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[Stuw]

How interesting. Didn't know such things existed. I definitely prefer to buy things rather than having to make them.


You're right - Low res. pictures hide a multitude of sins....


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

I’ve edited my post to remove my jest in case it wasn’t taken the right way! Also added a bit about my lack of knowledge on Tx and Rx orientation so thanks for that link!

[Fuse Wire]

I’ve edited my post to remove my jest in case it wasn’t taken the right way! Also added a bit about my lack of knowledge on Tx and Rx orientation so thanks for that link!

Hello Stuw


I certainly wasn't offended by your jest.


On the orientation of Tx and Rx antenna,  a lot of modellers have reported that it makes no difference, and that may be so in their case. On the other hand, if one is looking for the optimum performance, I prefer to look to the scientific evidence.


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[zooma]

Once you know the sort of size you need, I don’t mind helping to search. There are many many options out there..

Checking the Phill Connolly plans the dimensions for the rear hull side window is approximately 32mm long  x  15mm high including the 2mm window frame width.

Checking the same window from an Aerokits plan that I have here (in an original kit - not a copy plan)  the same overall measurements are 30mm wide  x  14.5mm high with no window frame shown on the drawing.

Basically they are near enough the same as each other so we are looking for something about 30mm long by 15mm high.

Most of the eyelets that I have seen are not very tall in height, but if there is anything close, I am sure it could be used.

[Stuw]

Indeed so far I’ve only found about 30-33mm wide and internal height about 6-7mm. When adding the rim you get about 11mm top to bottom but not quite the right thing?


I also googled “oval loop ring” and found these which obviously have a circular cross section so probably not the right look. Similar sort of sizing. Many options from many suppliers in different countries. Just for an example:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264964405671?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D6e6e55756b7d49bf97a27d94ca402825%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D264964377548%26itm%3D264964405671%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

I thought of eyelets because I had been thinking of alternatives to dashboard dial surrounds when I noticed some in the shed!


I’ve just thought of oval metal tube for wardrobes which fits the sort of size but wall thickness only about 1 mm and you’d only want a sliver off the end:


https://www.diydirect.com/oval-wardrobe-rails-chromed-15mm-x-30mm-x-1220mm-4-foot?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsciLzrG18AIVavx3Ch27pQt7EAQYCSABEgIEbfD_BwE

[zooma]

Indeed so far I’ve only found about 30-33mm wide and internal height about 6-7mm. When adding the rim you get about 11mm top to bottom but not quite the right thing?

I also googled “oval loop ring” and found these which obviously have a circular cross section so probably not the right look. Similar sort of sizing. Many options from many suppliers in different countries. Just for an example:

I thought of eyelets because I had been thinking of alternatives to dashboard dial surrounds when I noticed some in the shed!

Not to worry - we have the choice of either running our Swordsman without this small hull side window (as most do) or making our own frames from whatever material works best.

ABS plastic would be easy to cut and thin ply skins would do it too, alloy would look nice but it is probably the hardest of the options to cut to shape.

I used to know several people who would cnc alloy parts out for me when I was still working, if I still have their numbers I will see if I can arrange something.

As usual, making the programme is the time consuming bit, but "spitting out" small basic shapes like these should be quick and easy and can be really inexpensive as long as "large numbers" are needed because the programming cost is usually amatised  (programme cost divided by the number of components and costed per item + machine time + material cost).

Getting the programme done as a 'favour" might be the best option as we are unlikely to need thousands of them!

[Stuw]

Indeed. Got a bit carried away trying to source something in metal when a styrene frame painted would be simpler for me!

[zooma]

Indeed. Got a bit carried away trying to source something in metal when a styrene frame painted would be simpler for me!

...........and me 

[Fuse Wire]

Indeed. Got a bit carried away trying to source something in metal when a styrene frame painted would be simpler for me!

Hello Stuw


I'm afraid my frames are 1.5mm thick aluminium alloy, but it's pretty easy to shape.


Mine is the 33 inch long AeroKits Swordsman. I bought the kit in about 1970 and it cost £5.95.


The plan that came with the kit did not show the rear cabin windows, so I scaled them off pictures of real Swordsman.


Here are the drawings of what I made, and the fixing position relative to the corner of the transom. The decorative arrow (not shown)  is central on the windows.


The frames are held on with M2 domed head, hex, stainless steel screws. Once you have screwed them on you can cut out the wood using them as template. The glazings are just rectangles of polycarbonate fitted to the inside of the cabin.


I used a filing button 16mm dia, 4mm small dia to make the curved ends neat.


As I mentioned, I may put a light in the cabin. I think Bournville Model Boat club has an evening regatta, where the boats are illuminated.


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[Fuse Wire]

Thanks for the extra information Fuse Wire.

I really like the oblong rear window frame on the rear side of the hull - sadly window frames of this shape are no longer commercially available.  Did you make yours, or were you lucky enough to have bought one when they were still made?

