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Author Topic: Lesro Javelin  (Read 36649 times)

zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #175 on: March 03, 2021, 12:42:27 pm »

That is super-neat and tidy mrzippy - nice idea and well executed.


Thanks for sharing the pictures.


Bob.
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mrzippy

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #176 on: March 03, 2021, 01:04:00 pm »

Cheers ! below should be a pic of the type of pipe bender I use,
a cheap lightweight cast item, but ok for model gauge tubing.
Paul
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #177 on: March 03, 2021, 01:11:19 pm »

That is a nice neat little tool.


There is a copy of it for sale on eBay for £14.50 (and from a good supplier - Chronos) who I have used for years, but yours is a genuine Irwin Record so it may be better quality.


Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #178 on: March 03, 2021, 01:50:13 pm »

Nice pics Mr Zippy!


Is the raised plywood section to the right of the water tubes some strengthening for the rudder tube?
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2 Lesro Javelins... and that’s it. Not even close to finished!

mrzippy

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #179 on: March 03, 2021, 04:09:02 pm »

The above pipe bender pic is an example photo quickly nicked off the interweb -
mines bright yellow painted finish and a nasty, very poor quality copy, but does the job - just !

Stuw yes it's a vertical continuation/extension of the keel to support the rudder tube, nothing to do with the scoop scenario,
the model is a scaled up 1.5X Aerokits 'Sea Hornet' around a metre long.

I'll contact my pal who multi-raced a quick HP40 rear induction glow powered version in the 80's quite successfully,
to find out what mods he made to the chine strakes etc, which I know improved the performance a great deal -
allowing a basic wooden kit hull to keep up with the exotic glass fibre flatties of the period.

Paul
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #180 on: March 03, 2021, 04:46:46 pm »

The above pipe bender pic is an example photo quickly nicked off the interweb -
mines bright yellow painted finish and a nasty, very poor quality copy, but does the job - just !

Paul


Your bright yellow painted nasty quality copy of the Irvine Record small pipe bender is certainly working well enough Paul - and it is giving you a good result.

I may splash-out on the copy pipe bender from Chronos.  Its only half the price (or less - depending on where you buy the original type) than the genuine Irvine Record version, but I am sure that it will be more than good enough for any small pipe bending that I will ever want to do  - and I do fancy having a go at making a twin water pick-up like yours - it looks really neat.

A one metre Sea Hornet sounds really cool.....do you have any pictures to share with us on here? I can imagine that some nice chunky strakes would look good on that hull and I would expect them to help the performance........as your pal has already proven.

It would be good to find out how many strakes your pal fitted and where they stopped and started. This can make a difference - and he has the results - so it would be interesting to know how he configured his.

I have added some of my home made strakes to the Javelin in the hope that it will make a difference.  I got carried away once I had found a set-up to cut them on my small bandsaw and rattled off enough to fit the Swordsman and the Rapier (these have also been fitted!).

The strakes were formed from 6.5mm square obchie cut diagonally to give a nice chunky look.......and as the water is still 12" to the foot scale (!) I think having them a little over-sized may not be a bad idea.

Stay safe,

Bob.
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mrzippy

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #181 on: March 06, 2021, 11:38:30 am »

My pals hull mods were the same as you guys are now making - 3 small spray rails along each hull bottom skin parallel with the keel,
plus one along the chine blended in with car body filler to create lift, it makes a difference to the performance.
Paul
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #182 on: March 09, 2021, 05:56:44 pm »

Thanks for the info Paul. Mine are a bit wavy and uneven now so will need to fill them or start again...


Progress on my Javelin has been extremely slow as I’ve been pondering where to put the various electronic bits, how to tackle the paint removal and engine mounting on this old model. I don’t want to ruin it so am taking my time, sketching ideas and coming up with possible solutions. I’ve been reading through lots of threads in the “how to” section on painting etc and have realised that there are a multitude of ways to skin a cat.


As I’m new to the hobby really after so long away from model building I think I’m a bit afraid of making a mess of it!


I have bitten the bullet and ordered some Perma-Grit items to assist me in this quest having read about their longevity and effectiveness. I’ve gathered all the bits I need. I now have the time consuming job of sanding off the old paint.


