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Author Topic: Lesro Javelin  (Read 3844 times)

zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #125 on: February 20, 2021, 09:47:49 pm »



Not a gin palace Tony - just an updated Rapier!

......but white and chrome.......really? O0

I may have to make some changes yet to accommodate where the Rapier cab sides bend inwards (just after bulkhead B3) at the base of the wheelhouse front screens. 

My design will work better with straight cab sides so I will have to see if the hull shape can accommodate this

This afternoon I cut a pair of 4mm sides on the bandsaw (no windows yet).  This gives me some 3D shapes to work with so I can see if the idea will work or not.

Time will tell................

Stay safe,

Bob.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2021, 09:44:13 am »

Happy Sunday (every day feels like one a time the moment!) all,


Out of interest, my Javelin forward cabin sides are curved slightly (not warped though, looks like they were made like this). Whether I put them together incorrectly I donít know.


The forward hatch roof sides were a straight line so it never fitted completely in the mid section. I see others mention having to reshape the hatch roof.


Tried to show the curve in the photo....but this forum has squashed the picture to exaggerate it!


Having looked back at yours Iíve spotted what looks like the same phenomenon on your Javelin Bob as mine. Rear hatch cover not quite covering sides behind cockpit. It might not matter but it slightly bugs me that the hatch didnít look as flush as it could!
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2021, 10:35:38 am »

Hi Stuw,

If you are making new hatch covers it is easy to make the new ones fit better.

The cab sides are not straight - as the 4mm sides bend inwards towards the bows they curve slightly.

When you fit the new ply skins to cover the hatch top,  leave them wider than the sides of the boat until after they are completely dried.

With the new hatch fitted in place, run a sharp pencil against the cab sides and along the underside of the hatch skins whilst keeping it pressed down on the cabin.

The pencil line on the underside of the new hatch skin will accurately show the curved outside shape of the cabin sides drawn on the underside of the ply skin covering.

Sand back to this pencil line (checking the fit often to make sure everything is going OK) until the hatch cover is only slightly wider than the cabin sides.

The hatch top can now be fitted back onto the boat and sanded absolutely flush with the cab sides by sanding it and the cab sides together to become the perfect match.

.....or at least - thats how I would do it - if I wasn't making a new cab shape instead!

Enjoy your Sunday!

Bob.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2021, 11:31:01 am »

Hi All
I only 2mm for my cabin sides and 4mm for the frames.


The hull frames 4mm and 8mm for the keel.
Stringers 4mm square.


Harry

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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2021, 08:39:25 pm »

I have been trying to find something to give a bit more use to the rough side of my Perma-Grit sanding blocks as I find lots of uses for the smooth side, but not too much for the course side.

Whilst I am waiting for the M5 prop shaft to arrive from MBB for Rapier 2, my eyes again found the Javelin still on the shelf waiting for some better weather so that I could attack the filler paste covered hull  - firstly to find our what "nasties" may be hidden underneath all that filler, and secondly to take it back to raw wood so I can fit some strakes to the underside.

I also want to replace the side strakes as they are far too small, and the lower ones have been sanded flat to the hull bottom and have therefore lost their function, and the deck edge rubbing strips are not only too small - but they have been totally sanded away in places.

Solution - attack the hull with the course side of the Perma-Grip sanding blocks as it should make a lot less mess than the power sander and so I can do it in my workshop(shed) without having to wait for better weather.

The first thing I did was to sand away the lower side strakes so that I could see just how thick the filler paste coating had been laid-on as I would be able to see a cross section of it as the edges become visible once they had been removed.

The rough side of the Perma-Grit sanding black destroyed the side strakes chewing away the hardwood with little effort and exposing the depth of the filler paste coating.  This coating did not look to be too thick so I decided to remove it with the sanding block.

The sanding block just slid across the surface of the filler paste, so I flipped it over and used the coarse side again......and this also just slid across the top of the surface.  I attacked the surface again with some serious welly - and this time it reluctantly began to abrade - slightly!

Four hours later (!) I had begun to make an impression - this is seriously tough stuff - what a shame I have to remove it.  At this stage my hands were getting really painful as "Arthur" decided to remind me of his presence so I had to take a rest from sanding.

By way of a change, I cut the prop shaft in front of the large P bracket and ripped the bracket out of the hull to expose the sawn-off end of the prop shaft.  The well-proven "percussion" method of removing the prop shaft was employed (I hit it with a hammer) and then the brass rudder tube was
chiselled away from its covering of filler past (on the underside) and its much heavier covering of clear resin on the inside of the hull that had been used to embed it.

