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[zooma]

Brilliant! A picture tells a thousand words and that’s helped me with my ideas. As mine is also an old model I shall try some internal strengthening as well.


Bob it looks as though your Lipo tray is screwed in to allow it to be removed? I was thinking along similar lines to allow access below if needed.

Hi Stuw,

Yes on Rapier1,  I permanently bonded-in the LiPo tray, engine mounting plate, ESC shelf and the steering servo mounts with 24hr Araldite.

The top plates were all bonded onto the support mounts and the complete units bonded into the hull.

Because all the above mounts have worked so well in Rapier1, I have copied them again for use in Rapier2 and Javelin. This is unusual because usually after a year or so of good regular use it is always possible to "improve" or "correct" any small niggles - but all of them have been proven to work well and not cause me any problems - which is almost a shame as I like to modify and improve - but this time I cant!

The change this time around is that I screwed the top plates onto the mounts and then epoxied the assemblies into position.  When the epoxy had set, I unscrewed the top plates from the mounts, removed them, and reinforced the mounts into the hull with the resin and matting as seen in the pictures above.

The reason for doing this is that with the original (and more usual) method of fixing everything into the hull I cannot see what is underneath or how well the epoxy has covered and spread around the mounts.  This revised method allows me to be certain that the mounts are well secured and laminated into the hull.

I also thought that in the event of an accident that holed the hull, it would be easier to repair if I could get to work on both sides of the bottom skin
and this method gives me complete access just by unscrewing the various top plates if needed.

Having said that - now that I know the mounts for the engine plate , LiPo tray and servo mounts are really secure I may just bond the motor mounting tray onto the mounts anyway (!) ......as I like the motor mount in particular to be rock solid and I don't think that screwing it onto the mounts will be anything like as ridged as they would be if they were bonded down with 24hr Araldite...................

The ESC shelf (not shown in any of the pictures) has been made to be bolted onto the firewall bulkhead.  I did this so I have the option of mounting it on either side of this bulkhead, but as everything has come together I think it will be staying under the cockpit floor as my fears of not having enough room for it were unfounded - it all fits in very neatly.

Last night I undercoated the inside of the hull and it is now looking a lot cleaner (or as clean as a rebuild hull that had previously been fitted with a glow motor and fuel tank etc can be !).  I was tempted to spend a few hours sanding-out every little lump, bump and ridge from the previous mountings but then I decided that life was too short - and in any case, they add a little character that the boat has gained form its previous history!

Enjoy your weekend!.

Bob.

[Stuw]

Yes, having a removable bulky Lipo tray I agree with for the reasons you state.


Ref the motor mount I too was torn between epoxy or removable and was worried that if just screwed in might be an issue with vibration or not as strong so am favouring bonding it as well given my motor size and possible rpm levels.


I was thinking of filling and smoothing out as well. But as you say “it shows the boat’s character!” I shall however plug the large square hole in the forward bulkhead (engine bay to cockpit) as the bulkhead is rather flexible and likely to resonate.


Lots of work ahead!

[Stuw]

Finished whittling the 6 strakes from obechie strip! Interesting how the grain changed direction along the strips. Had to be careful not to break any. All done without trouble.


I put them on hull to show but not going on anytime soon as I still have a lot of sanding to do to remove the old paint. I do have the KCR flexible CA ready in my store when the time comes to attempt attachment.


Have spent many hours recently trawling through all useful posts on painting to adhesives to the Swordsman build from 2007.

[zooma]

Finished whittling the 6 strakes from obechie strip! Interesting how the grain changed direction along the strips. Had to be careful not to break any. All done without trouble.


I put them on hull to show but not going on anytime soon as I still have a lot of sanding to do to remove the old paint. I do have the KCR flexible CA ready in my store when the time comes to attempt attachment.


Have spent many hours recently trawling through all useful posts on painting to adhesives to the Swordsman build from 2007.

Fantastic whittling Stuw - very skilful  - you don't need a bandsaw to cut your wood !

The grain changing part way along the length of the obechie strip is something that I have noticed too - even when cutting my strakes on the bandsaw - and that is the time when the blade wants to pull itself out of the wood and spoil the strake.

Not having your skill, I made a jig to keep the wood in the right position against the blade, but I still need to use my fingers to "feel" the wood as it is being cut and react to any change of grain to stop the blade pulling out or digging-in by changing my finger pressure on the wood as it enters and leaves the jig.