Bob Zooma you made it look easy with yours but it must have taken some serious elbow grease! My job is also a bit more fiddly as I have to sand between my strakes. Unless I end up scrapping them! See how it goes.


Full scale work has also got in the way as has some gardening and decorating to be done so I’m sorry to say it’s not getting there anytime soon.


I look forward to being able to post some real progress and have realised that it would be quicker to build myself a Lesro Arrow than do my refurb! However I am attached to my Javelin after all these years. I read on another thread, Bob that you had returned to some boats that you’d owned many years ago.


I’ve also been keeping a beady eye on eBay etc but all I see are either very expensive offers or some extremely poor offerings. No javelins or rapiers to my knowledge!







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2 Lesro Javelins... and that’s it. Not even close to finished!

zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #183 on: March 09, 2021, 06:29:16 pm »

The Perma-Grit tools you have just bought will prove to be a good investment Stuw as they are very helpful.  I have used mine a lot since I first had them and I am sure that you will find them really useful too.

I have fitted the engine mount and the rudder servo mounts into my Javelin and now also the ESC mounting tray.

Last night I wanted to fit a new blade in my band saw - but I ended up stripping the machine to give it a good clean and then setting everything up again after I put it back together.  It is now purring nicely but it took an evenings work away from making the battery holder tray to hold a pair of LiPo cells for the Javelin.

Once this last item of my internal hull fittings is finished, I can put some glass fibre resin and matting inside to armour the engine mount and generally coat the inside to help keep it strong and durable for many future years use.

You are right about my Javelin needing plenty of elbow grease to remove the glass fibre jacket that was around the hull, but without doing that I did not know if this coating was hiding anything bad underneath - it was also making the hull a lot heavier than it needed to be and I wanted to get back to the wood so I had something to glue my new strakes onto!

If you are still thinking about replacing your strakes, sanding the old ones off with your new Perma-Grit tools will make a reasonably fast and easy job of it leaving you with a nice flat surface to glue your new strakes onto.

Used Rapiers and Javelins do come up for sale now and again - but often the seller does not know what they are - so you need to look for the shapes and the size and not rely on them being correctly named.

My "new to me" Rapier 2 was not advertised as a Rapier and my Javelin was not advertised as a Javelin - but I recognised the shapes and the length of the hull on the eBay listings and they turned out to be exactly what I had hoped they were.

Yes - I am also interested in many of the classic r/c model boats from the '60s and have others to work on as well as the Javelin, but I am enjoying the Javelin re-build and I am looking forwards to running it alongside my Rapier later this year when we are all allowed out to play safely again  :-))

Stay safe - Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #184 on: March 12, 2021, 10:08:45 am »

Ok. I’ve gone for strake replacement. My balsa ones are soft and lost their edge. The thought of trying to fill an edge on has been replaced with the intent to remove and replace with obechie strip as Bob’s look great.


I don’t have a bandsaw and although Bob offered very kindly to assist me, I have carved one so far by hand from a square to triangular section using my bushcraft knife. I found it quite therapeutic and feel my old Javelin deserves the addition of new “hand carved” strakes. Perhaps a little wasteful, but the shavings make great tinder for lighting the coal BBQ later this year! (I don’t do chemical accelerants, I digress however!)


I have also taken a careful chisel (if there is such a thing) to my old strakes with success.


So progress...


Pictures:

1- old strake lost its edge
2- handiwork
3- new strake
4- comparison
5- chisel old strake


Photos get a bit squashed so strakes look uneven but are from square section.


Also my Perma-Grit box of goodies arrived! All the gear but no idea? Hope not!


On a side note - I sourced a motor and ESC combination way back last April as I was trying to get a suitable power source to replace the old glow engine. As I had no real idea of brushless motors and Kv etc I did my own research but hadn’t stumbled across this great place! (If I had I would have been able to provide zooma with some Javelin company earlier!).


