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Author Topic: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?  (Read 2825 times)

Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2020, 03:25:46 pm »

That's how I do it on Velox. I'll try to get a picture and post it to show the set up. The gas tank is removed to fill it. In terms of heating the gas tank I use the oil separator and place it so it just touches the tank so at the end of a run in cool weather the tank is hand warm which is perfect,. In hot weather its warm to touch but not hot.


On balance I prefer the blowlamp burners to the ceramic burners because I can hear them roaring as the model goes past so I know all is working well.


With Canopus the blowlamp and gas tank are permanently joined so I have to remove both as a single unit to refill and use the schraeder? valve built into the tank. With Velox the tank is separate from the burner using a knurled nut and "O" ring as the seal so is removed from the model and I fill it through the outlet valve with a solid connection to the filling tank. When inverted you can hear the gas trickling in. This works well every time and does not waste much gas.


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2020, 03:29:44 pm »

Derek,


If you light from the top of the funnel, you have a ceramic burner, and its always pops at the top as the gas flares back to the burner - quite normal and nothing to worry about.


Cheers


Geoff
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Jerry C

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2020, 01:41:34 am »

I designed the steam plant on “Wear” to come out of the boat with less fuss than to remove the gas tank for refilling. I also did a test of putting a load of gas in the boat, letting it settle then igniting it (from a distance). Result, disappointing pop, in visible flame and zero damage. There are no contained spaces for any over pressures to occur unlike tugs and the like. Did have a conflagration at Poachers pub on the cut near Chirk when lighting the boiler via the funnel and accidentally ignited my very expensive BECC Welsh courtesy flag but when I thought of all the cottages the Welsh Nats had burnt down I just thought of it as payback.
Jerry C. 

Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2020, 02:45:14 pm »

Please see attached pictures of the steam installation in Velox. Engine is double acting oscillating of my own design. Boiler is Cheddar Models Puffin Mk 2.


Note the square structure in the engine compartment - this ducts air from a computer fan into the boiler room. Also the inner silver funnel to protect the plastic outer funnel.


The steam valve (Clevdon Steam) will turn off in 90 degrees  and is operated by the servo arm which just pushes it up for off as I don't need to turn it on again if I need to turn it off!


Note the oil separator which is a metal tin which touches the gas tank to keep it warm.


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2020, 02:47:39 pm »

And the last one - damn PC crashed on me twice!



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morfa

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2020, 03:24:01 pm »

Wow so beautiful yet extricate. Was it a complete scratch build from plans or a hybrid kit?
Such detail - something to aspire to, spending my time now just learning "steam" and all this helps.
Derek/Morfa
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Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2020, 05:15:16 pm »

Thank you . Its all scratch built from plans in "The First Destroyers". The hull is about 4" longer and 1/2" deeper than the plan to allow room and weight and stability for the steam plant but it doesn't notice 1/48 scale.


The superstructure amidships is also 1/2" higher to allow for ventilation slots. There is also an extra hatch positioned so I can see the pressure gauge so some artistic license but the main point was to see if it could be done. Hull is 1/8" balsa planks (which is a new departure for me as its too soft), but covered inside and out with fiberglass and then plated with plastic card down to the waterline. The hull has proved to be quite tough and easily withstands handling. Lots of boiler insulation but when raising steam you can feel the hull gets warm amidships. Weight was a major consideration but in the end I needed about 3 pounds of lead beneath the boiler to bring it down to the correct waterline. Its about  9 years old now. Maximum speed is a fast walk and I get 25 mins sailing before it runs out of water.


Sometimes I got it wrong and nearly set fire to it, hence the modifications with the gas cut off valve!


Cheers


Geoff
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carlfmiller

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2020, 06:15:37 pm »

Geoff this is extraordinary detail. Your gas cut-off valve is spot-on.  A superb job! I wish I could see Velox on the water.  Just a question, I know nothing about these boats but what are the two arc-shaped things on deck near the rail parallel to the stacks? The white tubes nearby might be torpedos. I cannot imagine what it takes to create such complex miniaturization. I have made some little parts but nothing of this scale. Congrats. Just one more photo please-- a view of the boat from standing back so we can see the whole thing? Or maybe on the water?


