Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[Colin Bishop]

Quite agree too that planking is the way to go. Ply sheet just doesn't like compound curves and tends to bulge in unwanted places. Best to work with your material than against it.

Colin

[zooma]

Thanks for the advice - I did fancy planking it right from the start as it would probably make it easier to cover the double curvatures, but I have made the framework to take 1.5mm ply skins and any thicker wood will take the roof too high - perhaps higher than the cab sides as they do run very close.

A few weeks back I bought some thin obechie strip to experiment with some deck planking ideas.  I will take a look and see just how thin it is as it may be close enough to use instead of the 1.5mm plywood skins.

I realise that I can use thicker wood for planking the roof with and sand it back, but that would need some precision sanding to get it back to 1.5mm to "hit the marks" and I am not sure if my double curvature sanding technique is good enough to win that one!

Earlier this evening I added my final cross formers and when the adhesive has fully dried I can sand everything into its final shape before covering it - with ply skin or planking.

Another option that I thought about was filling the voids in-between the various roof frame formers with block balsa wood and sanding the whole thing to shape using the formers as natural sanding guides.

This would be a bit like shaping the roof on the Vic Smeed Remora that I have almost completed (just waiting for painting) but it should be a lot easier (in some ways) as the ply formers would make really good sanding references  to work to - another idea to consider !

If it wasn't a lift-off roof I would definitely plank it as it would be much easier.

[zooma]

Have to agree with DaveM that planking will create a great compound curve, this is limewood planking on the deck of my Aquarama after sanding:





Hope that helps.
David.

Planking does look nice Dave & Dave - and the lime wood looks really nice too (where did you get it?).


When I sand the frame formers back tomorrow I will see if I can make enough space to plank with 3mm (or similar).

Thanks for your advice,

Bob.

[DaveM]

SLEC sell bass strip and sheet - it's another name for lime.
DM

[zooma]

SLEC sell bass strip and sheet - it's another name for lime.
DM

..........."not a lot of people know that"..................


Thank you Dave,

I did not know that Bass was another name for Lime - but thanks to you - I do now!

My next SLEC order will include some 5mm wide thin Bass strip as it looks like a nice wood.  I don't know what its qualities are, but I will give some a try as it looks like the grain is a lot closer than the Obechie strip that I bought and it should stain nicely too.

Stay safe!

Bob.

[Colin Bishop]

Another option that I thought about was filling the voids in-between the various roof frame formers with block balsa wood and sanding the whole thing to shape using the formers as natural sanding guides.

The Bass sheet comes in thicknesses down to 0.8mm. Obviously you can easily cut it to any width of planking you like with a craft knife.

https://www.slecuk.com/bass/bass-sheet/bass-sheet-100mm-x-915mm-4-x-36quot

You could use the 1.5mm or 2.4mm to plank over the roof frame formers, then, before sanding, glue some thicker sheet in underneath between the formers. Then you can safely sand the top down smooth without worrying about it getting too thin.  You won't need to take much off anyway. The extra thickness undermeath will also beef up the structure so you don't risk putting your thumb through it when taking the top off!

Colin

[zooma]

The Bass sheet comes in thicknesses down to 0.8mm. Obviously you can easily cut it to any width of planking you like with a craft knife.

https://www.slecuk.com/bass/bass-sheet/bass-sheet-100mm-x-915mm-4-x-36quot

You could use the 1.5mm or 2.4mm to plank over the roof frame formers, then, before sanding, glue some thicker sheet in underneath between the formers. Then you can safely sand the top down smooth without worrying about it getting too thin.  You won't need to take much off anyway. The extra thickness undermeath will also beef up the structure so you don't risk putting your thumb through it when taking the top off!

Colin

Good idea


Thanks Colin.

[DJW]

Morning Bob


I've used SLEC too, very happy with their wood.  They can supply the Bass wood in planking strips of 1.5mm and various widths.


I've also used CMB as I need to match the Amati planks, their planks are here:


https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/lime_strip-p1.html


Colins approach sounds good to avoid sanding through.  This Aquarama is my first attempt at planking, the Lime / Bass is a pleasure to work with. I did find it needed a bit of an under cut to avoid surface gaps when on a curve, I used a mini plane.  Can't comment on how it takes stain, on the aquarama its used as a first planking layer before the mahogany.


