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Author Topic: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar  (Read 2787 times)

Capsize

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Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« on: August 30, 2020, 09:10:08 am »

Hi there,

Fairly new to rc scale boats, having spent many years scale modelling. I’ve just completed my first during lockdown - a 1/72 scale armed Tree Class Trawler, converted and shortened from an old Matchbox Flower Class hull, and re-built using photos kindly supplied from the RNPS Museum in Lowestoft when an in person visit was impossible.

I enjoyed building this so much, I decided to take on another project... a rather tired Deans Marine HMS Kelly. Pictures attached.

It needs stripping down, missing parts added, repainting and lots of scale detail adding in - ropes, rigging, crew etc. I am really looking forward to getting started.

I’d like to rebuild this as either the Javelin, or Kandahar which both have interesting paint schemes.

A few questions if I may to those of you who know this particular kit:

1. The mast needs replacing with a lattice type, funnel is not right, it’s missing rear torpedo tubes or a QF gun, but can you comment on what else is missing from the superstructure?

2. Where can I get deck plans or find great images to study for scale detail?

3. Was the Kelly built the same as the Javelin and Kandahar - I am not clear if J and K class were simply their flotilla or meant superstructure, deck layouts and armament were different?

Lastly if anyone has any superstructure spares to help me with the refit, please get in touch or links to good suppliers. Funnel, mast, rear tubes or QF platform would all be helpful as Deans tell me they only supply full kits, otherwise I will scratch build.

Many thanks for any help
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derekwarner

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2020, 09:22:42 am »


....have increased the font size to enable all to read your message.............Derek
-----------------------------------------

Hi there,
Fairly new to rc scale boats, having spent many years scale modelling. I’ve just completed my first during lockdown - a 1/72 scale armed Tree Class Trawler, converted and shortened from an old Matchbox Flower Class hull, and re-built using photos kindly supplied from the RNPS Museum in Lowestoft when an in person visit was impossible.I enjoyed building this so much, I decided to take on another project... a rather tired Deans Marine HMS Kelly. Pictures attached.It needs stripping down, missing parts added, repainting and lots of scale detail adding in - ropes, rigging, crew etc. I am really looking forward to getting started.I’d like to rebuild this as either the Javelin, or Kandahar which both have interesting paint schemes.
A few questions if I may to those of you who know this particular kit:1. The mast needs replacing with a lattice type, funnel is not right, it’s missing rear torpedo tubes or a QF gun, but can you comment on what else is missing from the superstructure?2. Where can I get deck plans or find great images to study for scale detail?3. Was the Kelly built the same as the Javelin and Kandahar - I am not clear if J and K class were simply their flotilla or meant superstructure, deck layouts and armament were different?Lastly if anyone has any superstructure spares to help me with the refit, please get in touch or links to good suppliers. Funnel, mast, rear tubes or QF platform would all be helpful as Deans tell me they only supply full kits, otherwise I will scratch build.Many thanks for any help
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Beagle1831

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2020, 10:13:00 am »

An attempt at some answers. I built a Deans Javelin about 15 years ago and was always a great model to sail. There are similarities with the O class which took many features from the J, K Ns.


1) From a quick look I think those are the main missing structures. I would also check the positions of the ships boats there might be another set of davits on the port side opposite the whaler.


2) For references I would check out 'The Kellys' by Langtree, this covers the J,K Ns in some detail (history, some drawings, paint schemes, photos). There are some deck plans and fittings in this book. For super detailed drawings of the weapons and some other fittings John Lamberts British Naval Weapons of WW2 Volume 1 is worth a look (some of these plans are in the Langtree book too).


The Imperial War Museums image archive online has lots of great photos free to view of the J's & K's. (go to 'collections search')


3) Although the J's and K's were essentially the same (as I understand), there will be variation between ships and the time in the ships history e.g. they completed with tripod masts, the lattice masts were fitted later in ww2 in some surviving ships. The QF 4 inch guns and aft torpedo tubes were also removed and replaced at various times. The flotilla leaders may also have been different - eg. the aft superstructure was often a different shape in the leader to give room for more officers space. I think your model might show the leader configuration (Kelly and Jervis) but I'm not 100% sure without referring to references.


Suppliers
- Deans sell the lattice mast as an individual item in their online shop
- John Haynes fittings - recently closed but may be able to get remaining stock / from other suppliers
- 3d prints from shapeways micromaster (very expensive, no personal experience but look quite good!)


Hope this helps,


James
 
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Capsize

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 08:24:10 am »

Many thanks James, that’s incredibly helpful and I will follow through on your recommendations.


I have decided to go with the refit as the Javelin, matching the early war configuration with the similar mast to Kelly versus the lattice, and the rear torpedo tubes versus the QF gun.


It’s not a huge shopping list, but the missing parts are challenging to find.


I am guessing Deans, Cornwall Model Boats and the Model Dockyard are the three main UK rc boat chandlers?
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canabus

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 09:06:11 am »

Hi Capsize


You may have a look at Battlecrafts website as well.


Canabus
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Capsize

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2020, 04:39:22 pm »

Well, here she is after the refit as HMS Javelin.


A bigger project than I expected - she was in a poor state as you can see from the above pictures, full of silt with many parts missing.


Fully stripped her down and started from a bare hull with the paint stripped off. Decks, bulkheads, motor and battery mounts all rebuilt and finished inside in white. Props redone and new brass struts.


