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Author Topic: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C  (Read 1577 times)

frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2020, 07:21:39 PM »

There is more power capability in four AA NiCadS or four AA NiMH cells than duracell alkaline batteries. That is the reason Futaba specify not to use a dry cell pack.
microgyros

HI THANKS for your quote an i think the best way is leave every thing switched off an if she sail ok that should be the cure then i'll rewire her an i think i'll fit a spring on the throttle of the T/X to try an cure the F/S
chris
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justboatonic

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2020, 11:44:49 PM »

Well guys AFTER that relavation i think what i will do is leave all the workin features goin but fit in a 4 x double AA   BATT PACK for just the R/X alone an alter the R/X aireal so its pointin upwards out of the deck an see what that does an leave the T/X alone for now god it could be so many things as this is a complex model
chris
You will be ok to use 4 dry cells in the Tx as stated in the User Guide. Nominal voltage on these cells is 1.5v so 6v. To be honest, I wouldnt want to fly a plane with this radio and 4 dry cells. It would work out expensive.

The UG shows an Rx supply as an FR2F1800 6.6v 1800mah battery or with a bec equipped esc motor battery supply of a max 7.4v. Although the UG states the voltage range for the Rx is 4.8 to 7.4v. Nominal voltage on nicad \ nimh cells is around 1.2v each.

For a surface vehicle with 2 servos, powering the Rx off 4 of these, you'd be right at the bottom of the Rx voltage operating range.
If you have 7 (?)servos in the boat, 4.8v isnt going to be nearly enough as the servos will draw current and voltage even when idle. This is likely why you're only getting 60 to 100 foot range and iffy results.
I'd suggest you use something like the FR2F1800 battery to power your Rx.
Yes, repositioning the Rx aerial is a good idea.
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microgyros

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2020, 12:18:28 AM »

... but fit in a 4 x double AA   BATT PACK for just the R/X alone ...
I missed that mention.
Yes I considered it too but perhaps after you are happy with results of a simpler & quick diagnostic test.
It's hardly worth the extra work if you already have a suitable battery pack to supply the servos together with the receiver and everything else.
What escs are you using?
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RST

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2020, 01:00:10 AM »

I don't know what an UG is but I mentioned to Chris on PM to take a step back and try and test things in series and hopefully, in isolation to make sure each part works as expected. Then work outwards.  I should just step back on 2.4GHz terminology as not sure all the terms.


Edit: just realised UG is the manual.
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2020, 07:45:34 AM »

You will be ok to use 4 dry cells in the Tx as stated in the User Guide. Nominal voltage on these cells is 1.5v so 6v. To be honest, I wouldnt want to fly a plane with this radio and 4 dry cells. It would work out expensive.

The UG shows an Rx supply as an FR2F1800 6.6v 1800mah battery or with a bec equipped esc motor battery supply of a max 7.4v. Although the UG states the voltage range for the Rx is 4.8 to 7.4v. Nominal voltage on nicad \ nimh cells is around 1.2v each.

For a surface vehicle with 2 servos, powering the Rx off 4 of these, you'd be right at the bottom of the Rx voltage operating range.
If you have 7 (?)servos in the boat, 4.8v isnt going to be nearly enough as the servos will draw current and voltage even when idle. This is likely why you're only getting 60 to 100 foot range and iffy results.
I'd suggest you use something like the FR2F1800 battery to power your Rx.
Yes, repositioning the Rx aerial is a good idea.


HI  [size=78%]justboatonic  THIS batt [/size][/size][size=78%]FR2F1800 whats its like an wheight as im limited to wheight in where my R/X power POSTION IS in the hull  could you post a pic of it please an where to get one if i can as funds are not great at the moment ( poll tax due ?  an i thought id got the  R/X aeiral AS CLOSE to the deck as possible an its right at the front under the 4.5" gun so well away from motor's an ESC  but im game to drill a  small hole in the deck an have the aeiral pointin straight up is that a good idea ? as this is a very exspensive model an dont want to wreck it [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]chris [/size]
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2020, 07:57:51 AM »

I missed that mention.
Yes I considered it too but perhaps after you are happy with results of a simpler & quick diagnostic test.
It's hardly worth the extra work if you already have a suitable battery pack to supply the servos together with the receiver and everything else.
What escs are you using?


AN hi microgyros  what ESC im usein its an eletronize 30 amp FR30HX microprosser fairly heavy duty i think it is   as i like these as they can be set up for speed range easy as not
had much luck with other ESC's  an the cost makes me want to use it
chris
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2020, 08:13:30 AM »

I don't know what an UG is but I mentioned to Chris on PM to take a step back and try and test things in series and hopefully, in isolation to make sure each part works as expected. Then work outwards.  I should just step back on 2.4GHz terminology as not sure all the terms.


Edit: just realised UG is the manual.


AN HI RST an yes i was confused at the term UG  he's right but now you mention it ive now got it but as you say step back as you said because im gettin a bit confused with all this an the grey matter has gone a bit cloudy but thinkin this through nr everything works ok its just the failsafe thats the issuse  so im gonna alter the aeireal an have it stickin up through the deck so it can get as much signal as possible an stick a spring on the throttle an see what happens  but again all you guys who have put in your pence worth thank you very much an its certainly gave us all something to think an talk about has'nt it CHEERS ALL
chris
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2020, 08:50:19 AM »


If you have 7 (?)servos in the boat, 4.8v isnt going to be nearly enough as the servos will draw current and voltage even when idle.

