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Author Topic: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman  (Read 9745 times)

zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2020, 02:50:37 pm »

I think my recycled templates are very ethical- and they give me something to read too, but the story is a bit disjointed and they donít have much of a plot!


When we get back to ďnormal ď again and we can go shopping I may invest in some posh card, especially if they have any printed like cereal boxes  :-))


I am using 1.5mm skins (if I remember correctly), but I will check when we get home.


Enjoy your weekend.


Bob.
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2020, 06:49:52 pm »

Sorry I meant the templates provided by that "gifted" draughtsman  on EBay! Nothing wrong with cereal boxes etc. though I've been spoilt by my posh card now.

I used 1.5mm ply as well, the hull is incredibly strong. Started cutting out and fitting the mahogany bow detail in readiness for planking. Well one half's fitted, the other broke when cutting out on the scroll saw due to a weakness in the timber and am now having to make another one - really fiddly job and I've got the edgings to do yet.

Chris
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2020, 09:51:33 am »

I knew your reference was to the expertly drawn templates  that came with the plans I bought from eBay.


To be honest, I am surprised that the seller could make such a hash of drawing around the original wooden kit parts - so maybe they were drawn free-hand?


Itís good to see your Swordsman is on the go again.


What thickness of mahogany are you cutting to make the bow detailing from - and the planking?


I donít have any wood for detailing the deck with yet, but I guess I should get something on order as I am at the skinning stage now and once that is completed I could think about adding some planking.


Bob.


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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2020, 10:31:05 am »

Free-hand, from memory and wearing a blindfold!

I'm following Joe's method in his Hunters Moon build, so 1.5mm mahogany with 0.5 x5mm Tanganyka planks fitted to a 0.8mm ply base. I've left the coamings off the inside of the deck for now to make fitting easier and allow me to sand the edge of the plank/base sandwich. Must admit I'm nervous of the planks being as they are so thin, which of course makes them easier to bend sideways.

Good thing about this method is that it's done off the model so if I cock it up I can do it again!

Chris
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2020, 10:08:31 pm »

Oh - I have never seen the sub-deck idea before  - I was just going to plank directly onto the deck.


Presumably you need to lower the deck line to allow for the extra thickness - or maybe it doesn't matter too much as few would notice the closer window to deck margin?


I have not fitted my deck skins yet, so I will have a think......



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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2020, 06:05:51 pm »

Before fitting the lower skins I thought I would make a final check on my choice of an 11" 5mm Maxidrive prop shaft while I can clearly see through the skeleton of the Swordsman frame - and check the prop clearance under the hull.


The shaft angle used is as drawn on the original Aerokits plan and when fitting an X50 prop (the biggest size that I would want to fit for any brushless motor that I have in mind) and there is plenty of clearance and enough shaft protruding through the engine bay bulkhead to connect to my Powerflex coupling and the 5mm shaft of the brushless motors.


I think the 11" shaft length will be a good choice for the 1/12 scale Swordsman as it is long enough to fit the biggest size prop that I would ever want to fit, and is also short enough to mount the motor as far back in the hull as possible to help prevent the nose-down attitude that the Fairey hulled models are prone to.


Brushless motors are not heavy, but everything helps and there is enough spacing between the engine bay "firewall" bulkhead and the next bulkhead to fit a pair of hard cased 5600mah LiPo's "side by side" so I am hoping that this will balance the hull well - but realise that "the proof is always in the pudding" and until I run the boat for the first time I will not know.........
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #106 on: October 13, 2020, 12:08:20 am »

Oh - I have never seen the sub-deck idea before  - I was just going to plank directly onto the deck.


Presumably you need to lower the deck line to allow for the extra thickness - or maybe it doesn't matter too much as few would notice the closer window to deck margin?


I have not fitted my deck skins yet, so I will have a think......


Hi Bob


Neither had I.


My original plan was to plank the deck but was then considered getting it laser etched, even went as far as getting TurboCad to produce the cutting file. This method brings it's own problems though, easy enough fitting to a flat deck but not so easy to a cambered one particularly if there's a curved shear as well - I straightened the shear on my Huntsman 31 build to simplify things - going to plank that as well now.


Seeing Joe's method and the result he had achieved swung me back to planking though. Despite what Joe says it isn't easy though (he is modest and very skilful) but I like being able to plank and clamp off the boat.


Part of getting a good finish is getting a good fit of the 0.8mm ply base and planks within the bow detail and deck edgings. I will finish those tomorrow ready for starting the templates - posh card!


Yes you're right, in theory the extra depth of the planking should be allowed for but at 1.5mm in my case I'm not worried about it and it's too late anyway! A thinner or lower breast hook would have been required and dropping the deck stringers accordingly. The usual planking on deck method could be slightly thinner if using e.g. 1mm thick planks. With my lift off superstructure the deck to window dimension isn't affected as the superstructure sits on the deck.