It turns out that my choice of power source to match a Proboat Sonicwake might be a bit over the top! I’ve finally got round to watching some YouTube clips of this craft and although it’s often powered by more than 2S 7.4v, it is a beast! Obviously the hull shape, mass and prop/rudder setup is way different to my ply hull Javelin but I shall be cautious when testing!


A question for Bob - when you bonded your new strake with CA did you just apply the adhesive to the bare sanded surfaces or treat with sanding sealer? Also was it “standard” CA household use or a special formula you would recommend? Mine won’t be going back on anytime soon but just been re-reading your “how to” posts again.


Thanks all.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #185 on: March 12, 2021, 11:09:18 am »

Your whittling skins with a bushcraft knife are superb Stuw - well done...............only another five to go  {-)

I used a very thin super-glue to bond my strakes directly onto the sanded bottom skin.  I bought mine from Richard at King Cobra Racing (01706 250007) and it is the type that they developed and use to hold the tyres onto the wheels of large scale racing cars, so it has to be super-strong to handle the brutal power that is put through them as well as the twisting stress that the tyres take during cornering, braking, and acceleration - all done very quickly and with a very fast heavy weight racing car.

This superglue is very thin and so it can wick (creep) into the fibres of the wood and provide a very strong bond. Its development also included the requirement to have a small amount of "flex" to add to its strength and durability. Most super-glues are quite brittle when dry and would not work as well when holding a racing tyre onto a rim as the flexing pressures would cause it to crack.

This tiny amount of "flex" is imperceptible but I am thinking that it could be an advantage for a job like this.

The glue also dries very quickly so I found it ideal for gluing the strakes on as I could work my way along them and hold the curvature in place - dab it with the super-glue  - hold it in place for a few seconds and then move on the the next small section etc. 

By starting at the front after shaping the end of the strake to fit against the inside edge of the bottom chine rail (at this stage the strake was being held upwards like an old type of semaphore car indicator) a small dab of the glue fixed it quickly in place against the skin and the chine rail.

Once this was fixed I was able to push the strake firmly against the skin and hold the next inch or so in the curvature needed as another dab of glue was applied to hold this next section in position.

By slowly working around the curvature at the bows I found it even easier to form the strakes shape than I had perviously done with steaming or soaking when using other methods.  I think it works so well because each very small part of the curved section is secured firmly in position and instead of cracking and snapping some of the strakes I had no failures at all.

Once the front curved section of the strakes were fixed in place (the hardest part) I held a steel straight edge against the remaining straight length (the easiest part) to check that the strakes were going to be as straight as I could make them and spotted them in place in small sections at a time until they were fixed in place along their entire length.

As each strake was fixed in place I then run the superglue along the entire outside edges of the strakes so it would "wick" its way into the fibres of the strake and the bottom ply skins..............and then repeated this 5 more times until all of the 6 strakes were fixed securely.

This process is actually very simple and does a nice job in a reasonably short time without the need to steam or soak the strakes or use any nails to pins that could cause the strakes to split or fracture.

A word of caution - I have not actually run the boat with these strakes fitted yet - so they could fall off !

The large scale racing cars are raced in all weather conditions (including rain and snow) and bond failure using this glue is not a problem.  Some model boat builders use super-glue exclusively in the construction of their model boats - and the don't fall apart - so I have every reason to believe that this method will keep the strakes firmly fixed to the hull.

A small test you could try to test your method and to see how good the bond is:-  Glue a small section of strake to some ply skin and make sure it is well fixed using the above method.  When it is dry - see if you can find any way of pulling them apart without destroying the wood.


It works for me  :-))
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #186 on: March 12, 2021, 12:14:23 pm »

Thanks Bob. Ok so it’s specialist stuff! Thanks very much for the info.


The old strakes are off without any issues. Careful chiselling and removal of brass nails. Interestingly the outer strakes were balsa and inner ones something like obechie hence why some had degraded more than others.


Now I can sand the hull in one area more easily and start whittling away for 5 more strakes  %%


I’ve had a productive morning, time for a lie down!  {-)




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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #187 on: March 12, 2021, 12:32:03 pm »

Nice work Stuw - enjoy your rest  {-)


Here is the link to the super-glue that I use:-


https://www.kingcobra.co.uk/search.asp?keyword=KCR+Thin+CA+Glue.


