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Author Topic: Cheddar Proteus  (Read 10240 times)

derekwarner

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2021, 03:55:40 am »

OK Jim.....I'll just find my role of string  {-)


1. How full should the boiler be for the initial part of the run?

The 3/4 full boiler [water volume], will take longer to reach boiling point than a 1/2 full boiler
The 1/2 full boiler [water volume] of boiling water will have a greater volume of steam available for use than the 3/4 full boiler water voulme]...this also answers question A

The usuable volume of steam could be considered an important point

The balance of your '4 legged' questions [2., & B] %% are near impossible to provide sound guidance other than your own trials to see if the results match your expectations

c. Steam Oil of most Grades is based on an ISO Mineral Oil with some additives to make it sticky @ temperature......if the oiler caps on the Proteus engine have a small open hole to the journal pins, you could trial a light lubricating oil, if it disappears quickly, trial a squirt of Steam oil.....it is comforting to see oil in the cups by the shore side, but what happens toward the end of your 40 to 60-minute runs? >>:-(

Light oils may appear fine, but at speed or high pulsations of the components may throw or fling the light oil off.......a heavier Steam oil with the sticky qualities will tend to stick where it's meant to be

Before my retirement, I posed the same questions to a Colleague BHP Steel Lubrication Engineer and so we also visited some of the exotic Steam Oils as marketed in the US of A, and naturally the final advice was that trials could only define the results, however the 10 x fold $ cost was questioned as Snake Oil <*<

Derek

[considering the initial cost of model steam equipment, I would always be happier using more oil than less]...... :P
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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Jerry C

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2021, 05:08:22 am »

For lubrication of the moving parts (Not piston or valve chests) I use a mix of 600 steam oil: 20/50 mineral oil and rape seed oil(Marzola) in a 2:1:1 ratio. I put neat steam oil in the lubricator.


Jerry C.

DBS88

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2021, 07:50:23 am »

Jim I will share my experiences of running two different models with the Cheddar ABC system. The first has the same boiler as yours that supplies steam to two Cheddar Puffins. It is from my steam tug that I have been learning from over the last 18 months. I set the boiler filling sensor to 2/3 full. On start up I top the boiler up to 3/4 full. This means everything gets warm and is running well before the water level drops and the system asks for water into the boiler, if not the system asks for water to the boiler very quickly, probably before you are ready to put the boat in the water and for the engines to be running and turning the pumps. Also the pumps need to be turning over at a reasonable speed to catch up with the water used.Once on the water and running the system keeps up with demand, maintaining the boiler at 2/3, for 40 minutes or more. The oilers have not run out of oil during this time, the oil seperator  does fill and is the limiting factor. I use straight steam oil in the oiler and have been using steam oil for lubricating the engine bearings, steam glands and moving faces.
The second is the same set up as you have, again I fill the boiler to 2/3 and the system has no problem keeping up with demand, the engine revs faster than the puffins and I need to work further on the settings for the boiler feedwater bypass settings since at higher revs the boiler level rises too far. I have been impressed at the revs of the Proteus engine and the ability of the set up to maintain the water level in the boiler at about half revs (2000rpm) while also maintaining 60 psi without noticeably dropping the pressure or revs when the pump is operating to fill the boiler. it just keeps going,
What I have learned is that the system can and does maintain the boilers water level at 2/3 and it does this better at higher rpm, I do still bring the model back in to check all is operating as it should. Whilst not directly answering your questions perhaps you can use these observations as a starting point for your own experiments since what I am finding is that each steam plant had its own character, so what works for one may not for another. hope this helps, Dave
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KNO3

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #103 on: July 04, 2021, 08:56:39 am »

Regarding oiling the engine: always use steam oil in the displacement lubricator. Not all steam oils are equal though. I use the thick ones for larger engines and thinner ones for very small engines.
As Derek has also said, the choice of oil for externally lubricating the engine (bearings, gears etc) is dictated by the rpm and size of oiling cups. Steam oil can also work well and will stick to the parts longer as a lighter oil. It can also add friction, compared to a light oil (depending on engine construction).
But a very thick oil might not flow through oil cups or pipes with very narrow holes, in which case you better use a light oil.
Nowadays I tend to use Regner steam oil for internally lubricating most of my engines, Hermann steam oil (which is considerably thinner) for my very small engines and Ballistol for general purpose external lubrication and when running the engines on air.
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jpdenver

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #104 on: July 04, 2021, 04:55:29 pm »

Thanks everyone -

I have been using Steam Oil (I have a large supply of original Cheddar) for all lubrication needs. 
I just wanted to make sure I thought it through. 