Yes, repositioning the Rx aerial is a good idea.
While having the right voltage is important, what is more important is that the battery can both supply the current while maintaining the voltage under full load.  A radio plus 7 servos idle will probably pull under 100mA.  All of the servos going off at the same time, something over 3 Amps.  A good NiMH pack (with good wiring and connections) supplying a nominal 6 volts should give a healthy reserve of voltage and ability to deliver the required current.  The BEC built into the ESC might not be up to the maximum demand that might be made on it which "might" cause the voltage to dip.
Back when I was working for a living, it was surprising how many unlikely problems on customer equipment were caused by a poor power supply, and by that I mean a plug top transformer that was marginally adequate the was in the box with the gear.
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C-3PO

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2020, 09:14:21 AM »

Hi Chris,

With a large complex model with lots of components hanging off the receiver I think you are likely to have the potential to bump into issues with the power supply especailly if a servo stalls, batteries start to run low etc. etc. etc.

So why not split/seperate the power supply.

One power source for the "Mission Critical" aspect - receiver and rudder servo another source for all the "nice to have but not important" accessories - rotating guns etc.

It's a very easy thing to achieve - it uses a simple wiring harness - I do it all the time when driving servo's etc from microprocessors which don't have the current handling ability to drive servo(s).

If you want to give it a go PM me your address and I'll post you a harness.

Regards

C-3PO
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2020, 09:34:08 AM »

While having the right voltage is important, what is more important is that the battery can both supply the current while maintaining the voltage under full load.  A radio plus 7 servos idle will probably pull under 100mA.  All of the servos going off at the same time, something over 3 Amps.  A good NiMH pack (with good wiring and connections) supplying a nominal 6 volts should give a healthy reserve of voltage and ability to deliver the required current.  The BEC built into the ESC might not be up to the maximum demand that might be made on it which "might" cause the voltage to dip.
Back when I was working for a living, it was surprising how many unlikely problems on customer equipment were caused by a poor power supply, and by that I mean a plug top transformer that was marginally adequate the was in the box with the gear.


HI Malcolm  my ESC has'nt got a BEC it says so in the in the instruckions
chris
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microgyros

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2020, 10:10:06 AM »

The speed control paperwork will state the limit on voltage from the receiver. If memory serves, there is a mention of an internal regulator allowing a higher level on the 3-pin plug.
 
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frogman3

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2020, 10:42:21 AM »

The speed control paperwork will state the limit on voltage from the receiver. If memory serves, there is a mention of an internal regulator allowing a higher level on the 3-pin plug.
THANK you for the info [size=78%]microgyros[/size]
[/size][size=78%]chris[/size]
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malcolmfrary

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2020, 12:05:53 PM »


HI Malcolm  my ESC has'nt got a BEC it says so in the in the instruckions
chris
Sorry, I missed that bit. 
Either a good receiver battery and harness to the receiver, OR a handy thing called a UBEC to get the required receiver voltage from the main battery.  They are available very cheaply rated up to 5A, give a very stable 5 volts, and save the hassle of forgetting to charge a separate battery.
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justboatonic

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2020, 12:29:27 PM »


HI  [size=78%]justboatonic  THIS batt [/size][size=78%]FR2F1800 whats its like an wheight as im limited to wheight in where my R/X power POSTION IS in the hull  could you post a pic of it please an where to get one if i can as funds are not great at the moment ( poll tax due ?  an i thought id got the  R/X aeiral AS CLOSE to the deck as possible an its right at the front under the 4.5" gun so well away from motor's an ESC  but im game to drill a  small hole in the deck an have the aeiral pointin straight up is that a good idea ? as this is a very exspensive model an dont want to wreck it [/size]

[size=78%]chris [/size]

The FR2F1800 is quite chunky but you need the amps capacity not just voltage. Dimensions are approx, length 44m, 70mm wide, 16.5mm high. Roughly 2 inches long by 3 wide by 3/4 inch high. Unfortunately, being Futaba it is expensive at about 25 plus you'd need the dedicated charger.

Hobbyking UK has a similar voltage and capacity nimh pack for just over 6 plus postage.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-receiver-pack-2-3a-1500mah-6-0v-nimh-high-power-series.html?queryID=&objectID=41328&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products

Alternatively, Vapextech do this one.

https://www.vapextech.co.uk/batteries/radio-control/6v-6-6v/

Futaba 2.4Ghz radio is usually very good at rejecting motor interference unlike the old 40mhz FM radio. Positioning of the 2.4Ghz aerial isnt as critical but you need it above the waterline.

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frogman3

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Re: HELP
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2020, 02:19:54 PM »

http://www.ripmax.de/media/download//m/a/manual_t6l_e_.pdf


Page 13 indicates that the failsafe is set at transmitter power up, and is set at whatever position the ratchet LH stick is in at that point. The manual shows the normal position for a powered aircraft, but you would need to ensure that on power up your stick is in the neutral position instead ( halfway point between up and down ). Failsafe only available on Ch3.
Try it and see what happens.


HI ALL well this is not my new R/C SO please dont think that this is my FUTABA 6CHA 2.4 gig that i had trouble with on the failsafe as the model went rouge up the pond when i was sailing  a couple of weeks ago well this morn i bought the spring an the arm to fit the throttle on cha 3


 an i took off the ratchet an fitted in the spring an its arm an now treid the model for FAIL SAFE CUTOUT an it works everytime as i treid it 5 times of running the motors an switchin off the t/x so no signal an the green led  changed to red an the motors stopped straight away how the FAIL SAFE should work hooooorrrraaayyy so i got something right an many thanks to you guys for puttin me on the right track cheers   all 
chris
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HELP FAILSAFE FOR A 2.4 GIG R/C
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2020, 07:19:21 PM »

 :-))
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