This now left the underside of the hull clear to be "roughed" back down to shape and for the glass fibre paste to be fully sanded to reveal the ply hull bottom skin (and whatever else may be lurking underneath!).

After a rest and something to eat I will go back out to the workshop(shed) later tonight and see if I can at least remove all of the paste from the bottom surface so I can attack the sides tomorrow.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2021, 09:12:43 pm »

Happy sanding Bob! What about hammer and chisel to the filler? Iím still waiting for my wood to arrive...


Still deciding on where/how to mount ESC, rudder servo and batteries. Only fixed parameter is the motor location!



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ChrisF

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2021, 10:31:54 pm »

Hi Bob

I use the coarse side of my blocks quite a lot, mainly for sanding the edges of ply, the keel and chine stringers and for balsa blocks before I use the fine side.

That filler is a real pain though they made a good job of applying it and getting a smooth finish! It must weigh a bit as well?

It will be good to get it off though and see what it covers and then prepare and finish the hull in the more usual way!

Chris
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2021, 10:47:30 pm »

Happy sanding Bob! What about hammer and chisel to the filler? Iím still waiting for my wood to arrive...


Still deciding on where/how to mount ESC, rudder servo and batteries. Only fixed parameter is the motor location!


Hi Stuw,

I chopped out the false floor that probably had the fuel tank on it so that I can make and fit another twin LiPo tray the same as I have on Rapier 1 and that I have also made for Rapier 2.  It works really well in practice and so I will stay with it.

I have also made another ESC tray and a servo mount - again both are copies of the ones used on Rapier 1.  The steering servo will be mounted in exactly the same place, but the Javelin body survived the butchery tonight so it may just stay as a Javelin and I will use my "Super Rapier" body design on a new build so I can change the bulkhead shapes and positions as I build everything up onto the keel.

Good luck with your r/c and LiPo positioning.  I may move my ESC into the engine bay due to the low floor of the Javelin cockpit but I will have to extend the power leads that run to the LiPo's.  I will give it "a good coat of looking at" as I fit the strakes  - I will have plenty of time to think about it and try some ideas out.

Bob.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2021, 11:01:12 pm »

Hi Bob

I use the coarse side of my blocks quite a lot, mainly for sanding the edges of ply, the keel and chine stringers and for balsa blocks before I use the fine side.

That filler is a real pain though they made a good job of applying it and getting a smooth finish! It must weigh a bit as well?

It will be good to get it off though and see what it covers and then prepare and finish the hull in the more usual way!

Chris


Hi Chris,

The filler was really well applied (professionally I suspect in a car bodywork ?) and it was as smooth as glass - a perfect finish - but it was also as hard as glass too, and getting the sander to actually "bite" into the surface took a serious amount effort and time!

I have finally got the bottom coating removed completely and it has not revealed any serious problems, so I guess it was only applied to give the hull the "perfect finish".........that I have now destroyed!

With the glass fibre jacket removed and the 1/2" thick false cockpit floor chopped out the hull is noticeably lighter in weight - as you suspected.

Hopefully I can start to fit some strakes tomorrow - I have cut enough ready to do the job with.  I would like to use super-glue for this - but some suggest that it is not good enough and that it will fail when it gets wet!  I think I am going to go for it anyway  - but keep an eye on it!

Bob.

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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2021, 07:59:16 am »

Youíve been busy! Part of my dilemma in positioning the ESC is as you suggest. The cockpit access  is a bit limited once the cockpit screen is fixed in place versus the Rapier as far as I can tell. Hence toying with ESC in with rudder servo or further forward with motor. I had a look online at those Perma-Grit blocks - not cheap but last well?
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2021, 10:34:33 am »

Youíve been busy! Part of my dilemma in positioning the ESC is as you suggest. The cockpit access  is a bit limited once the cockpit screen is fixed in place versus the Rapier as far as I can tell. Hence toying with ESC in with rudder servo or further forward with motor. I had a look online at those Perma-Grit blocks - not cheap but last well?


My son bought me a longer size Perma-Grit sanding block for my birthday last year and a half-round one for Christmas this year - and I bought one for myself last year and one this year too, so I have a complete set of them built up over the last 18 months or so.


I probably use the longer one with the chisel shaped end the most.


They have lasted OK but they have a small amount of localised "clogging" that would benefit from cleaning. They say to use "paint cleaner".  I am not sure what they mean as they don't say paint "stripper" so I will try washing them with white spirit and a brush first and see how that works.