I have used both types and they both stick at least as good (or better) than any of the "big names" stuff that I have previously used.........and they are certainly NOT the most expensive at £4 for a 20g bottle.

I have done two complete hulls with strakes and several other jobs too and not used a full bottle yet - so it does go a long way.

The only difference between the two is that the "CA tyre glue" is supposed to dry with a slight "flex".

I have used both types and in the past I have sometimes picked the wrong bottle up by mistake and I cant see any difference - they both give a really powerful bond and  I don't know how to make a destruction test between them to test the "flex" difference between the two bonds - and to be honest I cant be bothered either - they both work really well and have a similar wicking (penetrating) quality so I use them both.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2021, 01:42:31 pm »

Ordered some! Not too pricey and it works as far as we know!
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #189 on: March 12, 2021, 03:29:36 pm »

Ordered some! Not too pricey and it works as far as we know!


Funnily enough - I have just ordered some more too!

I have used it for some time when making boat stands, squirrel boxes, building sub-assembles (lots of things) and repairs .....and my glass fibre hulled TID Tug was more or less assembled with it joining ABS/brass/white metal/glass fibre/platistrut/wood/plastic card/resin castings etc although the small plastic card sub-assemblies were put together with solvent before the completed units were fixed onto the tug with the super-glue.

The TID has been on the water for over three years now and nothing has fallen off.......yet.

When I wanted to make some changes to my first  squirrel box after it has been outside for two winters, I still found it impossible to break the bond where I had used this same super-glue so I think it will be OK on the strakes ..........but time will tell!
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ChrisF

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2021, 04:36:07 pm »

Your whittling skills are indeed impressive Stuw. Looking at the old strakes it was definitely the right decision to replace them. I tried to repair a small damaged section on one of my boats and had a right game getting the filler to hold.

For fixing the strakes I basically use the same process as Bob though I used Slo Zap slow cure CA to give me a bit more time to position the strakes. I've since been using thin CA where I previously used Slo Zap so may well use it for the next strakes.

Talking of squirrel boxes, I had a face to face with our resident mouse this morning when replenishing the peanuts! It stayed in there until I lifted the lid right up! It either eats the nuts or takes them back to its nest and has been known to empty the box overnight!

Chris
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Building Fairey Marine boats: River Cruiser 23 prototype, Huntress 23 Long Cabin with stern-drive, Huntsman 28, Huntsman 31 and Swordsman 33 and two more to come! All scratch built and to a scale of 1:12

zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2021, 10:14:48 pm »

This afternoon I decided to put some glass fibre resin and chopped matting inside the hull to armour-up the engine mount base in the engine bay, the LiPo tray mounts in the central cabin and some coating over the inserted plugs that were filling the holes left by the previous skeg, water pick-up scoop and rudder in the rear cab area.

Some chopped matting was roughly cut to shape for the areas that I wanted to cover and then the resin was mixed with the harder and brushed onto each section in turn, followed by the chopped matting that was then wetted and stippled down - followed by the next section until they were all coated.

I planned to do this job outside due to the smell, but it was far too cold to work outside and although my workshop/shed was not much warmer at least there was no wind, rain, or sleet to try to protect the boat from!

To be honest, the smell of the Fastglas was nothing like as bad as I remember it being in the summer - maybe the hot weather makes it give off stronger fumes, but doing the job inside was not at all bad and the cold weather never affected the drying of the resin - it was hard only 20 minutes later.

That is one of the reasons why I like working with glass fibre - it does not seem to be unduly affected by cold or hot weather as the chemical reaction of the harder seems to work just as well whether it is hot or cold.

Now that job is done I can get the motor mounting plate, LiPo tray and servo mounting tray fitted back inside hull and double check where I need some new holes to allow the various wires to pass neatly through the bulkheads and check the water cooling pipe routing etc.  Once it is all fitted, tested, and working well, it can all be taken back out again so I can paint the inside of the hull.
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #192 on: March 13, 2021, 12:01:45 am »

Well done Bob, another step forward in the project and another step closer to the water.


