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Author Topic: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C  (Read 1573 times)

frogman3

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HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« on: August 22, 2020, 07:02:23 PM »

HELP can anyone help me as to whether there is a failsafe unit for 2.4 gig R/C as my ship ran away out of control an i have a failsafe unit fitted but ive found iT doesn't work with 2.4 gig R/C as it was on my 40 meg R/C SET so can anyone HELP ME ?
CHRIS
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barriew

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2020, 07:28:04 PM »

It depends on the make of the Tx.


Barrie
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2020, 07:39:59 PM »

It depends on the make of the Tx.


Barrie


HI Barrie the TX is a  FUTABA  6 CHANNEL T6L  SPORT 2.4 GIG
CRIS
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Shipmate60

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Re: HELP
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2020, 07:56:34 PM »

What radio set is it?


Bob
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2020, 07:58:53 PM »

Just done a bench test using a Saturn with a Marine Viper 25.
Switch on the usual way, set for forward running, switch off transmitter.  The motor immediately stopped, but started again on switching the transmitter back on.  The rudder, hard over, stayed put, but restored to dead ahead on switching the transmitter back on as the stick had centered when I Let go to switch back on again.


Pre-2G4 radios losing signal would generally stop giving an output.  This would (depending on ESC) stop the ESC, but leave any servo in whatever state it was when the signal went.  A fail safe would generally drive a throttle servo to idle or stop.
2G4 radios might work differently, each make, and a lot of models within the make, will respond differently, and might well have a setting that convinces your "fail safe" circuit that all is well.  A long, careful read of the instructions might help find out if this is the case.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2020, 08:00:44 PM »

Copied across from the other thread -

Just done a bench test using a Saturn with a Marine Viper 25.
Switch on the usual way, set for forward running, switch off transmitter.  The motor immediately stopped, but started again on switching the transmitter back on.  The rudder, hard over, stayed put, but restored to dead ahead on switching the transmitter back on as the stick had centered when I l
et go to switch back on again.




Pre-2G4 radios losing signal would generally stop giving an output.  This would (depending on ESC) stop the ESC, but leave any servo in whatever state it was when the signal went.  A fail safe would generally drive a throttle servo to idle or stop.
2G4 radios might work differently, each make, and a lot of models within the make, will respond differently, and might well have a setting that convinces your "fail safe" circuit that all is well.  A long, careful read of the instructions might help find out if this is the case.
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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2020, 08:03:50 PM »

What radio set is it?


Bob


HI Bob  the tx is a futaba T6L SPORT 6CHANNEL 2.4 GIG
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HELP
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2020, 08:59:02 PM »

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf


Page 13 indicates that the failsafe is set at transmitter power up, and is set at whatever position the ratchet LH stick is in at that point. The manual shows the normal position for a powered aircraft, but you would need to ensure that on power up your stick is in the neutral position instead ( halfway point between up and down ). Failsafe only available on Ch3.
Try it and see what happens.
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RST

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2020, 09:56:59 PM »

I was going to say, it's been so long since I ran a nitro engine -the little in-line capacitor unit / box of tricks wouldn't know whether it was 27, 40MHz or 2.4Ghz, it was just plugged mid-line and would just recognise when a Tx signal was lost via the Rx and just returning that servo to (or close) to neutral.  I thought 2.4Ghz was supposed to eliminate all that, ESC's normally don't need it anyway?
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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2020, 09:59:07 PM »

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf


Page 13 indicates that the failsafe is set at transmitter power up, and is set at whatever position the ratchet LH stick is in at that point. The manual shows the normal position for a powered aircraft, but you would need to ensure that on power up your stick is in the neutral position instead ( halfway point between up and down ). Failsafe only available on Ch3.
Try it and see what happens.


OK MANY THANKS I'LL HAVE A GO CHEERS
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C-3PO

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2020, 12:38:35 AM »

Futaba Manual states on page 13 - My take if you follow the pic below at power on for a model boat you will have selected full reverse as a fail safe setting with a ESC capable of forward & reverse - unless of course you have the channel reversed  {-)

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf



C-3PO
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RST

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2020, 12:44:34 AM »

OP suggests they have a failsafe fitted anyway -doesnt say the circumstances though so it's a bit of a mixed message?  I only have one 2.4Ghz set and if signal is lost it switches off also, or tends to but OP says failsafe fitted anyway?
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justboatonic

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2020, 12:45:02 AM »

LOL, was just about to post that!
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RST

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2020, 12:53:36 AM »

LOL, was just about to post that!


Have found very little need for them, except for a very brief spell running nitro powered engines where I thought it a must in throttle. Might not be the same circumstance though.....
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2020, 08:29:25 AM »

It might be a good idea for these two threads to be combined to save duplication.
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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2020, 06:16:50 PM »

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf


Page 13 indicates that the failsafe is set at transmitter power up, and is set at whatever position the ratchet LH stick is in at that point. The manual shows the normal position for a powered aircraft, but you would need to ensure that on power up your stick is in the neutral position instead ( halfway point between up and down ). Failsafe only available on Ch3.
Try it and see what happens.