It looks like your Javelin is going to be well "sorted" and changing your old strakes was a good idea!

Well done!

Bob.

[zooma]

I took a look at the modified Arrow model boat that Stuw mentioned on here earlier - the black and white one with the SunSeeker type reverse wing mounts (but with no actual wing fitted) and then I watched some of the "classic" off-shore powerboats on various uTube videos that Tony had directed me towards over the last few months.

Those with wings seem to have them mainly for mounting various antennas in a higher position for improved radio, TV, radar reception etc, but I doubt they were fitted for any aerodynamic reasons like they would be in a Formula 1 car.

There are a few (not many) classic off-shore powerboats that had a wing fitted so I thought that I would chop-out some shapes to see what one would look like if I fitted it to the Javelin.

The reverse type (forward facing) wing did not look as good on the Javelin as it does on the Arrow model, I think this is because the Javelin looks like a older (and chunkier) design of boat, so I gave up with that idea and made some more conventional (rearwards mounted) wings and mounts to see what may work.

In the end I thought that a "period" type of wing with "heavier" side frames would suite the design (and vintage) of the boat the best, but "wings on classic powerboats boats" can be a Marmite type of "love it or hate it" situation so I am sure that fitting one would not meet with too much general approval

SWMBO was (foolishly)  shown my ideas and she quite liked my final design idea (sort of) but then mentioned Buck Rogers and Dan Dare (well - I did ask) so that immediately put the idea into perspective but undaunted I made a mock-up and clipped it onto the hull to imagine what it may look like with the various bumps and aerials mounted on it.

Modern powerboats (especially Sun Seeker types) often have very stylish wings that are often not only used to mount various radar, antenna, and spotlights etc on them, and some are so big that they make use of the as an extra storey sun-deck!.

A lot of LesRo Javelins and Streakers were sold, so I would like to make my look a bit "different" so I think I will fit a wing but maybe I will make it detachable (or even fitted with break-off bolts) so that I can return it to its classic shape in the future.

[Stuw]

Here is a link to the modified Arrow:


https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=109238


I’m currently working on motor mount and braces. Coping saw and fret saw and lots of measuring things twice or more means it’s slow progress. I am also reverse engineering parts to fit my constructed hull. Bob has great experience of this. I do not! Thanks again for your ideas and photographs.


Alternating with sanding off the paint from the hull. Yes I still haven’t finished that. It’s stubborn and hard work eh Bob?

I have also acquired what appear to be good quality marine grade stainless steel nuts and bolts from here:


https://www.accu.co.uk/en/


They are well made. I don’t think they are too bad on price when compared to other sites? Other suppliers are available. They do all sorts of countersunk washers and... sorry I’m getting carried away ordering little bits of metal?!

I’m working on making the motor mount plate (9mm ply!) removable to start with in case of other structural issues. If it works I may leave it as removable. Should I change to an inrunner at some point then it would make swapping the motor mount much easier to do. I’m going to use threaded inserts instead of wood screws to allow removal without trashing the wood. Well that’s plan A!

[tonyH]

Javelin with wings.............Lesro Dart?

[Stuw]

Slow progress whilst I also do real world jobs (levelling an area for a greenhouse) but I’ve got my removable outdoor vice setup working to prevent filling the garage with fine sawdust!


Working on the motor mount braces to allow for the old slightly oily hull and the LIPO mounts with removable tray. I’m planning on using threaded inserts to allow me to remove tray. I’m going for meaty 12mm braces. These will help give my hull skin some more rigidity to perhaps reduce resonance.


The baseplate of the motor mount will also feature these to allow me to play with the setup and cope with a different motor if I switch to an out-runner in the future.


I’m cutting these by hand with fret and coping saws and keep stopping to check whilst sanding to fit the hull. Perma-Grit block and file are brilliant.


I could have used the 12mm ply more sparingly but didn’t want to try to cut two close together for my first effort. I plan to cut down to size once the bottom of the pieces fit the hull correctly!


Also still to remove the blue sticky glue from the old foil tape in the engine bay!

[zooma]

Thats good work Stuw - a nice fit and a good width of plywood for the braces - it should be "as solid as a rock" and have enough width to accept your threaded inserts too 

[canabus]

Hi Stuw


Add stringers each side of your engine mounts between the two frames.


I found the resonance was coming from the plywood skin.


