Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[zooma]

Those brass pick-ups look very good Mark - thanks for the link.


Unfortunately they don't give any dimensions, but I am guessing that they will be well worth a try and have just ordered one this evening.


Bob.

[zooma]

My 1/16 Swordsman has the overall size of the sliding hatch as 44 x 44, which wil need to be scaled up to suit your model (approx 59 x 59).
Dave M

Hi Dave,

I am just returning to working on the Swordsman superstructure after "finishing" my work on the hull underside.

59 x 59 for the sliding hatch looks "right" on my rear cabin top (I have just drawn it on) - can you let me know what the overall diameter of the circular escape hatch is please?

Judging by the photograph of your Swordsman, it looks like the diameter at the base of the escape hatch is not much smaller than the width of the hatch?......but I know that the angle of the camera may make the closer escape hatch look a littler bigger than it is.

Thanks for your help,

Bob.

[DaveM]

Bob
The 'donut' base is 36mm OA on my 1/16 scale model and made of 1/8" thick bass, so yours will need to be approx 48mm diameter. You could use the spacing between the planks as an "eyeball" guide.

Dave M

[zooma]

Bob
The 'donut' base is 36mm OA on my 1/16 scale model and made of 1/8" thick bass, so yours will need to be approx 48mm diameter. You could use the spacing between the planks as an "eyeball" guide.

Dave M

 


Thanks Dave,

That looks about "right" too.

Stay safe!

Bob.

[zooma]

It's been a bit cold in the workshop (shed) this week, but I popped out there this afternoon and cut a couple of round shapes to form the base and the top cap of the circular round window/escape hatch.

When I had cut the two disks and tidied them up a little I bored a 5mm hole into the middle to each of them and put a long 5mm bolt with a large washer on the top and under face and clamped one of the disks between them.  Using this M5 bolt as a mandril I could then use it to hold the plywood disks while I trued them up.

I have a couple of the tiny little Sieg X0 Micro Mills that I use whenever I can, they are very small and can be lifted on and off of the bench whenever I can find a use for one of them.  One has a drill chuck fitted so I used this to bore the holes and then put the first disk assembly into the drill chuck and sanded it until it was perfectly circular and then rounded the top edge off slightly.

After repeating this process with the second slightly smaller top disk I had a pair of nice round shapes to work with.

The larger of the two disks was positioned on the rear cabin top, glued, and then screwed down through the M5 hole, taking advantage of the thick central ply rib that I had fitted to give the roof skins a wide bonding surface.

When the PVA has dried I will remove the screw and laminate the top cap centrally onto it after I have decided how I am going to replicate the shape and fitted the brass cover rails.

[tonyH]

Pics

[zooma]

Are these brass water scoops any good?
They were out of stock for quite a while but seem to be back in now (though i haven't actually checked they really have them - maybe worth a phone call first).
They seem to have gone up in price a little too 

https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/brass-water-scoop-set/

Cheers,
Mark

 


Hi Mark,

Just to let you know that I did order a pair of these brass water scoop sets (the same evening that you suggested them) and they have only just arrived this morning !

The cost was £22.40 including postage and they are made by Raboesch  (Water-cooling Nipple  100-01   6mm M6).

My concerns about the dimensions are unfounded - they are the perfect size for my Swordsman (should that be Swordsmen?) and although they are a little expensive, they would also work well on any of my future powerboat builds...........so I had better start saving 

Stay safe,

Bob.

[mbm999]

Hi Bob,
Glad i could help!

Cheers,
Mark

[zooma]

I have had my first attempt at planking!

The rear cab roof that am working on was the recipient of my attentions and although it is not too bad - it could be better!

After I have sanded it to improve the surface, I will no doubt have to find out what to use as a grain filler (or even a small gap filler  - in my case!) followed by a sanding sealer (?) and some sort of varnish.

Any recommendations on any of the above would be gratefully received !

[DaveM]

A little research can yield a lot of information. I use Option #3 (Zap Finishing Resin and 34gsm cloth). I've found it wise not to mix a water-based finish with a solvent-based one or with a resin-based one, so once you've chosen a finish base-type then keep with it. 

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/finishing-and-sealing-of-wooden-hulls/18771

Dave M

[zooma]

A little research can yield a lot of information. I use Option #3 (Zap Finishing Resin and 34gsm cloth). I've found it wise not to mix a water-based finish with a solvent-based one or with a resin-based one, so once you've chosen a finish base-type then keep with it. 

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/finishing-and-sealing-of-wooden-hulls/18771

Dave M

Thanks Dave,

I never thought about using a cloth covering over the wood planked decks.

My thought process was to either varnish or perhaps consider epoxy resins, but first I need to find a suitable filler and sealer to prepare the surface.

As long as I can get a fine finish, I can see the benefits of sealing everything in with the cloth covering.

My first thought was to look for some clear polyurethane varnish - but that would probably be considered a bit "old fashioned" these days as this dates back to the 1960's when I last varnished a deck with a "marine varnish" and as far as I know that was just a clear polyurethane ? 