Putting the ESC in the rear compartment with the steering servo is not a bad idea - I will take a look at that as there is plenty of spare space in there and as the ESC does not weigh much it won't make a lot of difference to the balance.
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2021, 11:41:23 am »

This is a possible position. Not so keen to have to chop into bulkheads having done it! The Lipo leads are quite chunky. Lots of holes left over from my IC throttle control routes and initial ic exhaust running to aft and exit from transom (subsequently changed to hole in forward cabin side for exhaust to find itíd way out!


I will try to fill with appropriate ply thicknesses as youíve done on your Rapier to tidy it up.
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2021, 11:45:52 am »

That looks good Stuw - and it keeps the thick wires to the LiPos as short as possible  :-))
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ChrisF

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2021, 02:46:43 pm »

Stu

Like Bob I have some of the blocks, long, short and half-round and a set of files. They are expensive but they are invaluable and make some tasks easier than they would otherwise be, like profiling the keel and stringers prior to skinning and filing out the channel for the prop shaft. I've resisted buying any of the other tools though! Well so far!

For unclogging I use a specific wire brush from Axminster tools. They used to do a liquid for the job but only do a large size of another type now which is too expensive for what I'd use.

Chris
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2021, 04:20:50 pm »

Stu

Like Bob I have some of the blocks, long, short and half-round and a set of files. They are expensive but they are invaluable and make some tasks easier than they would otherwise be, like profiling the keel and stringers prior to skinning and filing out the channel for the prop shaft. I've resisted buying any of the other tools though! Well so far!

For unclogging I use a specific wire brush from Axminster tools. They used to do a liquid for the job but only do a large size of another type now which is too expensive for what I'd use.

Chris


Hi Chris,

I have tried a wire brush to un-clog my Perma-Grit tools, but some of the clogging (probably from glass fibre and epoxies and paint etc) is proving harder to shift and I don't want to get too heavy handed with the wire brush for fear of blunting the abrasive surface.

I have yet to try any sort of liquid so maybe when I have finished fitting the strakes to my Javelin today I will start by testing one with a soak in white spirit followed by a wire brush and see if that can shift it.

I am hoping that super-glue will hold my strakes on OK - it is certainly much faster than using PVA (with lots of brass nails) - I am not using any nails at all with this method and I just hold a small section in place, dab on some super glue and move along to the next bit making the curvatures as I go!

When the length is fitted in place I then run super-glue along the entire length on both sides.

Very fast and very simple - I just hope it proves to be durable!

Stay safe,

Bob.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #140 on: February 24, 2021, 06:30:09 pm »

The constructive dismissal of half a Javelin.....
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2021, 07:30:43 pm »

Thanks for putting the pictures up for me Tony.

Today all of the new strakes and lower spray rails have been fitted and I have removed the plug of filler paste that was holding the large "P" bracket in place and I am hoping to drift-in a block of wood that I can Araldite into place to plug the gap. This large oblong hole went completely through the hull so I am preparing the "letter box" shape ready to plug it.

I will need to fill the water pick-up and the rudder location holes as I will be re-positioning them a little further forward as this revised layout has worked so well for me on Rapier1. The propeller/pick-up/rudder will not be quite so far forwards as it is on Rapier1 but they will be further away from the transom than the LesRo kit plans measurements.

I gave Steve a call at MBB today and he was just about to start making my 12" M5 prop shaft for Rapier2 and he was happy to make another one at the same time for use in this Javelin, so hopefully I can start to fill the other large hole in the hull with a prop shaft, and drill some new ones to take the rudder and water pick-up very soon to keep the momentum going.
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #142 on: February 25, 2021, 09:45:53 am »

The start of the resurgence................
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Stuw

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #143 on: February 25, 2021, 10:40:33 am »

What a transformation! My wood should arrive today so that I can start on the beefed up motor mount over the weekend perhaps. Working out mounts for servo and ESC Iím looking to incorporate blue anodized aluminum removable mounts instead of ply constructions. Hopefully it will come together and look and work effectively.


Iím going for a twin arm connection to rudder servo for push and pull to avoid issues if pushrod bends on the push. I notice most seem ok with just single link though?

]Iíve also gone for a higher torque servo as Iíd figured the forces on the rudder at speed could exceed the regular servo capabilities but perhaps Iíve gone OTT! :o
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #144 on: February 25, 2021, 11:19:38 am »

What a transformation! My wood should arrive today so that I can start on the beefed up motor mount over the weekend perhaps. Working out mounts for servo and ESC Iím looking to incorporate blue anodized aluminum removable mounts instead of ply constructions. Hopefully it will come together and look and work effectively.