Will
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49" Precedent Perkasa
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #193 on: March 13, 2021, 10:04:52 am »

Well done Bob, another step forward in the project and another step closer to the water.


Will


Thanks Will,

I just noticed that my MAC based spell checker much prefers to call the Fastglas hardener "harder" - I should have spotted that !

Enjoy your weekend, get stuck into that  camper van! :-))

 Bob.
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mrzippy

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #194 on: March 13, 2021, 10:20:21 am »

Nice work going on here guys,  great to see you've discovered 'Perma-Grit' - the best thing since sliced bread IMHO,
I cannot imagine modeling these days without my files and sanding blocks, it's brilliant kit !

I can also recomend a 'brand new' Stanley knife blade, used as Cabinet Scraper for the initial levelling of the rough area
where your old strakes were mounted.

I use them to great effect for scraping planked decks flat - a good example springs to mind -
when using white plastic strip caulking between cherry planks (Riva style),
my stock bought plastic strips stood approx 2mm proud and a Stanley blade was the only thing that would take them down.
A new Permagrit block struggled with the plastic surface and kept clogging -
must emphasize it needs to be a new sharp blade for best results.

Paul
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #195 on: March 13, 2021, 12:05:03 pm »

Nice work Bob.


Paul, yes my Perma-Grit block and a couple of files arrived and I’ve already realised how fantastic they are! And Made in UK which is a rarity these days.


Stanley blade “top tip” duly noted.


My KCR CA is due to arrive today, amazing speed of shipment!
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2 Lesro Javelins... and that’s it. Not even close to finished!

Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2021, 07:03:18 pm »

Some progress today at paint removal. Helped by my new sanding block and my power sander.


Not there yet but steady progress outdoors. Trying not to annoy the neighbours with the noise!


The transom has come up nicely. Only grey filler was 25+ years ago when I changed my mind about glow exhaust location.


Taking all paint off to make sure the new paint doesn’t react with whatever I’d used all that time ago.


Goodbye old Javelin paint scheme (as per the Lesro box but changed my mind and put yellow over the orange as can be seen....)
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #197 on: March 13, 2021, 07:23:03 pm »

Some progress today at paint removal. Helped by my new sanding block and my power sander.


Not there yet but steady progress outdoors. Trying not to annoy the neighbours with the noise!


The transom has come up nicely. Only grey filler was 25+ years ago when I changed my mind about glow exhaust location.


Taking all paint off to make sure the new paint doesn’t react with whatever I’d used all that time ago.


Goodbye old Javelin paint scheme (as per the Lesro box but changed my mind and put yellow over the orange as can be seen....)


One step closer Stuw - and no doubt it gave you a welcome break from your strake whittling   O0

I have lost count of the number of holes I had to fill in on my Javelin hull - maybe 20 or 30 ?......including a very similar exhaust hole to yours in the transom!

All of the holes were plugged with tight fitting wooden inserts that mostly needed to be hammered-in after being coated with PVA and the large oblong skeg hole and the old position rudder and pick-up holes have also been covered over inside the hull with chopped matting and glass fibre resin.

Now I am fitting-out the inside of the hull with the shaft, coupling, motor, ESC, water cooling tube, rudder with arm and linkage and the steering servo and I also need to decide on the best location for the receiver and make a mounting shelf to carry it.

This afternoon I replaced the missing front section of the deck/bow side strake that was already broken-off when I bought it, but I won't be doing much more to the outside until after the inside is finished.

........hope your whittling is going well  :-))
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2021, 09:34:31 am »

If in doubt BUILD STRONG... %)
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #199 on: March 14, 2021, 10:43:23 am »

Brilliant! A picture tells a thousand words and that’s helped me with my ideas. As mine is also an old model I shall try some internal strengthening as well.


Bob it looks as though your Lipo tray is screwed in to allow it to be removed? I was thinking along similar lines to allow access below if needed.


My ESC will go forward of the rudder servo in rear compartment as I have more room there as my rudder post if further aft than yours. It is easier access than in the cockpit and will allow me to mount it as low as possible to keep CG as low as possible.
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