I see on your wiring diagram that you are using a Tornado 4260 -500KV out-runner and that you are useing a 4mm prop shaft.   Let us know how well it goes when you have had a chance to run it.

Stay safe!

Bob.

Hello Bob 


You asked me about the Tornado 4260 - 500KV out-runner: This is the reference I was thinking about, and the main reason why I fitted that motor to my 33 inch Swordsman. I have asked 'flack' for more details, and if he did in fact run it in a 46 inch Sea Queen. But the post is about four years old and I have not had a reply yet.


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[Fuse Wire]

Thanks for the extra information Fuse Wire.

I really like the oblong rear window frame on the rear side of the hull - sadly window frames of this shape are no longer commercially available.  Did you make yours, or were you lucky enough to have bought one when they were still made?

I see on your wiring diagram that you are using a Tornado 4260 -500KV out-runner and that you are useing a 4mm prop shaft.   Let us know how well it goes when you have had a chance to run it.

Stay safe!

Bob.

Hello Bob


In my reply regarding the Tornado 4260 - 500KV motor I forgot to add the Link, so here it is:


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=58719.0


I have messaged Flack and asked if he ran it in a 46 inch Sea Queen. I have not had a reply, but the the post was four years old.


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[zooma]

Don't worry too much about the motor info regarding how it performed in a Sea Queen as it may not be very much comparative help to you in any case.

The same motor may perform in a very different way in a different size and type of boat, and some owners who would be really happy to cruise around at a decent scale speed may have a very different expectation to someone why wants the highest possible performance who is happy with short run times between charges etc.

I am happy to cruise around at a scale speed with my TID tug knowing that it will run all day on a 6 volt dry battery or with a slightly improved speed for most of the day if I changed to a 12 volt dry battery.

This same performance would not impress me at all in a Swordsman as I would be looking for a performance superior to what my 10cc Merco 61 TwinPlug ic motor delivered in my last Aerokits Swordsman back in the 1960's as I like my powerboats to make some "white water" and deliver a good turn of speed.

When we have a few of us running our 1/12 scale Swordsman it would be interesting to compare our findings with our different brushless motor, ESC, propeller type and LiPo choices.

Stay safe - and enjoy your weekend!

Bob.

[Fuse Wire]

Don't worry too much about the motor info regarding how it performed in a Sea Queen as it may not be very much comparative help to you in any case.

The same motor may perform in a very different way in a different size and type of boat, and some owners who would be really happy to cruise around at a decent scale speed may have a very different expectation to someone why wants the highest possible performance who is happy with short run times between charges etc.

I am happy to cruise around at a scale speed with my TID tug knowing that it will run all day on a 6 volt dry battery or with a slightly improved speed for most of the day if I changed to a 12 volt dry battery.

This same performance would not impress me at all in a Swordsman as I would be looking for a performance superior to what my 10cc Merco 61 TwinPlug ic motor delivered in my last Aerokits Swordsman back in the 1960's as I like my powerboats to make some "white water" and deliver a good turn of speed.

When we have a few of us running our 1/12 scale Swordsman it would be interesting to compare our findings with our different brushless motor, ESC, propeller type and LiPo choices.

Stay safe - and enjoy your weekend!

Bob.

Hello Bob


You're absolutely right. Lets see how various motors perform. I've got a laser tachometer and voltage/current data recorders in my Swordsman. I don't have torque or speed sensors. I can't find cheap ones, so if anyone has any suggestions let us know.


Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[Stuw]

Thanks for the detail on that window. I too would be I interested in performance of your motor setup, especially as you have a tachometer installed.


kV (and associated rpm based on volts provided) and prop size are the variables as I understand it. So a 500kV on 3S will have lower rpm than a 1900kV for example but “could” take a larger prop potentially without overheating versus the higher rpm motor?


Sorry not wanting to digress but I’m still intrigued by the various kV options. I’ve got a 1900kV motor which I haven’t used yet but I’m planning 2S as rpm could be excessive otherwise. My prop will start small to avoid trashing everything!

[Fuse Wire]

Thanks for the detail on that window. I too would be I interested in performance of your motor setup, especially as you have a tachometer installed.


kV (and associated rpm based on volts provided) and prop size are the variables as I understand it. So a 500kV on 3S will have lower rpm than a 1900kV for example but “could” take a larger prop potentially without overheating versus the higher rpm motor?


Sorry not wanting to digress but I’m still intrigued by the various kV options. I’ve got a 1900kV motor which I haven’t used yet but I’m planning 2S as rpm could be excessive otherwise. My prop will start small to avoid trashing everything!

Hello Stuw

The tachometer cost the princely sum of £8.99. The laser points to a white patch stuck on the back of the motor casing (outrunner). The tachometer is held in place with Velcro. If you hold down the TEST button  it will remember: Lowest Revs, Max Revs, and Last Revs.  When you press MEM Button, it will display the aforementioned values. You can keep the TEST Button held down with Velcro while the boat is on the water. it seems to work ok, but because of lockdown LizzyB has not been on the water yet.