HI Thanks for the info an yes it does say that in my instuctions booklet an i treid it an it worked a few times but not all the time so its unreliabable so what now ?
chris
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2020, 06:36:34 PM »

It might be a good idea for these two threads to be combined to save duplication.
YES i aggree
chris
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2020, 06:39:19 PM »

Futaba Manual states on page 13 - My take if you follow the pic below at power on for a model boat you will have selected full reverse as a fail safe setting with a ESC capable of forward & reverse - unless of course you have the channel reversed  {-)

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf



C-3PO


HI C-3PO well i treid it an an like you say in op booklet but it only works now an again so its not trustworthy
chris
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HELP
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2020, 09:10:01 PM »

This might be down to the left stick being a ratchet type, so never in the same place twice on start up. I am not sure how you tested it but if you were cycling the on/off switch up and down to see if it failsafed, that may have thrown it out. An alternative might be trying to figure out why it ran away in the first place, this is a pretty uncommon occurrence with 2.4G and probably more so with a decent brand of radio.
What actually happened when the model went out of control and what other kit is in the model?


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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 09:08:30 AM »

This might be down to the left stick being a ratchet type, so never in the same place twice on start up. I am not sure how you tested it but if you were cycling the on/off switch up and down to see if it failsafed, that may have thrown it out. An alternative might be trying to figure out why it ran away in the first place, this is a pretty uncommon occurrence with 2.4G and probably more so with a decent brand of radio.
What actually happened when the model went out of control and what other kit is in the model?
 


HI   so does this 2.4 gig  failsafe  need to be set up every time i switch on ? as i thought once its set by the makers its set so if  the R/X  louses signal the failsafe just cuts in an cuts off power to the motors like it does on 40 meg as that one works fine.


 An how i tested it was just turn off the T/X power so the green led on the R/X went from green to red an like i said it worked  a couple of times by cuttin the power to the motors so they were just tickin over an then when i restored power by switchin the T/X back on the motors came back up to their previous power settin so it failsafed dint it ?


  but when i treid again after a little while of lettin the motors run for a few minutes no joy the motors just kept running at that set speed before i treid. An as for why it ran away in the first place i have no idea as  before this she had been sailin ok for 10mins or more the T/X batts were ok as the red led in the T/X was blindin bright as they are duracell batts fitted so i dont think it was a poor T/X signal.


An  what other kit fitted in her well i must admit its a quite a complex model eg. voltage reducer fitted down to 6v for the units that need it an a smoke unit that has the power increased to  24 v ,an radar motor, an whooper an fog horn sound units an hangar bay  door open an close fitted with a servo moph ,an a helicopter runnin on 6v power but all these units run off their own batt as in the model there is a two circut system an these are seperate from the main motors system as the motors  circut is just that for the motors with their own MAIN BATT an fuses an such. Thats the  best i can exsplain it an ive had this type of system used in all my big models ships they were ok when on 40 meg so it looks like i'll have to go back to 40 meg then
AN a linkpic of the model
 https://ibb.co/jWYGjDY
chris
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C-3PO

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Re: HELP
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2020, 09:43:05 AM »

 
HI   so does this 2.4 gig  failsafe  need to be set up every time i switch on ? a

Looking at the instructions the answer is yes.

With some radios you can "program/set" the fail safe and it is stored until overwritten.

It looks like the radio you are using simply takes the "stick position" each and every time at power on of the TX and uses that as the fail safe - this would not be so bad if you have a sprung throttle stick which returns to a central position and an ESC that also gets it's neutral postion on power on.

C-3PO
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HELP
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2020, 09:44:45 AM »

Reading the instructions over again, it looks like the failsafe position is set based on the stick position every time you switch on. I have a similar issue with an F14 Twinstick and a couple of sound units. They read neutral at the point of turning on the set, with the ratchets fitted, this varies just a bit each time. This has caused some problems with me trying to find the shut down positions, so tne sound units will shut up1 I have ended up opening the set up and filing slightly deeper notches on the internal ratchet at the neutral position. All I have to do now is ensure I have the sticks in the deep ratchets when I turn the set on. Your other option is to try and source a spring return kit for the throttle stick, or swap out the one on the right hand side of the set to the left. This would give you a positive failsafe position every time you turn the set on.
You still need to work out why you had a signal brownout in the first place. Check your batteries and check the spring contacts in the back of the set for corrosion.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2020, 10:05:19 AM »

OP suggests they have a failsafe fitted anyway -doesnt say the circumstances though so it's a bit of a mixed message?  I only have one 2.4Ghz set and if signal is lost it switches off also, or tends to but OP says failsafe fitted anyway?
An extra "failsafe" circuit on a system that has its own "failsafe" built in is probably redundant.  The built in system "failsafe" will, at best, prevent the extra box from working by ensuring that there is never a "signal lost" condition coming out of the receiver.
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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2020, 10:10:52 AM »

HI AN THANKS GUYS C3PO  an unbuiltnautilus for your input could try what you suggest but as for [size=0px] corrosion no way ive looked there when i took out the batts to check them on a batt checker an this R/C is still nr new as i only bought it a about a yr ago  well any way will for now try an set the throttle setin right in the centre of up an down an see how i get on as i must admit this 2.4g is a big dissapointment to me as i was goin to buy a 14 channell carsons  2.4 g  R/C  for my tiger build so ive plenty of channels to work things but i think now thats on hold for now[/size][/font][/font][/size]
[size=0px]all best guys [/size][/font]
[/size][size=0px]chris[/size] <:( [/size][size=0px] [/size]
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justboatonic

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Re: HELP
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2020, 10:32:49 AM »

This radio doesnt have a 'fail safe.' It has a 'safe start up' procedure of throttle at bottom stick then switch on which Futaba have erroneously called a fail safe.
A fail safe should drive selected servos or esc to a pre determined position. This set doesnt do this.
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