We also had the same problem in the fibreglass hull of the Spearfish which we ran from stern to the motor mounts.


Harry

[Stuw]

Thats good work Stuw - a nice fit and a good width of plywood for the braces - it should be "as solid as a rock" and have enough width to accept your threaded inserts too 

Yep. As they are so wide that was my thought exactly!

[Stuw]

Hi Stuw


Add stringers each side of your engine mounts between the two frames.


I found the resonance was coming from the plywood skin.


We also had the same problem in the fibreglass hull of the Spearfish which we ran from stern to the motor mounts.


Harry

Hi Harry,


Thanks for that. I shall do as the skin is quite liable to resonate otherwise I reckon. I think I shall also add some in the mid section as it’s a large unsupported ply skin area. Apart from two meaty 12mm bases for my LIPO tray.


Will likely add some glassfibre and resin to the inside to help strengthen it as well.


I’m not bothered about weight on this model. I’d rather keep it all together as it’d quite old. I think with the motor it will be plenty fast enough for my needs!

[zooma]

My restored Rapier is not a lightweight boat Stuw, but it still goes very well with "similar" power to the in-runner you are going to fit.

The Javelin should be faster as it does not have the high (non-aerodynamic) wheelhouse to drag around and shares exactly the same hull.

Keeping these old boats in one lump when giving them good regular use does change the way of thinking somewhat, and building them strong is the way to go.

[Stuw]

Assuming it is ok to link to eBay, I reckon this is a Javelin based on shape but with a difference to power Plant!


Bit steep to get it across the pond though!?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-collectible-model-wood-Speed-Boat-Perfect-Circle-39-long-w-KB-75-engine/274743864195?hash=item3ff802ab83:g:9m4AAOSwZo5gZ1a2

[zooma]

Nice find Stuw,

A Javelin with an outboard motor on the back. A very interesting combination as a K&B 75 would have been able to kick-out quite a bit of power in its day, and it would have sounded good too!

The motor may not be "seized" as the advert says, but has probably "gummed-up", but if it has been run on high nitro (as the tin suggests) the engine may well be knackered as it has been laid on its back for a long time and the nitro will have corroded the lower side of the liner......and possibly the bearings too!

We used to have the same problem with nitro engines in r/c helicopters as the engine is also mounted in a similar laid-down orientation and so when the run has finished we would give it a squirt of lay-up oil and turn it over a few times to clean out the residue and to keep the motor lubricated.

As this motor is probably gummed-up (and later seized by corrosion?) it was also probably not given the "after-run" care that it needed, so a new piston and liner (and bearings?) would have to be factored into the cost, and with the postage costing almost as much as the boat(!)  this would make an expensive old Javelin........and like yours (and most others that were run with a nitro engine) it could well be fuel soaked in places too!

We can probably get more power out of our brushless motors these days, but that outboard powered Javelin would still be spectacular model to see running 

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.

[Stuw]

Ok well I’ve just opened my package that arrived today.    Or as my wife stated, “ another boat?!”


A little window on the past. Some hand written notes of imperial ply sizes. A small square of sandpaper. A brass rudder and tube. Engine mount ready. Throttle cable and exhaust tubes in. But propshaft bent, no servo mounts and no glowfuel contamination (good news!). Outside skins still old bare plywood and not watertight.


I was driven to purchase another Javelin. It needs some tlc. In some ways it’s in a better state than mine, but in most it is not! My rose-tinted buying specs made me imagine her somewhat more seaworthy but it’s also quite nice to find an unfinished Lesro Javelin and hopefully bring it to life or at least float.


Skins haven’t been treated at all on the outside.
Some delamination of bulkheads and chips of skin missing at corners
Hasn’t sailed as unfinished
Was being kitted out for glowfuel motor but exhaust unused and absolutely no fuel contamination inside (Yay!)
Has a brass rudder and brass tube (good news)
Varnished inside
No rubbing strips
No deck at the rear that joins transom? Missing bulkhead or two here?
Hatches don’t fit
One lonely, partial strake
Propshaft and tube bent badly.

Skins seem much more flexible than mine especially near the engine bay so either because:


1. Untreated,
2. delamination
3. Thinner ply? Or any other clues?


Lots of questions and I shall place Javelin 2 on the top shelf as I need to focus on the other one. Having said that life is getting in the way (could be worse) so not much progress on that front. May decide to reskin this one or even convert to Rapier? Who knows....