Iím going for a twin arm connection to rudder servo for push and pull to avoid issues if pushrod bends on the push. I notice most seem ok with just single link though?

]Iíve also gone for a higher torque servo as Iíd figured the forces on the rudder at speed could exceed the regular servo capabilities but perhaps Iíve gone OTT! :o


Thanks Stuw,

Last night I plugged the letter-box type slot that was left when the large P bracket was pulled out and cut some dowel to plug the holes left by the rudder and the water pick-up scoop.  The hardwood plugs have all been made a "force fit" and tapped in with a hammer after coating with 24hr Araldite.  When the epoxy has dried I will saw off and sand the plugs back to give a smooth finish to the underside of the hull.

I use a 3mm push-rod with an anodised alloy captive ball joint to connect the servo to the tiller arm.  These red anodised rod ends can be found on the Bay  and they give a really trick looking linkage - but I have not seen them in blue.  3mm threaded push rods can also be bought from the same source.

A bent 90 degree end passes through the alloy servo arm with a 3mm collet underneath to hold it it place - on some fast boats (like the Blackjack 29 I have just listed on the Bay) I go one stop further and fit the FG throttle override device to give fast precise adjustment too!

You could use an alloy ball joint on both ends of the rod if you use 3mm threaded studding (or cut a 3mm thread on the end as required) to look super-trick!

The 3mm push rod is rock solid, so if that should ever bend the rest of the hull and/or rudder must have taken a massive hit!

I also fit fast high-torque metal geared servos for peace of mind as much as enjoying the fast steering response. OTT maybe - but nice  :-))
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mbm999

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #145 on: February 25, 2021, 12:04:55 pm »

I noticed this on the permagrit website.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried it!

https://www.permagrit.com/cleaningkit/

Cheers,
Mark
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zooma

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #146 on: February 25, 2021, 12:11:50 pm »

I noticed this on the permagrit website.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried it!

https://www.permagrit.com/cleaningkit/

Cheers,
Mark


Thanks Mark,

The Pukka Paint Strippa on the official site......£10.20 with vat and includes a small wire brush.

Stay safe,

Bob.
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ChrisF

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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #147 on: February 25, 2021, 09:46:14 pm »

Thanks for the link Mark. As well as my PermaGrit blocks some of my other normal steel files are a bit clogged (never used to happen before I started building model boats!) and need a clean. Trouble is I've been looking at the PermaGrit needle files and rotary tools now!

Those push-rods and connectors that you use sound nice Bob. I'll have to get one for the Swordsman and maybe the Huntsman!

Stu - some folks specify push/pull as good practice especially if rudder loads are high e.g. a big fast boat or if the rods are long but for lower loads and shorter rods a single rod is perfectly fine. I think I read somewhere that single rods can lead to more wear of the servo as one part is loaded more than the other but this can take a long time with the amount that most models are used and servos are cheap enough anyway and if you use good quality it's unlikely to be a problem really.

Chris
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #148 on: February 25, 2021, 10:38:18 pm »

Hi Chris,


Thanks for that. Iím probably using M2 rod with push and pull and as you say it will spread load on servo. Iíve ordered a couple of red anodized connectors. Red white and blue theme (and a bit of orange) coming along inside the boat (once itís all cleaned up)


Bob,


I had got a load of M2 rods and may as well use them now so will go with push/pull and see how it goes!
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Re: Lesro Javelin
« Reply #149 on: Yesterday at 10:04:09 am »

Hi Stuw,

I have used closed loop (push-pull) installations many times in the past - it is more or less standard practice for many r/c helicopter functions and it gives a balanced output to the servo, and if you have plenty of spare 2mm push-rods you may as well use them up.

As a matter of interest, bicycle spokes can be a good source of push rods and they are available in various colours too!

I am happy using a 3mm single push-rod for my servo to rudder operation - but some of the fancy alloy turnbuckles that are used on r/c cars could look quite "trick" too!

Colour coding your boats interior sounds good - I went part way with the Rapier1 and since the refit the interior is now a pale gloss grey throughout with a red anodised knob to hold the coloured LiPo retaining bar in place and the red anodised rod end on the push-rods is a start but it would be possible to go much further and make a fully customised look.

To be honest, painting anything at the moment is a problem for me - I need to get something "sorted" - especially for spray painting in my workshop (shed) without choking or getting over-spray drift covering everything in sight!

Bob.
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