As per other builders I started at the centre and worked outward, some of the planks may need tapering, in this case I'd recommend doing the tapering in pairs so as to maintain symmetry.


Best regards
David.

[zooma]

I was about to make a new rear cabin roof and take the advice given here by starting again with a new base plate and making another set of ribs to run across from left to right to better suite covering it with planking.

My current baseplate has rib formers that run from front to back and so would not be the best framework to plank onto if running the planks from front to back to make the best use of the planking's ability to conform to the double curvatures.

Whilst looking for some suitable wood, I picked-up a 1.5mm off-cut of ply and tried to bend it across the existing framework and thought that maybe with a little "persuasion" it may just cover the frames and possibly conform to the double curvature shapes too - if applied in two halves that met along the middle of the wide central spar/former.

I cut one skin to cover half of the roof and glued it down.  A lot of brass nails were needed to hold the roof skin against the rib formers  - and some clamps to keep it in position until the glue had set.

Last night I removed all of the nails and clamps and cut a "mirror image" skin to cover the other side of the rear cabin roof and repeated the process.

This morning I remove the remaining nails and clamps and was pleased to see that the roof shape had conformed to the double curvature shape that I was hoping to achieve.

Where the two skins joined along the central spar I gained a slightly elliptical gap as the skins stretched into position, but this gap was well covered by the wide central spar and so a little P38 took care of this easily enough.

What I did not expect was for the roof to gain a little "bulk" and I don't know if I can cope with this or not so I will give it a "good coat of looking at" to decide whether I should just dump it and start again - but I do like the way that the ply skins have "wrapped" and conformed to the double curvature shapes so nice and smoothly.

Life would have been so much easier if I had planned to plank this rear cabin roof right from the start - and I may end-up having to make another one in any case!

Merry (small) Christmas everyone!   

Bob.

[madwelshman]

Keep at it Bob, you'll get the look you want, even if it's not 1st time in some cases.


Looking forward to seeing your next photo uploads to see how you're progressing with the cabin roof.


Merry Christmas and enjoy the season as best you can.


Will

[tonyH]

Roofy Pics......

[madwelshman]

Nice one Bob, making good progress there and it looks good too.
Keep up the good work.


Will

[zooma]

The pictures show how far I got with the rear cab roof the last time I did any work on the boat just before Christmas.

When I "brave the cold" and get back out in my unheated workshop (shed) I will take another look at it.

The 1.5mm ply skin has taken the shape of the double curvature roof top much better than I feared it would, and I had already made plans to make it again with a planked top - so this is still an option.

The roof follows the shape of the cab sides quite well and when the mahogany "caps" are fitted to them it should sit slightly lower and look OK, but I have to admit that I am not too worried about trying to make a rivet counting replica of the original - I only want to make a model that looks "right" to me and one that I will enjoy running week after week for the foreseeable future.

I also have the scale "safety net" of knowing that some owners "customised" or "styled" their craft to meet their own requirements, and this owner has every intention of doing exactly that with these two versions of the Swordsman - one of them may even have a framed windscreen (not unlike the Corvette).  Sacrilege to the purist maybe - but if it looks good....................

[madwelshman]

The aft cabin roof has come out well Bob, despite any reservations that you may have had.


As for being 100% scale accurate or not, who cares!
You have to build it how you are happy with it and that's what matters at the end of the day.


I know that my boats won't be totally correct, but I will do what I can and as long as I'm happy with them, then I won't be worried about what anyone else says about them.


Will

[zooma]

Does anyone happen to know the length and width off the sliding hatch cover on the rear cab Swordsman roof by any chance?


Once I can get this dimension it will also control the width of the double doors that provide the access to the rear cabin from the cockpit.


Presumably, the width of the similar pair of doors that lead into the front cabin from the cockpit will also be the same size too (?) so these rear hatch cover measurements will help to size both pairs of double doors that give access from the cockpit to the front and the rear cabins.


