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Author Topic: Lesro Javelin  (Read 35810 times)

Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2021, 02:49:07 pm »

Bob,


Yes thank you for those points. I’ve now had a look at the Rapier thread as well. Nice layout and paint job. My motor has the wires at the rear end and they won’t let me reach the ESC without it sitting near the shaft in the cramped engine bay so I shall extend them but leave the LIpo wires as simple and short as possible.


Backerther,


I’m interested in seeing the different approaches to the problems. I like all your little rubber band mounts! Might go for a wooden option like Bobs though. Food for thought. Like the power transfer system! Am I right in thinking that once the first battery runs flat, the servo returns to its OFF position (perhaps a channel 3 On/OFF) and operates the micro switch which then gives you power from the next battery?


All this thinking is helping me through the Lockdown and keeping me busy. I’m not old enough to retire yet but work has dropped off for the moment so it’s good to keep the brain cells active and my mind elsewhere.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2021, 03:47:15 pm »

Hi Stuw,

Extending your motor leads is probably the easiest option if you don't have enough wire to connect them to your ESC, and is a better option than extending your battery wires to reach the ESC.

I use good quality 6mm gold plugs and sockets for the connection between my motors and ESC to help prevent current loss.  No joints at all are best of course (hardwire the motor and ESC ), but as few joints as possible with good connectors is the next best option.

Don't forget when you fit your new prop shaft to have as little overhang as possible - get your coupling as close to the end of the prop shaft tube as you can to avoid or reduce vibration.  Move the motor mount towards the end of the prop shaft tube if the gap is too big and chop off any inner shaft that protrudes further than it needs to.

This will also help to lower your motor height in the hull - another advantage!

If you are buying a new shaft assembly, you could check to see if it needs to be as long as it was for your ic engine?  The shorter the shaft that you can fit  - the better!

Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2021, 05:11:36 pm »

Nice one Bob. Very helpful points. First item will be to see if I can get the old shaft out!
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Backerther

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2021, 01:51:38 am »


Backerther,


I’m interested in seeing the different approaches to the problems. I like all your little rubber band mounts! Might go for a wooden option like Bobs though. Food for thought. Like the power transfer system! Am I right in thinking that once the first battery runs flat, the servo returns to its OFF position (perhaps a channel 3 On/OFF) and operates the micro switch which then gives you power from the next battery?


All this thinking is helping me through the Lockdown and keeping me busy. I’m not old enough to retire yet but work has dropped off for the moment so it’s good to keep the brain cells active and my mind elsewhere.


Hi Stuw;


Your understanding about my servo-switch is partly correct.
That is, the switch -ON will start to give power of the second battery to the motor TOGETHER with the first battery.
Therefore,servo will move to switch ON while it is kept off normally.That is because I call it"emergency switch."
So,a very tiny battery will sufficiently do if  used only for a recovery purpose.


 Backerther
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2021, 10:01:10 am »


Hi Stuw;


Your understanding about my servo-switch is partly correct.
That is, the switch -ON will start to give power of the second battery to the motor TOGETHER with the first battery.
Therefore,servo will move to switch ON while it is kept off normally.That is because I call it"emergency switch."
So,a very tiny battery will sufficiently do if  used only for a recovery purpose.


 Backerther


Good idea - especially if your ESC does not cut off soon enough or if you are a long way out from shore when the power cuts off.


Bob.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2021, 11:56:33 am »

Hi zooma;


Thank you for your kind comment on my posting.
A tiny spare battery is now used in my 99cm Jupiter F-99 as seen in the pic below,by which she is able to run
5 minutes or so at low speed for returning to me waiting ashore.! :embarrassed:
Safety return is most important point when it come to operating the boats on the comparatively large water
as seen in the following pics where I am enjoying the operation of the RC boats throughout a year including
winter to generate rough waves by the north wind,while summer is tooo hot.
See pics below.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2021, 05:21:16 pm »

Bob (and anyone else),Looking at changing my water pickup on my Javelin. I saw your Raboesch ones from another thread.

How do you secure the silicone tube to these? Just push fit? Also what tube diameter do you go for. Don’t want to get the wrong sizes!

Mine is currently a chunky plastic entry (with quite a large cross section) in line with the prop just behind it. If I locate a new one in the same place, not sure it will reach in far enough as the Javelin has its keel beam here? I could offset on one side through the skin instead?