Scratch built funnel, scratch built rear superstructure to match Javelins shorter one, and scratch built rear deck gun and platform, crane davits and paravanes and the mast. New whaler and tenders, tender davits, railings, ladders, windscreen, antenna.. plus a bunch of other detail that was missing.


Finished her in an early war scheme to match photos from resources found online, the best being IWMs online archive.


Some parts sourced from Deans and Cornwall, though some cast resin parts were a bit iffy and ended up scratch building. [size=78%]Crew of 21 to add, currently being painted, plus some coiled ropes.[/size]


Let me know if any obvious detail is missing that’s worth adding in.


Maiden voyage planned for the Portsmouth boating pond, post lockdown.


Hopefully she’s good enough to sail with some of your masterpieces!
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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2020, 04:57:21 pm »

Are you sure you are just getting into model boats? You turned a fair model into a blinder! I was going to say that the horrid funnel frame needed replacing and you went and replaced the whole caboodle.


I don't like critiquing other people's models especially as I don't do nearly enough these days to warrant the right, and also each modeller's hobby is their own personal bit of life, so enjoy it how you want, but I cannot see anything that would need improving.


Beautiful. It goes to show what can be done to restore a tired model.
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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2020, 07:00:18 pm »

You have done a great job on her.
When do you intend to go to Canoe Lake I might be able to pop down and see her.


Bob
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Beagle1831

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2020, 06:55:16 pm »

 :-))  fantastic job!
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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2020, 10:35:28 pm »

Thanks for the kind comments, appreciate them all the more from you seasoned boat builders! Yes it’s a first job on a rc boat kit and I’ve really enjoyed it.


Bob - sounds like you know Canoe Lake. Trip will be after lockdown and a day out with the family, I want to see the landing craft LCT7074 that’s been refurbished and on display at the d-day museum too. Will post when I know when, but looking forward to the maiden voyage.



I have since added the crew, ropes and a few details here and there. Some more pics attached. Also noted from IWM photos the pipe at the rear of the smoke stack should curl around the base of the stack and into the back of the main superstructure, so reworked that too.


She’s now ballasted properly, fully loaded.


I’ve had a nightmare with the motors. The original build had two deans 500 sized motors, with a crude wood wedge shaped mount sitting on the bottom of the hull, and a clamp that screwed down on their tops to hold them in place. As part of the refit, I made a new one of these and reused the motors, though the prop shafts couplings were double jointed and new. When I tested her running, the motors turned in their mount and vibrated badly. A neoprene vibration absorbing layer didn’t improve it.


So out came the motors and the mount - not the easiest extraction as it involved a hammer and some of the decking detail suffered! To replace the original setup, I made a new mount for both motors out of 1mm aluminium sheet, and problem solved. Still some vibration, but the aluminium mount absorbs a lot of it and the motors don’t turn.


On a 7.2v, 2500mha Nimh battery, I’m getting about 25 mins dry running time with a constant throttle at a cruising speed, with both motors kicking out a bit of heat. Does that sound like a reasonable running time for twin motors?







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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2020, 10:47:02 pm »

Hot motors in a boat of this size suggests you have a problem with efficiency or friction in the drive train.

Colin
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Shipmate60

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2020, 09:19:12 am »

Is that running in air.


Bob
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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2020, 10:38:44 am »

Thanks for the kind comments, appreciate them all the more from you seasoned boat builders! Yes it’s a first job on a rc boat kit and I’ve really enjoyed it.


Bob - sounds like you know Canoe Lake. Trip will be after lockdown and a day out with the family, I want to see the landing craft LCT7074 that’s been refurbished and on display at the d-day museum too. Will post when I know when, but looking forward to the maiden voyage.



I have since added the crew, ropes and a few details here and there. Some more pics attached. Also noted from IWM photos the pipe at the rear of the smoke stack should curl around the base of the stack and into the back of the main superstructure, so reworked that too.


She’s now ballasted properly, fully loaded.


I’ve had a nightmare with the motors. The original build had two deans 500 sized motors, with a crude wood wedge shaped mount sitting on the bottom of the hull, and a clamp that screwed down on their tops to hold them in place. As part of the refit, I made a new one of these and reused the motors, though the prop shafts couplings were double jointed and new. When I tested her running, the motors turned in their mount and vibrated badly. A neoprene vibration absorbing layer didn’t improve it.


So out came the motors and the mount - not the easiest extraction as it involved a hammer and some of the decking detail suffered! To replace the original setup, I made a new mount for both motors out of 1mm aluminium sheet, and problem solved. Still some vibration, but the aluminium mount absorbs a lot of it and the motors don’t turn.


On a 7.2v, 2500mha Nimh battery, I’m getting about 25 mins dry running time with a constant throttle at a cruising speed, with both motors kicking out a bit of heat. Does that sound like a reasonable running time for twin motors?
HiLooking good, nice to see a model saved from the scrapheap, if the motors are  are the old kestral motors then they are better on 6 volts props should be 30mm in size, Do not run it dry for to long the outer bearings are water lubricated and you will run them out. Ron
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Akira

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Re: Old HMS Kelly refit as Javelin or Kandahar
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2020, 11:14:45 pm »

I certainly wish that I had been able to produce such a build when i was "just getting into modelling" Beautiful job. I very much like your paint work. It is especially gratifying to see that you saved her from the scrap pile. Bravo Zulu
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