I also have some nice dye to give a realistic weather faded finish to one of my Swordsman decks, but I am asking about a clear finish as I would like to show the wood colours on one of the decks as a contrast to the other model that will have a "weathered deck".

Bob.

[zooma]

A little research can yield a lot of information. I use Option #3 (Zap Finishing Resin and 34gsm cloth). I've found it wise not to mix a water-based finish with a solvent-based one or with a resin-based one, so once you've chosen a finish base-type then keep with it. 

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/finishing-and-sealing-of-wooden-hulls/18771

Dave M

That is an excellent and helpful article on finishing a model using covering materials to improve the surface smoothness and to add strength etc. 

The first time I used Z-Poxxy with cloth was on the inside of my Swordsman around the motor mount and I found it to be a little too thick to penetrate the cloth readily and that made it difficult to keep the cloth from moving around on the end of the brush!

Tony suggested using a very thin coating of 3M SprayMount to hold the cloth in place and to thin the epoxy with Isopropel (rubbing alcohol) - so I put them both in my Amazon basket - and forgot about them - until now!

Both are now on the way to me so I will be ready to have another go with the finishing resin when they arrive.

I am still a little unsure about covering the deck planking with a cloth covering because I don't really want a "glass-like" finish on the planking, but I will experiment by planking a piece of scrap and try using the finishing resin with and without the cloth to see what it looks like before deciding which way to go!

Stay safe,

Bob.

[DaveM]

I am still a little unsure about covering the deck planking with a cloth covering because I don't really want a "glass-like" finish on the planking
Read the article again. None of my own models has ever used glass-cloth-plus-resin on areas which were subsequently finished in 'natural' wood stain and varnish. My current preference is for Rustin's Clear Plastic Coating 2-pack varnish followed by a rub-down with a Scotchbright pad to flatten it down. As I've always said, however, suit yourself.

Dave M

[zooma]

I have had my first attempt at planking!

The rear cab roof that am working on was the recipient of my attentions and although it is not too bad - it could be better!

After I have sanded it to improve the surface, I will no doubt have to find out what to use as a grain filler (or even a small gap filler  - in my case!) followed by a sanding sealer (?) and some sort of varnish.

Any recommendations on any of the above would be gratefully received !

Hi Dave,

Your answer to this question was to direct me to your article on hull finishing.........and I thought that was your answer to my question about what to use as a grain filler.

I was going to use sanding sealer but I was unsure if this would be a good idea if I was going to use a polyurethane yacht varnish to finish the deck as I thought that they may not be compatible with each other.

My original thought was to use yacht varnish on the planking,  and I have seen Rustins two pack "floor varnish" used on some models on this site :-:https://www.thercmodelboatforum.com   

Some like to build the two pack coating up over several applications and like the shiny finish, but taking it back to matt with a light abrasive (as you suggest) would be my preference.

I suppose it would be possible to achieve a similar result using finishing epoxy and taking that back to matt with a light abrasive too?

I am not in any rush, so I will experiment with different "varnish" finishes and epoxy some test pieces and see what works best for me.


Stay safe,


Bob.

[zooma]

Getting back to the build - I checked the strakes to rub-out any areas that needed some attention, so the underside of the hull is now ready for some more under-coat.

The planked rear cab top and the hatch was finished-off and is ready for finishing after I have experimented with different varnish (or even finishing epoxy) to decide what works best for me in my somewhat over-crowded workshop(shed).

I added a little lip to the rear of the cabin top as I thought it would look better when viewed from the stern - but that turned out to be a lot trickier than it should be and I may have to cut it off and try again!

I also added some mahogany capping to the Swordsman cab sides so when they are fully dried I can look to see what sort of profile would look best.  I am not sure if I should add some square stripping under the overlap to give it a thicker outer edge profile before I sand it to shape.

I also need to get some air intakes made and fitted and decide what to do about a deck finish.  If I keep practising with planking -  I might even get the hang of it one day.....

[zooma]

After doing a little more work on the Swordsman this afternoon, I thought I would get some varnish on order so it will be here when I need it - and to test against any other possible finish that I would like to try on my planked areas.

My first stop was on Rustins own site to see what they make that would be the most suitable, and the only coating that they sell for outdoor use (ie water-proof) is Rustins Yacht Varnish.

Their two-pack plastic coatings are not recommend for outdoor use - which came as a bit of a shock, so I checked their two-pack flooring range and again nothing was recommended for outdoor use!

Even their polyurethane varnish is now water based and is not suggested as being suitable for outdoor use!

My Swordsman is being built for regular use (and not as a display model) so it is looking like my initial thoughts on using yacht varnish could still be a good choice.

I will keep looking at other manufacturers products and I have also sent a product enquiry to Rustins to ask them if they have anything other than Rustins Yacht Varnish that would be suitable for regular outdoor use on the decking of a boat, yacht or radio controlled model boat (one that would get regular use and exposure to water).

Back in the 1960's I remember "International Yacht Varnish" was also being used on the decks of "the real thing" and r/c model yachts and models with planked decks so I will check them out as well and then get something on order that will work well outdoors and stay waterproof in use.