Here's the ebay link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383733541209

I only came across the unit of KV last year, after a 50 years break from making model boats, and was totally confused (still am to some extent). I though it had something to do with Kilovolts - it doesn't! As I understand: The KV motor rating is the speed of the motor in thousands of revs perm minute,  with out any load applied, per volt of the battery voltage. So in my case, with a 500KV motor and 3S Lipos (12 volts approx), the free load speed is 500 x 12 = 6000rpm, and that's what I actually measure with my tachometer.

Long, long, before brushless motors were invented, I studied Applied Thermodynamics mainly in relation to ic engines. The performance of the engine was invariably shown on graphs such as torque against rpm, BHP against rpm, and so on. I have NEVER seen such a graph for a brushless motor. We can find the maximum off-load rpm (in my case 6000rpm), and are often given the maximum power (in my case 900W), but we are not told at what speed the maximum power is produced, or if the power is the input electrical power or output mechanical power. So if anyone can point me to a simple history of this strange new unit, the KV and absence of power/speed curves - I'm all ears...

Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[zooma]

Hello Stuw

The tachometer cost the princely sum of £8.99. The laser points to a white patch stuck on the back of the motor casing (outrunner). The tachometer is held in place with Velcro. If you hold down the TEST button  it will remember: Lowest Revs, Max Revs, and Last Revs.  When you press MEM Button, it will display the aforementioned values. You can keep the TEST Button held down with Velcro while the boat is on the water. it seems to work ok, but because of lockdown LizzyB has not been on the water yet.

Here's the ebay link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383733541209

Kind regards - Fuse Wire

Sadly these are no longer available - I just tried to buy one!


It looks like the same thing is still being sold by other sellers a higher prices!


Bob.

[Fuse Wire]

Sadly these are no longer available - I just tried to buy one!


It looks like the same thing is still being sold by other sellers a higher prices!


Bob.



Hello Bob

That's a shame. I'm sure they are all very similar. I'd still pay £10 or £12 - even a bit more. I'd just go with a UK supplier with a decent rating.

Kind regards - Fuse Wire

[zooma]

I just bought one on eBay for £9.49 from "toolworld-uk"

.......and it is being delivered from  Guangzhou China.

...with an estimated delivery between Wednesday 26 May and Friday 9 Jul.   

[zooma]

I saw another unfinished Aerokits Swordsman for sale the other day and thought that it may like a new home with some fellow Fairey craft 

The plan is to get this one finished and on the water as soon as possible without spending too much time on adding details that I wont be able to see when it is out on the water giving me some fun !

A plain painted finish is planned with no added planking, so I guess it could look like one of the racing Swordsman craft?  I will see if I can find any pictures of a "racing Swordsman" but if not I will just paint it with whatever colours I have available.

I have a spare alloy water cooled mount and a suitable motor so as long as the shaft is an M5 it will not take too long to fit it out and get it painted, but if it has an M4 shaft I would like get that changed to an M5 so I don't have to go back to it at a later date.

Lets hope it has been put together OK and will not need too much (none would be nice) restorative work to get it finished and working reasonably quickly.

[madwelshman]

Well done Bob, good to see another one being saved, finished off and then enjoyed.


Yours looks very tidy from what I could see in the pictures.


Looking forward to seeing your progress on this one.


Will

[madwelshman]

As Bob invited me to share my Swordsman in this thread, here it is as bought.

As you can see, it needs a fair bit of work, but it will get done and back on the water.

Like all of my boats are going to be, it will be converted to brushless. But as it's in a 'bit of a queue' of projects    it may be a while before I make a start on it.


Will

[Capt Podge]

That looks like a complete strip-down job Will - take plenty photos when you get started on it and maybe start a new thread when you do...

These refurbishments seem to take longer than a new build - kit or scratchbuilds - good luck with it anyway.

Ray.

[madwelshman]

Thanks Ray.


The hull seems pretty good to be fair, no soft spots or anything like that(that I've found).  So full strip down, I don't know if I'll go that far or not. Time will tell when I start to delve into it. But for now, it can gather dust with the others and await it's turn.
I can however well believe that these resto projects take up much more time than working with nice new, solid, clean materials.
I have Lesro Rapier and Javelin kits that have never been started to build one day, plus a Fairey Huntress too, so I have those to look forward to tackling one day as my first kit builds.


Will

[madwelshman]

more pics

[canabus]

Hi madwelshman


It has taken me a week to strip, remove nails, fill and sand under my new/old boat !!!


Canabus

[zooma]

That looks like a complete strip-down job Will - take plenty photos when you get started on it and maybe start a new thread when you do...

These refurbishments seem to take longer than a new build - kit or scratchbuilds - good luck with it anyway.

Ray.

I hope you don't fit the windscreen on backwards (as shown in your first picture)  - but it would be handy if you intend going backwards a lot 

Thanks for adding your Aerokits Swordsman to this thread Will - it could help to expand it into a very useful reference for Aerokits Swordsman models, as when we build and restore ours we should (between us) cover just about everything!