Supplier recommendations gratefully accepted.


As an aside I carefully removed the cockpit deck area...
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2021, 06:06:10 pm »

Bob (and anyone else),Looking at changing my water pickup on my Javelin. I saw your Raboesch ones from another thread.

How do you secure the silicone tube to these? Just push fit? Also what tube diameter do you go for. Don’t want to get the wrong sizes!

Mine is currently a chunky plastic entry (with quite a large cross section) in line with the prop just behind it. If I locate a new one in the same place, not sure it will reach in far enough as the Javelin has its keel beam here? I could offset on one side through the skin instead?

Supplier recommendations gratefully accepted.



I use coloured silicone fuel tubing.  I buy mine from Rossendale Models as I know the type that they sell has a thick wall and grips tightly onto the inlet and outlet pipes of the pick-up, outlet, and the nipples on the ESC and the nipples on the water cooled mounts and water jackets.

Mounting your brass Raboesch pick-up in the same position as your existing plastic one will be fine - you can use the same hole.

Check the pictures on the Rapier thread (exactly the same hull!) where this tube is used.  The motors shown on the Swordsman thread are also shown with this same tube connecting the cooling nipples.

Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2021, 06:08:04 pm »

Thanks Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2021, 11:27:23 am »

You’ve probably seen this old thread but it has some great pictures of the box and construction.


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0



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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2021, 11:44:39 am »

You’ve probably seen this old thread but it has some great pictures of the box and construction.


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0


I had not seen this before Stuw - it is always interesting to see somebody else's build on a model that you are also working on, so thanks for sharing the link.  I enjoyed reading it.


We have a bit more info (and experience) available now about brushless motors that we can add to that good reference build, but even then (2011) the Powerflex coupling was favoured and is still my first choice today.


Dropping a brushless motor into that model would be nice and easy - and no doubt the builder has already done it by now?


Enjoy your weekend,


Bob.



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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2021, 06:40:44 pm »

I’m a bit obsessed with everything Javelin at the moment! It’s my focus to keep me from getting stressed with Lockdown 3.0.


I had success today getting the old prop shaft and tube out as you explained. Was worried I’d trash the boat but it came out with careful encouragement. My old shaft was bent!!  Possibly due to my glow plug engine and couplings arrangement not being sufficiently in line and up to the job. I managed to run it in the bath before embarking on the removal and had major vibrations at different rev ranges but lots of power with the DYNM 3915 unit at 1900kv.


Looking forward to getting the Javelin working again.


So removed:


-Prop shaft and tube


-water pickup (am replacing with better looking and more efficient unit as per yours)


-mid deck - wasn’t a hatch on mine but needed to get at the prop shaft and will add a hatch here


Had a think about location of:


- ESC


- lipos (will have 2 7.4v units to either run in series or parallel or alternate) - have plans to mount them in the stern away from the centreline to give a stabilising effect in turns I believe. I read about this somewhere but can’t find it now.


By the way if you would prefer I can stop hijacking your Javelin thread and create a separate one?


Or it might be nice to have different projects here together?


My old glow plug version had about 900g of ballast that I added in the stern to sit her in the water correctly as far as I could tell. Basically some large steel bolts in some plumbers mate! With the LIPos in the stern I’m almost there just need about 300g more.


I’ve played with location of the lipos and the CG location empty and with kit. Can’t recall if the plans mention a CG or the actual waterline?


How do your Javelin and Rapier sit in the water and do you use any ballast?


Sorry for rambling on. Bit excited to get the work underway today...

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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2021, 08:04:44 pm »

It's really encouraging when you have a good day and make some visible progress......and you have had a very good day!

Don't worry about hi-jacking this thread as its all about the Lesro Javelin - and that's what you are working on so you are in the right place!

When I started trying to highlight and focus on the classic old model boat designs from the 1960's (and earlier) I was hoping that it would encourage as many others as possible to get started on making or restoring some of these old classics and to get as many of them as possible back out on the water again to be enjoyed and for all to see and share.

For my money I have to say that many of these classics are still some of the best designed and most practical r/c model boats that you will ever see, many designed by some great model boat designers such as Vic Smeed and Les Rowell who started producing these pioneering designs for the average enthusiast to make at home back in the early 1950's.