I would like to find something that will wear as well as the paint on the rest of the model, but maybe that is not possible?

I have made and modified anatomical pistol grips for years and use various finishing oils (mainly walnut oil on pistol grips) so I was thinking about trying various "stock finishing oils" as I know oils are also used for treating and protecting outdoor woods, but most of them will gradually turn grey when left outdoors without regular attention so at this moment I am thinking it has to be yacht varnish ......or perhaps a finishing epoxy?

I need to do some testing!

[Colin Bishop]

Try Ronseal Polyurethane hardglaze.

https://www.ronseal.com/for-home/wood-care/wood-varnish/ultra-tough-hardglaze-varnish/

Although noninally for interior use it is fine for models unless you leave them out in bright sunshine all the time in which case they might yellow a bit. Not a problem with model boats.

Blackfriar also sell the same type:

https://www.blackfriar.co.uk/product/polyurethane-varnish/

Colin

[zooma]

Try Ronseal Polyurethane hardglaze.

https://www.ronseal.com/for-home/wood-care/wood-varnish/ultra-tough-hardglaze-varnish/

Although noninally for interior use it is fine for models unless you leave them out in bright sunshine all the time in which case they might yellow a bit. Not a problem with model boats.

Blackfriar also sell the same type:

https://www.blackfriar.co.uk/product/polyurethane-varnish/

Colin

Good Shout!

Thanks Colin.......I had forgotten about Blackfriars  - but they have been around for ages ..and they say theirs is still spirit based!

Ronseal hard glaze is also "tough against water" so that could be spirit based too?

I will check them both out  - thanks for your contribution.

Bob.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, hardglaze is spirit based. I use it all the time.

Colin

[tonyH]

Planking pics.....

[zooma]

My 6 berth (?) Swordsman rear cab roof has a plywood skin and has been overlaid with planking (my first attempt at planking anything). Maybe if I can get a little better at adding planking to a model in the future, I will see if if I can replicate the distinctive caulking lines that can be seen on the real thing, but for now I have tried to use strips of wood that vary in shade a little and hope that when they are varnished they wont look too bad.

The un-finished turret will be the base for the escape hatch but I won't be dong any more work on that until after I have got some varnish on the planks and I have found some better pictures of the real thing as I believe the four bars that run across the top of it are right-angled sections of steel (presumably stainless).

On one Swordsman that I have seen pictures of, these four bars actually look a bit "agricultural", and (to me at least) don't look like they belong on such an expensive and well finished boat.  These four angle bars look like they are cut in the middle and welded in a peak shape to cover the domed roof light "lens" rather than being "shaped" to make them follow the lens curvature and look nicer.

I don't know how much detail I will try to replicate on this escape hatch as my Swordsman will be a "working boat" and so it will only be seen at some distance as it plows around the lake.  I also think I have positioned the escape hatch base a little too far forwards  - and that looks even worse now that I have added a small "lip" on the rear end of the cab roof - although the lip does make this cabin top look better when viewed from the stern than it did without the lip.

The wooden "cap" that temporarily sits on top of this base is too heavy and would make the escape hatch too tall, and even though I will be taking some "artistic licence" by claiming that my finished model has been "custom built to a particular customers individual specification" this needs changing and the finished item will be lower.

I think in the longer term I will scrap this roof and make anther one, but for now it will stay as I want to make some more progress on getting the boat on the water so I can enjoy running it. This lack of attention to detail would probably horrify the true scale modellers, but I like to use my boats rather than worry too much about every last detail  - if they "look right" - I am happy!

[Colin Bishop]

Looks pretty good to me.

Colin

[madwelshman]

Bob, I agree with Colin. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I can tell you now, if my first attempt at planking turns out that well, I'll be very happy indeed.


Will

[zooma]

The enquiry that I sent to Rustins regarding the suitability of any of their products for use on my planked decking received a reply this morning:-


"Thankyou for your query, our Yacht Varnish is the best option we have for a weather resistant finish on boat decking. We do not have a two part exterior finish in our range that would suit this application more than the Yacht Varnish."

For more information, please visit www.rustins.co.uk/rustins


kind regards,
Max Lloyd  Technical
Rustins LtdEst. 1924


I was pleased that Rustins took the time to reply to my enquiry and so I have ordered some Rustins Yacht varnish to use this time, but I will also remember the two spirit based varnishes from Ronseal and Blackfriers that Colin suggested for future reference as well..

[zooma]

Today I had two small 250ml tins of Rustins Yacht Varnish arrive in the post so I can get started with my plank finishing experiments.  I see the suggestion on the tin is to thin the first coat on previously untreated wood with 25% white spirit, so that should penetrate well into the planking.

Also (using Dave M's colour advice) I ordered some Ford Olympic Blue for the cab tops and some Ford Royal Blue for the cab sides (and stern), and these colours also arrived today so when the construction is finished I have the finishing colours in stock and ready to go.

I already have some white paint (although I have no idea what shade it is)  but I am fairly sure that it will look OK,    however,  I couldn't find anywhere that stocked any nice warm weather, so I may have to wait for that to arrive naturally!