One little problem I have at the bow area is that the vertical bit where the rubbing strips fit will be deeper than the 5mm deep strips I intend to fit. It's too late to reduce those by sanding as the hull has had cloth and resin applied now. Maybe not, I can always patch the cloth, will see what it looks like.


Chris
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #107 on: October 13, 2020, 10:48:09 am »

Thanks for your thoughts regarding your planking options Chris - it has certainly helped as I consider the options - including just painting the deck!


One of the lower hull skins was fitted last night and I want to fit the other side today so I can get the drive train aligned and fitted before cutting the side skins.


I tend to take a lot of time aligning the shaft, rigid alignment coupling and motor mount, but once it is all sorted I can make some side skin templates (I am already looking for suitable thin card boxes!) before making the deck templates, and these will need some more thin cardboard boxes  %) .


Part of me just wants to get this boat built and in the water as I have not run a Swordsman for well over 50 years (!) ........and a painted deck would certainly help speed things up !


However,  the opportunity to learn a new skill and plank the deck certainly appeals to me, but I may make another Swordsman to make good use of all those nice individually decorated templates that I have made as they will remind me of all the cereals, teas, biscuits etc that have been eaten - and I could plank that one..............


Lots to think about (as always) including where to buy suitable thin woods for the deck planking.  I even considered making the planking out of thin plywood that I could strip on the bandsaw and colour it with the stains I have just acquired, but I think thin strip wood would bend easier and would certainly save a lot of time!


Bob.







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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2020, 11:58:00 am »

Hi Bob


I'm careful with prop shaft alignment as well and use a solid coupling for setting up.


Another option for the deck that some do is drawing lines on with a pencil before staining etc. which can look effective. With my Huntsman 28 I fancied a high gloss finish (totally unscalelike!) and so put a birch ply deck on and then used International Yacht Paints Schooner tung oil varnish. Looks great but definitely not a Fairey look! Race boats often had painted decks so no problem there.


Cornwall Model Boats have a good selection of strip wood.


Chris 
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2020, 06:02:44 pm »

I fitted the second bottom skin this morning, but I have not done as good a job with it as I would have liked!


The skin looked like it was a good fit when I check it with a dry fit, but once all the glue was on and the brass tacks went in to secure it a slight gap has crept in between the keel and the edge of the skin as it wrapped around the bows.


I am rather disappointed and would prefer not to use any filler - especially in the bows area, but I have no option so it looks like a little  P38 will have to get mixed-up to fill the small gap - and I after I have fixed on all of the spray rails and chine rails I may even think about covering the entire hull with some sort of thin woven cloth bonded on with glass fibre resin to ensure this small filled area is totally secured.


Maybe this would be "over-kill" so I will see how I feel come nearer the time when I have to decide as I know a lot of people have successfully used P38 or Plastic Padding over the years to plug small gaps with complete success.
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #110 on: October 14, 2020, 10:02:06 pm »

Fitting the small square rails to the underside of the Swordsman hull would probably be easier if using super-glue.


I have noticed that modern woods tend to split more easily than the old stuff, so nailing into position when waiting for PVA to dry is not too appealing and taping down may not give the precision needed when running parallel rails alongside each other.
 
Anyone had success fixing these rails accurately?

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Colin Bishop

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2020, 10:14:05 pm »

Drilling holes with a pin vice before inserting the pins prevents splitting so shouldn't be a problem. The pins serve to locate the rails accurately then you can use tape to hold them down while the glue sets. You have the option of leaving the pins in place and cutting then off flush within the hull to maintain strength or withdrawing them and filling in the holes.

Colin
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2020, 12:46:57 am »

Hi Bob

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about a small gap in skins near the bow, usually have to use some P38 anyway if balsa blocks are used. Cloth and resin covers the ply, balsa and P38 a treat.

Do the cloth and resin before fitting the chine and spray rails as very difficult to do neatly over them and then glue them using a slow cure CA e.g. Slo Zap which gives you time to accurately position them - I start from the front and work back having drawn pencil lines on the hull and glue a few inches at a time. After gluing you can run fillets of resin and micro-balloons down each side to fill in any gaps and fair them in. After which I gave them a couple of coats of resin, Eze-Kote in my case.

Photo attached of those on my Huntsman 28. Ideally they should be triangular in section but square was easier to do. They can be planed etc. to make triangular before fitting but tricky to do. Might have a go on other builds.

Chris

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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #113 on: October 20, 2020, 05:20:14 pm »

I returned last night and sanded the bottom skins back to the stringers and the P38 that I used to fill the small gaps between where the skin edge meets the keel (or should have done better than it did!).