They each have a construction that can be easily put together "on the kitchen table" with the minimum of expertise and tools. Every one of these classic designs has proven to be practical and "sea worthy" enough to cope with any situation that they could be reasonably expected to manage .......and often exceed this expectation quite considerably.

Whilst many strive endlessly for exact scale detail, these classic model boat designs gave a more than reasonable representation of a real or imaginary prototype and some of them (such as the Swordsman) can even hold their own when compared with many "true scale" models - and the truth is that when they are out on the water (doing what they were designed to do) they are every bit as good - and sometimes better!

Its a good job you came along really to keep this thread alive, my Javelin progress has been too slow as I have been trying to get the two Swordsman that I am working on up to a stage where I can leave them and wait for the warmer weather to come along when I can start to put some paint on them.

My Rapier is basically the same boat as the Javelin, and following it restoration it has endured its first heavy duty "shake-down" season where it has been used and abused - but mostly enjoyed!

The performance has far exceeded my expectations so you can be sure that once you get your brushless powered Javelin back on the water you are going to have some fun with it!

My Rapier sits nicely in the water using the two LiPo cells as the only ballast and has worked so well that I will copy this again for my Javelin.

I did fit trim tabs, but as the thread explains they were not needed - but they look good, so they can stay!

Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your progress with us!

Bob.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2021, 08:44:50 am »

Hi All
In an old Model Boats Special Mag the Lesro Models shown The Javelin and Rapier as the same size hulls (977 x 273mm).
The Stiletto and Arrow again the same size hulls (654 x 187mm).


So I think only the top is different!!!!


I like the look of the Sportman and Sprite.


Harry
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2021, 02:44:36 pm »

My Javelin is getting further from seaworthy before it gets better but I want to make this a long-lasting model.


In order to get her up and running:


- I have removed the brass rudder post as the glue holding it had cracked (I shall reuse this brass as it seems hard to come by and is in fine condition);


- removed the water cooling output nozzle as it was a nasty plastic botch that I want to replace;


- carefully removed the skin from the fore and aft hatches with craft knife and gentle persuasion with a chisel slid and twisted gently ( I wasn’t happy with the fit over the hull structure at the edges so will replace but try to use the hatch framework as they are in good condition). Inside was the pristine ply with the part numbers stamped on.


- I have ordered all sorts of items that I will need including a fret saw (ashamed to say I haven’t got one!), tack rags, P38, relevant primers and sanding paper 80, 180 and 600 for now. I’ve used some great threads on this forum to work out how to do it and what’s needed.  Can’t justify the space or expense of a scroll saw so will plan to do the work by hand as I’m not building a whole boat, just a few hatches, motor, etc and servo mounts!


- still awaiting packages from CMB and MBB to assist with new propshafts, couplings and ply.


I’ve received my second 7.4v 2S LIPO to balance the boat and provide me with more duration. My ESC allows them to be connected in series which I tried for fun without anything connected to the motor but I reckon nigh on 30,000 rpm is a bit excessive for my Javelin! We shall see.


My old prop is a 50mm red plastic one (X type?) so I’ve ordered another and a smaller one for some options.


Somewhat early but I’ve ordered some vinyl stickers to give me the “909” of the Javelin and a couple of union jacks. Waiting for trimline to get back in stock as most colours seem hard to come by at the moment.


For some reason some of my pictures have been squashed?!
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2021, 04:48:30 pm »

Hi All
In an old Model Boats Special Mag the Lesro Models shown The Javelin and Rapier as the same size hulls (977 x 273mm).
The Stiletto and Arrow again the same size hulls (654 x 187mm).


So I think only the top is different!!!!


I like the look of the Sportman and Sprite

Harry 


I like the look of the Sportsman too Harry - but I don't like the new version kit with the "flying bridge"on top  - it spoils the boat for me.

Last year I came across a copy of the plans for the original Sportsman, but as it was only the typical "kit plans" they are not too informative for a new build.....but they could come in handy one day!

The hull on the Rapier/Javelin and the Streaker all have the same hull.  I don't have a Stiletto but it looks like a smaller Rapier and probably does share the same hull with the Arrow.  I have an Arrow kit tucked away for a "rainy day" but I have not been able to find a Stiletto, but if I do it would be nice to have a mini-Rapier to keep in the car !

Stay safe!

Bob.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2021, 04:53:07 pm »

Stuw,

I think you are well and truly hooked!

Welcome to the Classic Model Boat Restoration Society   %%

It's all downhill from now onwards.

Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2021, 05:26:17 pm »

Bob,

Thanks for the welcome. This place is great!

Yes I’ve got the motivation and time to sort it at the moment! And the ability to share progress with like minded people on here!


My wife doesn’t get it but is happy for me to disappear into the garage for a few hours here and there and out of her hair! I like your mantra of a boat that looks good from 20 yards and prefer to have a go on the water but also enjoy the process of messing about with wood and glue.


I hadn’t thought about where to be able to test her out once lockdown eases. Not as many boating lakes as there used to be I believe with restrictions to protect wildlife habitats (fair enough). Found one at a golf club near me but they don’t permit fast boats!


You seem to have most of the UK Rapier fleet in your possession.  {-)

[size=78%]Perhaps I will tackle one at some point if I can get one. First I must see how this Javelin goes![/size]
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ChrisF

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2021, 05:55:51 pm »

Stuw,

I think you are well and truly hooked!

Welcome to the Classic Model Boat Restoration Society   %%

It's all downhill from now onwards.

Bob.



I'm not in that one but am in FABS -  Fairey Appreciation and Builders Society.


My wife is pretty easy going but does make comments like " You're not building another one are you?", "Where's that one going?" and "When are you going to finish one?"  :embarrassed:
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2021, 06:23:55 pm »

Stuw,

The Rapier and the Javelin/Streaker share exactly the same hull.

If you ever find another Javelin/Streaker and fancy a Rapier, I took a copy of the cabin sides when I cut them off of mine that you can have.

I used these shapes to cut the new cabin sides from 4mm ply for my Rapier restoration and they look OK and make it easy to convert a Javelin/Streaker into a Rapier.

LesRo told me that they sold a lot more Javelins than they ever sold Rapiers, and that is why there are a lot less of them about.

Not everyone likes the look of the Rapier (including myself when I first saw them) but they are a classic and they do have a fairly unique look that is easily recognisable and seem to be more liked now than it was back in the 1960's!

Bob.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2021, 06:29:33 pm »

Hi Chris,

There is not much to choose between the two hastily invented model boat making Societies.......and absolutely NO difference whatsoever in the reaction from SHMBO to either of them  %)
Stay safe - and keep making and repairing those Classic model boats  :-))

Bob.


I'm not in that one but am in FABS -  Fairey Appreciation and Builders Society.

My wife is pretty easy going but does make comments like " You're not building another one are you?", "Where's that one going?" and "When are you going to finish one?" 
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2021, 08:43:34 pm »

I took a look at the Javelin tonight and thought I would start by seeing if I could remove the brass water pick-up pipe that was mounted against the propeller and needed to be re-located to allow the propeller to be able to turn.

My reason for looking at the Javelin was to fit some strakes while I had a good fixing method fresh in my mind that had worked well on the Rapier yesterday.

The brass pick-up tube had gone brittle and sheared-off fairly easily.  When I tried to remove the remains of the threaded brass stub there was a cracking sound and a small sheet of filler paste snapped off from the area around the rudder and water pick-up - and it had actually covered over the mounting nuts of both.

With the filler paste now broken away in that immeadiate area, I inserted a new rudder and it is now able to rotate - something that it could not do previously due to the heavy coating of filler paste in that area.

The entire hull is beautifully smooth and I now suspect that it has been entirely covered over with filler paste - and from what I can see from the fractured piece that has come away - it has been applied over the existing shiny blue painted hull, so it will have had no preparation and is unlikely to be secure and if left, it would be liable to fracture off at any time in the future - and that could be embarrassing!

Now I know this I will have to remove all of this filler paste to expose the wood underneath  (and give me something something solid to glue the strakes onto), but I also need to see if anything has been hidden under this coat of filler paste that may also need some attention (what a suspicious mind!).

This will be a messy job that would be better done outdoors, so the Javelin is likely to get put away again until we see some warmer weather.

Before giving up on the boat (for now) I  did shorten the prop shaft by 7/8" as one end of the shaft had very little inner shaft protruding into the engine bay and its rusted threaded section was turning inside the prop shaft bearing! 

By cutting the prop shaft down at the transom end I also moved the prop forwards by 7/8" so that can only be a good thing. I fitted an X50 prop and there is still a lot of clearance under the hull for it to rotate easily if I ever needed to use a prop this big and it should help the performance of the boat.

