut P400 and final cut P600.
Hope that helps.


Mike.

[Taranis]

Thank you Mike
I've just ordered those tack cloths at £5.10 delivered for 10 from Amazon 


I wonder if on your journey of discovery if you tried the industrial scouring pads that come in three grades red green grey ?

[ukmike]

Thank you Mike
I've just ordered those tack cloths at £5.10 delivered for 10 from Amazon 


I wonder if on your journey of discovery if you tried the industrial scouring pads that come in three grades red green grey ?

Good Morning Taranis.


I do have something similar, the are miss shaped offcuts and vary in size, good for our use. All assorted grits an can be washes out for re use when clogged.


You get a box full of assorted box full for little money from Ebay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-x-WET-AND-DRY-SANDING-BLOCKS-PADS-MIXED-GRADE-OFF-CUTS-Model-Crafts-promo/293330158254?hash=item444bd702ae:g:DAoAAOSwPH9ZgiC3


Will be posting a couple of pics later showing the results after 3 coats of varnish, just to give you an idea of the results after using the very thin coats.


Mike.

[Dave_S.]

Have you tried the tack cloths and abrasive pads that the Le Tonkinois chap sells? I bought some of each with my first can of the lacquer, but haven't used them yet.

[Taranis]

I've never seen those Mike, worth a punt for stock.


These are the pads my local ironmonger sells and they matt acrylic paint off very quickly. Not used on varnish but they clean the bottom of stainless steel pans with ease.

[ukmike]

I've never seen those Mike, worth a punt for stock.


These are the pads my local ironmonger sells and they matt acrylic paint off very quickly. Not used on varnish but they clean the bottom of stainless steel pans with ease.

I see what you mean now Taranis. No, I haven't used these, but, if they can scratch S/S pans they seem far too aggressive for varnish, I fear it may scratch, may be
wrong tho'.

Here are 2 pictures of the sanding of the 3rd coat, showing the results of the Vandal at work. Have shown before and after the first cut, for comparison, 2nd and 3rd cut still to go.

A relatively rare property that LeTonk has, is that it never completely hardens as do the synthetic types. It does harden of sorts but always remains flexible so that any

slight movement in the timber, i.e. temperature/humidity, swelling or shrinking it is handled by the varnish without cracking, unlike polyurethanes and the like

Mike.

[Taranis]

I think I managed to get the last stock of SG711 brushes   

I feel pretty sure my scouring pads will make a good job of matting back but I'm a while away yet.


The white spirit sold by tool station is Barrettine.
https://www.toolstation.com/white-spirit/p80778
Also do a low odour version.
https://www.toolstation.com/low-odour-white-spirit/p22164

Bartoline is also a brand name but not the one at tool station ?

[RST]

I've never seen those Mike, worth a punt for stock.


These are the pads my local ironmonger sells and they matt acrylic paint off very quickly. Not used on varnish but they clean the bottom of stainless steel pans with ease.

Those are normally referred to as "scotch brite" pads and very common in engineering and professional paint and finishing. Colour usually denotes abrasive level, you can get them coarse as rough steel wool to almost "non-scratch" you can use on a PTFE pot. They are superb and cheap when used right, can also be used wet.

[derekwarner]

The 3M [Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing] giant Company registered the Name Scotch-Brite years ago....they still manufacture the product but there are now many generics


Some of the Le Tonkinois video clips feature these synthetic scourer pads, as the do Steel Wool in grades 0, 00 and 000......which I have never seen


Derek