As to the boiler and feed system - 
I think the 2/3 to Start and 1/2 for feed sensor so far looks good.  My feed system holds about
375 - 400 ML.   The boiler is a 600 ML capacity (but that does not say if it is the "usable level" or
fill to the top.)  It is currently a pain in the butt to drain. The "re-fill from 1/2 to start-level" is about 150ML. 
For a total of 525 - 550 ML per run of 50 minutes (on the bench). 

Need more time on the water - hopefully next week.

-------
Dave, - I found that if I opened the by-pass master valve (the one on the pump) to 1/4 turn, I reached
some point of equilibrium where I did not over fill the boiler.  As I said in a previous post, and you have no doubt found out,
the setting of the servo valve is tricky.  I think that even the "off:closed" position is still letting a little bypass due to the fact
that it is real difficult to set the valve "live" and testing with air and bubbles is not the same as with water. 

Thanks again every one.Keep your keels down.
Jim



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jpdenver

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #105 on: July 10, 2021, 09:14:57 pm »

Finally the city opened my favorite park. 
By this time of the year the Canadian Geese are hanging around
and leaving plenty of poop behind.  (Typical of Canadians I hear)  {-)   


So here is a movie from this morning. 
I think my trim weights might have shifted as she is listing a little
to starboard. 

https://youtu.be/wscUBE8qax8   

Thanks for following this thread,  I think it is pretty much finished. 
I hope that you have enjoyed the topic as much as I have. 
Time to get back on the water and have some fun, 
I will be back here when I get my hands on the next project.

Regards to all,
Stay safe. 

Jim PopeJPDenver
Denver, CO USA







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KNO3

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2021, 06:59:15 pm »

Very nice,  congratulations! She seems quite fast for its rather wide hull. Looks like the Proteus has ample power.
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jpdenver

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2021, 03:20:12 am »

Thanks to all for the kind comments. 

I think that the Proteus and the Greyhounds Revenge will make a great team. 

This will be my last post on this thread, 
but keep an eye on my YouTube page:Hilltop Boatworks James Pope 

As more movies will be forthcoming. 

Regards to all,
onwards to the next project.

Jim Pope 
JPDenver   
Denver, CO USA 
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derekwarner

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2021, 04:17:23 am »

...."onwards to the next project"..............what a good idea Jim  O0


I found a WEB site that may interest, & I grew up with Imperial dimensions all those moons ago,  but it must be near 100 years ago since I have seen a measuring device with these funny designations.....


Question ....'what is the centre line dimension as shown{-) ....


I see 1+8/32" or 1+16/64" [if you are standing on your head].............what did the Drawing say Jim?...... :o

Derek
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Derek Warner

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www.ils.org.au

Jerry C

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2021, 06:42:55 am »

Inch and a quarter.
Jerry.

jpdenver

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2021, 05:15:54 pm »

Derek,
 8)    Are you stalking me on another forum, my friend? 

Yes, this is from my compound twin build on the Home Model Engine Machinist Forum. 
It got paused a year ago.  Now time to finish it up.
I think it will drive the big boat nicely.  (other thread)

Regards,
Jim
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derekwarner

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #111 on: July 15, 2021, 12:10:39 am »

......"Are you stalking me on another forum, my friend?" no, no, no...... {-)

I was on the other new THread here, copied & pasted the words Stuart Compound....and bingo...your build thread was on the top of the list O0

Also saw your new Junior Ms Shop Superintendent  :kiss: ....I have 9 of those <*< in varying ages & stages [the ratio is 5 Ms, & 4 Mr]

Derek
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Derek Warner

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jpdenver

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #112 on: July 15, 2021, 09:20:58 pm »

"...I have 9 of those   in varying ages & stages [the ratio is 5 Ms, & 4 Mr]" 
   I take it you mean the two legged variety, and not the 4 legged!   :-))
You have me beat by 1. 

Looks like Martin killed my link to the HMEM forum.   >>:-(
Oh well, Jerry's is a much better example. 

I have some new toys arriving soon. 
Will start a new thread for them.

Regards,Jim
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Dainesh

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Re: Cheddar Proteus
« Reply #113 on: November 23, 2021, 12:38:30 pm »

Dear Gents,


Please read the Electronic controllers in Steam, there are some interesting thing there :)
Which may help you.
Plus Dave put a video there about his old ABC which is running with my side glass sensor.


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