The inner shaft now enters the engine bay with enough exposed shaft for me to be able to cut off the rusted end of the shaft and still leave enough plain shaft for me to get an M5 collet fitted and to use my preferred M5 Plain shaft PowerFlex coupling.

While the inner shaft was out I rolled it on the machined band saw table surface and it rolled true with no whip.

I reinserted the nylon (!) bearing that was left inside the part of the tube that I had cut off, but I will probably change both bearings at some stage for a pair made from phospher bronze (if I can find a short length to machine down) or I could use some brass bar,  or ask around to see if I can buy a new pair of bearings that are "ready made" so I only have to press them in.

This is looking like it could turn into another major rebuild rather than a minor refit.....how lucky am I ? >:-o
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madwelshman

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2021, 09:40:30 pm »

Bob, that sounds like a right nightmare to be greeted with.
The plus side is that you have found it at the right time and can resolve the issue before it raises it's head, probably just when you think you are coming to the end.


These things are sent to try us, so keep at it, you'll get there and the end result will be worth it.


Will
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49" Precedent Perkasa
46" Aerokits Sea Queen
42" Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 x2
34" Lesro Sportsman mk1
34" Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 x3
34" Aerokits Sea Commander x2
29" Aerokits Sea Rover
20" Aerokits Fast Patrol Boat
16" Aerokits Sea Urchin

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2021, 09:53:56 am »

Before a previous owner coated the hull with filler paste, the bottom had been sanded completely flat so the square angled corners of the rubbing strakes has been removed and the some of the width has been sanded away too.

The lower chine strakes need to be full width and sharp edged to give the best performance and the slight angle change from the bottom skin is important too - and this has been sanded away.

I may start by sanding the remains of the rubbing strakes away so the joint between the side skins and bottom skins are exposed.  The strakes need to be replaced in any case, and this will expose the edge of the skins so I can see how thick the filler paste coating is (at least at the sides).

After that I will attack the bottom skin covering first so I can find out what the filler paste is hiding, make the repair, fit new rubbing strakes, and then I can fit the three bottom strakes on each side of the bottom skin........which is where all this started!
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2021, 10:01:19 am »

Definitely sounds like a job for warmer weather! My progress has been slow but steady. Unlike other people’s pictures of high quality craftsmanship, at the moment my work looks shocking perhaps but it’s getting worse before it gets better hopefully!


I’ve removed a lot of what looks like blue silicone sealant that I’d used along some inner hull section seams to prevent water moving from one section to another. Effective but tricky and messy to scrape out.


The forward section had been treated to a lining of heat reflective adhesive foil tape. When the IC motor was the power source I decided to put this is to help protect the hull from heat. It seems to have also protected it from the sticky glow fuel residue as well. It won’t come off in large sections however. After 25+ years it is stubborn. Patience and care with a flat head screwdriver/chisel to scrape it off is yielding results very slowly. 


I am looking at what to do with my strakes. I may keep them as they are and fill them or bite the bullet and remove them and perhaps take up your very kind offer Bob of assisting with preparing the wood.


My construction technique decades ago on my Javelin was to nail the strakes in situ with little brass nails. Not as subtle as just temporarily tacking them as you once did Bob!


I also used these to fix the bulkheads to the skin or vice versa. Nice and solid but the nail heads show up through the paint. Perhaps if I sanded the heads that would be enough? Should these nails stay in situ? If necessary i was going seal all bulkhead lower edges with epoxy putty to make them more watertight and separate in case of water ingress. My rear cabin bulkhead might be delaminating around a hole made to allow wires to pass through.


I started to remove lots of nails from the strakes as they now look so obvious. As they penetrated through the skin I can push them back out from inside and retrieve them. I now have lots of 1mm or less holes to seal/fill.


Questions:


1. Can I use aliphatic wood glue to fill these initially or is P38 ok/ better?


2. I plan to strip the hull back to the ply before repainting etc. Would anyone just primer paint onto this or would you put something else first eg varnish?


My boat doesn’t have any Glassfibre coating on it as I’ve read many do. I don’t want to go down this route as the Javelin didn’t need it in my opinion. Or am I wrong? I prefer to keep my Javelin as conventional and old school in build techniques as possible. Apart from hitec glues, fillers and paints and electronics of course!
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2 Lesro Javelins... and that’s it. Not even close to finished!
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