I can guess at it and probably make it look OK, but the advantage of working at 1/12 scale is that every foot becomes an inch on the model so when the actual measurements are known, it is easy to get things right without any advanced mathematics 

[DaveM]

My 1/16 Swordsman has the overall size of the sliding hatch as 44 x 44, which wil need to be scaled up to suit your model (approx 59 x 59).
Dave M

[zooma]

Thanks Dave - that is very helpful. 

[zooma]

I have just bought a copy of the Swordsman plans by P.Connolly as they were on offer at Nexus and I fancied having a copy to compare with the Aerokits plans that I am using to make my Swordsman from.

These plans are "printed to order" but I have to say that the ones that I have just received are not that impressive as some of the lines are either faded or missing in places - there is enough information left to work with, so not all is not lost....but I am surprised that this "newly printed" set of plans is such a poor copy.

Does anyone know what magazine would have had a "build review" for this plan by any chance?

My friend built his Swordsman from these plans and we were running our boats together in the late 60's/early 70's so the I am guessing that these plans could have been featured in a Model Maker magazine?

There is no date on this plan, but I think it would have been made sometime in the 1960's?

[DaveM]

Bob
I have the Phil Connolly article and original MM plans in .pdf format. Remind me of your E-Mail address and they're yours.
Dave M

[zooma]

Thanks Dave - you are a mine of helpful information!

I have just sent you my email address by PM.

Stay safe,

Bob.


BTW - I looked at planking the deck but the Aerokits plans have the side windows drawn at the right sort of height to the deck, and when I placed the 1/16" planking alongside them it almost came up to the bottom of the window cut-out, so I will be painting these decks but saving my first foray into planking for another model!

[ChrisF]

That's another advantage of having a removeable superstructure Bob!


To be honest, not that it's impossible, the decision to plank the deck really needs to be taken before building begins for the Aerokits method of construction. Not only does the height of the windows need to be adjusted, but its difficult to plank up against and along the side pieces once they're in place. Much easier to do beforehand and sand to line and then fix the side pieces. As said not impossible, but makes a fiddly job even more fiddly!

Chris

[madwelshman]

The February 1965 edition of Model Maker and Model Boats magazine has a 1/2" scale Phil Connolly Swordsman plan in.
My copy arrived this morning.


Will

[zooma]

That's another advantage of having a removeable superstructure Bob!

Chris

I much prefer the integrated construction Chris - no joints or gaps to worry about between the deck and the underside of the "lid" and definitely a lot more sea-worthy too!

My friend had a beautifully built Swordsman with lovely deck planking that he built from the P.Connolly plans, but when we went to race in the British off-shore championship race in the sea at Torquay - he had to "sit that one out" as any heavy "deck-wash" would have gone down into the hull - and thats assuming that his "lid" did not get blown-off in the waves first!

I have no plans to race off-shore or to run my Swordsman in the sea, but I do remember the difference that the construction made when the water got a bit choppy.  The Aerokits integrated construction was strong and solid and together with the superb deep V hull design I never had any fears about running that boat in any weather conditions.  I also found more than enough access via the removable cabin top - even when starting a Merco 61 twin-plug with a leather boot lace!

When I made my first Swordsman from the Aerokits kit, it was back in the 1960's and I painted the deck, now, (only 55 or so years later) - I had forgotten about that - but if I had remembered, I may well have raised the underside of the cab windows by 1/16 when I cut them out to allow for the thickness of the planking.

Planking the deck would not reach the underside of the cab windows, but they would look a little low, so at this moment I am thinking that I will paint the decks..............but you never know..............

[zooma]

The February 1965 edition of Model Maker and Model Boats magazine has a 1/2" scale Phil Connolly Swordsman plan in.
My copy arrived this morning.


Will

Lucky sod    ......but I did have an online copy of the Swordsman article and plan sent to me by DaveM this afternoon.

I remember my original copy of that magazine being delivered to my parents house, but over the years I have either lost it or (more likely) given it away.

Strangely, I still have the earlier 1964 Model Maker magazine complete with the free Christmas plan that I had delivered to my parents house - and all these years later, I am building another Remora from them at the moment.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob.

[madwelshman]

I have part 2 of the 1964 Swordsman article, but am waiting on delivery of part 1 still. Beginning of next week should see it arrive, hopefully.


Will