Looking along the up-turned hull, everything looks good and square so I have ordered some Eze-Kote and some 1oz glass fibre cloth to have my first go at applying a finishing resin.


If it all goes well and I don't end up with pockets of trapped air etc, I will order some 2 pack finishing resin (such as Z-Poxy) to cover my Corvette hull as this hull is a real mixture of planked balsa wood, hard wood repair strips, paints, all sorts of aged filler and carved balsa wood bows. 


Even after a good sanding back I think there will be patches of all these different materials exposed , and I don't think any water based resin would stand much chance of getting a good grip over this motley collection of mixed surfaces!


While I am waiting for the Eze-Kote and glass cloth to be delivered for the Swordsman I will start to add some 1/8" x 1/4" doublers to the edges of the bulkheads to give a bigger bonding area for the side skins to fix onto.  This worked well on the bottom edges of the bulkheads and has given the bottom skins a nice solid bonding area.


The original Aerokits building instructions suggest cutting the top of the lower skins along the centre line of the chine stringers at the bows to give a butt joint with the side skins when they are butt fitted to them - but the rest of the side skins (once away from this area)  just overlap the bottom skins in the usual way.


I have cut the bottom skins over the chine former in this way to give a square butt joint edge (using my Tamiya razor saw) but I sanded the rest of the bottom skins to the edge of the bulkheads and stringers in the more usual way, so the side skins will overlap along the sides of the hull.


My last Aerokits Swordsman  was built in the 1960's - and I honestly cannot remember having a butt joint and cutting the bottom skins in this way - but I am up for it,  and have cut the skins accordingly, but if things "don't go to plan" I can easily sand this small area of the bottom skin back at the bow and overlap the side skins all the way "as per normal".
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #114 on: October 21, 2020, 09:44:08 pm »

I know that many model boat makers really enjoy crafting beautifully proportioned stands to display their model on, but in all honesty I hate making boat stands, but with the bottom skins fitted I now need a stand to hold the model upright as I work out the motor mount shapes prior to fitting the side skins.


My boat stands are box-like, as small and low as possible, and  with a little space underneath the hull to carry any small oddments that I may like to have with me such as a spanner, Allen key or alternative prop - but the main function is just to hold the boat safely upright in the workshop and when being transported.


I started by making the stand ends, spaced to fit under bulkheads B2 and B4 ( about 12" apart) and managed to get the width down to 10" so that is the size of the box stand(s) that are made as low as possible without the prop scraping the along the ground. They will gain a little height as I fit a rubber cushion mount on each corner to protect any surface (and keep myself out of trouble with my long suffering and very understanding wife - who may possibly read this one day!).


I keep the same stand that I use to build the boat on, and only paint it and add some foam cushions to protect the paint after the building is completed.  The stand stays with the boat for life - basic but it does the job!


Today I picked-up an original Aerokits Swordsman kit that had been started by a deceased father-in-law but never completed.  The box reminded me of the day I parted with my hard earned cash and proudly carried my first new kit home sometime in the late 60's.


With encouragement (and pictures and drawings) from ChrisF, I will get both models to the same stage and then decide which two different 33ft Swordsman variants to model.  One will have the low rear cabin (as per Aerokits) but the other will either have the raised rear cabin or possibly become an open cockpit variant ....whilst still working on restoring the Chris Craft Corvette - just to keep me occupied!



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tonyH

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2020, 01:32:18 pm »

More piccys!
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mbm999

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2020, 04:18:46 pm »

Hi,
On pics S2 and S3, i'm assuming those are nails holding the skins? If so, do you plan on removing them (quite hard to do i would think)?

Thanks,
Mark
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #117 on: October 22, 2020, 04:44:06 pm »

Hi Mark,


Yes the skins are held in position with brass nails while the PVA glue sets.


Over the years I have removed these nails  (it is not too hard to dig under the head with a 1/2" chisel to lift them up enough to get a hold with some pincers) and also left them in (usually the head disappears during the finish sanding process so only the brass shaft remains as a pin).


When I have left the nails in, they have never protruded out in use (as long as I sanded them down properly in the first place), but I agree that it is a possibility.


If the nails were not brass then I wouldn't hesitate to remove them.


Hooking the nails out leaves holes and sometimes a little surface damage too that will need filling, so neither method is without its consequences.


Currently I prefer to leave the brass nails in place and sand them down as this method retains the brass shaft as a pin to reinforce the joint, needs no filler to cover the holes,  and being brass it cannot rust or cause any problems that I have seen since I started doing this in the 1960's.


I have to say that this is a subject that has caused a lot of debate over the years (sometimes heated debate !) so there will always be some that will disagree with my findings, so you have raised an interesting subject and I can only comment on my current thoughts and findings to date.


Hope this helps - Bob.