Must stop looking at eBay!    I nearly ended up with a Graupner Pegasus III but decided a 4 foot twin motor and rudder boat was not going to fit in at home really (a boat I dreamt of owning as a teen living in Germany but my dad could only afford the Carina (which was a great first boat and much easier to build from what I’ve read))

Anyway back to the simpler (in theory) Javelin - Not sure how far to take it apart before getting it finished as the original builder must have intended. She will be getting either new skins or some fine glass cloth over the top I imagine of both. Or lots of filler    . Of course not, ahem.


Bob I am trying to join you in your efforts but fear I may be biting off more than I can chew. Still I can but try. I can understand your feelings about your dodgy Rapier now.


Having recently managed to acquire a lovely Sea Hornet kit unbuilt in original box (that’s for the future but couldn’t resist saving it) my other half has decreed no more boats to pass the threshold! I have more than enough to keep me busy over the next few years I reckon! Unless I can sneak some into the dark recesses of the loft but that’s not the best place for them.

[zooma]

Nice one Stuw!

I did see that one on the bay and I am pleased that you have decided to rescue it.

Every restoration has its own challenges and every one needs a decision to be made at almost every stage about how far you want to go with it and how much of the kit you feel you would like to keep original.

Welcome to my world!

My decisions are often influenced by my age (currently 71) and my desire to get the boat back in action will sometimes be made with that in mind. Your younger age may well allow you to take a little longer to finish some sections or areas of the build as you can reckon on having longer to complete the work and enjoy running it.

I hope you enjoy your new project and I look forward to seeing your progress here on this Mayhem thread 

Stay safe - Bob.

[canabus]

HI Stuw


Looks like a good restorer, I would be happy for a boat like that as a starting point.


At a few stringers between the frames and with adding the spray rails on the outside will make it stronger.


Harry

[Stuw]

 Indeed. A good project and I’m a Javelin fan so that helps!


 Strakes and stringers will make a difference of course. It will be fun solving the problems!

[zooma]

Get your whittling knife out again Stuw - another 6 strakes are needed 

[Stuw]

For those wanting to see what the Javelin should look like I’ve found this clip of a couple of IC Javelins on a choppy pond.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI

[zooma]

For those wanting to see what the Javelin should look like I’ve found this clip of a couple of IC Javelins on a choppy pond.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI

Yours will be faster then either of these two boats with your brushless set-up..........but it won't sound as good 

[Stuw]

Attached pictures from when she was new in mid 1990s. Helps to show position in water. Don’t judge my coupling or dodgy exhaust - it worked! Home made water jacket with heat proof bonding agent and some metal cut to fit around the head. I repurposed my motor from my RC aircraft - didn’t fancy buying a marine water cooled head.


1. And 2. (Blurry) On the water at Bolder Mere.


1. You can see where I cut a hole forward of the “909” on port side for the exhaust to vent out. Decided against a straight through pipe.

2. Blurred (so fast, not really) but can see water cooling flow exhaust forward of “909” on starboard.

3. Internals - heat reflective tape applied - I’m now wishing I hadn’t done that as I remove all traces of it!
Hole cut in forward cabin front face to let air in for cooling and to assist with exhaust gases going out of the other hole

[zooma]

I like the LesRo "factory colour scheme" for the Javelin as it is very striking, but it looks much nicer in the yellow and green colours that you have used rather than the orange and yellow box colours.

Good job - well done - it looks good on the water too.

It will be nice to see some pictures of your re-fitted (restored?) Javelin on some smooth water when powered with your new brushless in-runner motor and LiPo combination as it will lighter and faster.

Your "ride angle" looks very similar to my Rapier1 (same hull). You have a little more hull in the water in these pictures than I had at the weekend - but this could change when the new power kicks-in and it will be good to see what it looks like then.

Thanks for sharing your action pictures with us  - we don't get to see many pictures of Javelins in action.

[Stuw]

I did start with orange and yellow and changed my mind, as I now find traces of orange whilst sanding the hull!


I had an old green Triumph Dolomite 1850 at the time and thought that might look better with yellow perhaps?!


Not sure why now, but I was running with 900g of ballast in the rear compartment! Maybe that’s why it’s down at the rear!


The lines of the Javelin look good to me and it will encourage me to pull my finger out when I can and get on with it (hopefully!)