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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2020, 07:15:08 pm »

TRIANGULAR SECTION HARDWOOD STRIP.


I have been trying to find a source of small triangular section hardwood to use for making strakes on my Swordsman, but I do not know anywhere that sells it.


The part-built Aerokits Swordsman kit that I have recently picked-up has some small triangular section hardwood in the box (!) - so it does exist - I just need to find out where I can buy some more and to find out if there is any choice of sizes.


Can anyone help please?
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2020, 11:30:49 am »

The super set of drawings that came with my eBay purchased Swordsman plans did not include T6 - or if it did - I never saw it!


This part sits on top of the false transom assembly to support the afterdeck so I just copied the curve from the top of the rear bulkhead and cut some 6mm ply to sit at the same height and glued it on top, but this leaves a gap that needs to be bridged between where it ends and the top of the rear transom skin.


Although the transom skin is 1.5mm (and being curved it will have some strength), the bonding area between it and the after-deck would only be where it and the same thickness of 1.5mm rear deck join onto each other.  The plan nor the kit show any reinforcement in this area and my memory for the 1960's does not recall how I resolved this, so I cut two small 6mm bracing pieces to fit between my version of T6 and the transom skin joint.


I filled the spaces between these 6mm braces with some scrap 1/2" balsa wood and sanded them to shape to give a good bonding area and to support the rear deck and the transom skin.


Once this was done I cut the small aft decking and held it down with some gaffer tape to keep it in place whilst the PVA dried.


Before "turning it in" for the night I joined a couple of thin cardboard tea boxes together with masking tape and made a template for a side skin, so if the rear assembly has worked out and looks OK when I peel the gaffer tape off the next job will be to get a pair of side skins cut.


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tonyH

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2020, 06:33:48 pm »

Sort of explains last post!
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #121 on: October 26, 2020, 09:03:20 pm »

Thanks for posting the progress pictures for my Tony - my old Mac and my lack of any computer knowledge prevent me from posting them myself. Even my wife is getting fed-up with my ancient and slow MAC - if we actually need to do anything in a reasonable time we find our olde iPhones are at least 20 times faster ...even though my arthritic hands struggled with the small keys - it is still much faster !


Anyway, I used quite a lot of gaffa tape to hold the rear deck down onto the top of the false transom as I could not use enough brass nails to hold it down to shape as some would be driven into balsa wood and others into the edge of the 1.5mm transom skin - neither of which would be very practical or likely to succeed.


As I peeled away the gaffa tape there were no gaps, so it had done its job and I was able to dress the edges back to make a neat joint.


The side skin templates needed to have an accurate "step" in them where they change from being a butt joint at the bows to the regular overlap so I took my time getting this bit right!  As previously mentioned, I recycle any useful card packaging to use as templates for my bulkheads/keel and side skin templates etc.


Nice new clean card would be preferable and would probably save me having to make so many joins using wide masking tape, but I have failed to plan a suitable shopping trip - so I use whatever I can find to hand when I need to make anther shape.


My search for triangular section obechie (or similar) to make the strakes from continues as I emailed SLEC today in the hope that I could persuade them to stock some - and even include some in their kits  perhaps?


The reply suggested that I could sand some to shape, so I guess the person who wrote this has never attempted to sand x10 36" lengths of 1/8" x 1/8" obechie to an accurate triangular shape!


Lets hope SLEC has some other enquires as I am sure triangular obechie would be a helpful addition to their wood stock that would sell quite well.













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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #122 on: October 27, 2020, 12:10:08 am »

Could you use angle upside down? These guys do timber strips 24" long.




https://www.northeasternscalelumber.com/
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #123 on: October 27, 2020, 10:02:47 am »

That is a good bit of lateral thinking there Mudway!


Fixing the angle strips upside-down onto the bottom skins of the hull would give a good choice of size's for making strakes from, and being hollow they would save some weight too (!).


It would be a lot easer if we could buy triangular section obechie strips, but as nobody can find a source of these any more we have to look at alternatives and using inverted angle strips is certainly worth a look.


Sanding 36" lengths of square obechie down to an accurate triangular section is not for the feint hearted - especially as the Aerokits Swordsman uses 5 strips per side so 10 strips would be needed (more if any are split as they are bent to shape or nailed to the hull!).


When hardwood suppliers can cut accurate square section obechei down to very small sizes, it must be possible to make triangular strip just as easily.  If the strip wood makers could do it in the 1960's (and earlier), then modern technology must make it at least as easy to make them now - but if there is not enough demand to make it financially viable it is unlikely that we will be seeing any on sale anytime soon.





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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #124 on: October 27, 2020, 10:42:36 am »

See your e-mails Bob,
This may be useful if you can deal with 12" lengths. See 332/333 etc.
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