Nice!


-Carl
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belli

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2020, 09:06:05 pm »

I've attached the drawings for a simple gas regulator which I guess is very similar to the commercial units, if the boiler ran out of steam then the gas would open fully.

I thought that MB's design addressed this where if the water ran out then the gas would shut down.  I haven't figured out his design but I think it would be possible to shut the gas off if it fell below a predetermined level.  It might need some kind of manual override for starting up or something.

Edit: Now that I look at the drawing I have no idea how it works...
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rhavrane

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2020, 09:48:20 pm »

Bonjour belli,
To my opinion, this regulator should possibly not work, I do not see any needle valve allowing the setting of the idle flow. Here two videos which will, I hope, highliht what I presume (and show a possible reason of malfunction) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoVFzwmXbnE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi7mrO_zvOU
And for fun, listen to the regulation when the burner has the exact power of the machine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk74P2k8W2o
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Raphaël
Raphaëlopoulos Steam Lines UnLimited
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morfa

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2020, 02:05:13 am »


From Roy - "Hi there is an old engine driver's solution to easily reading the sight glass on a boiler.
If you place an obviously striped board behind the glass, when there is water present it alters the angle of the stripes and shows up very easily to the human eye."

Roy,
I like the stripped card idea - where the strips vertical or horizontal.
Might try it with my FPV camera approach.
Derek/morfa


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roycv

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2020, 03:58:28 am »

Hi I should have said the stripes are horizuntal, good luck
Roy
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JimG

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #112 on: October 02, 2020, 10:04:42 am »

I don't know if it is still available but you used to get glass tubing for sight glasses with a paint stripe along the length. Water in the glass would magnify the stripe giving a clear difference from the air section.
Jim
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roycv

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #113 on: October 02, 2020, 10:54:44 am »

H Jim that is not what happens!  When the water is present the horizontal stripes will appear at about 45 degrees to the ones that only have air in the sight glass.. Someting to do with the miniscus and or prism effect altering the angle of the light.  So there is an obvious change in what you see when water is present.
Regards
Roy
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ooyah/2

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2020, 11:46:40 am »

Hi Jim is quite correct the sight glass that Jim mentioned was called Selbach tubing and it has a blue stripe moulded into the glass.
It was unavailable for many years but it came back in metric sizes , don't know if it's still available.


George.
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Geoff

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2020, 05:43:56 pm »

Carl,


The "Arc" shaped things are Berthelon collapsible boats as there was very little deck room. The grey round things are rolls of canvass dodgers. There are two single torpedo tubes further aft.


I have some on the water and full pictures somewhere and will try to find them and post them. Thank you for your kind comments which much appreciated.


She is certainly an unusual steam powered model!


On another note I thought about making my own gas cut off valve but wasn't entirely confident I could make it gas tight. On the port side near one of the collapsible boats there is a black open ended tube. This acts as a vent tube to the bottom of the forward compartment - the idea is if there is a tiny gas leak it would suck the gas up (wind and motion) and away. Does no harm!


Cheers


Geoff
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carlfmiller

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2020, 07:52:31 pm »

Geoff --Sorry for a little shift off-topic, %)  but I was fascinated by the collapsible boat, and in fact found a video of one.  It's a great idea to save space, but  wow putting it together in time of an emergency would be daunting. The company seems to still be active, that's great.


https://www.berthon.co.uk/about-berthon/berthon-history/#tab9Tab


Once you told me what it was I can see every detail like the rudder and tiller and floorboards. Thanks!

-Carl

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southsteyne2

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #117 on: October 02, 2020, 11:45:00 pm »

Geoff 

any uncontrolled gas in a boat is bad news so I would advise stick to an approved commercial valve and check with soapy water for bubbles.
Cheers
John.
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southsteyne2

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #118 on: October 02, 2020, 11:48:33 pm »

Hi all the latest site glass I purchased had a red line embedded which magnified as the water rose .
Cheers
John
 
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DBS88

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #119 on: October 08, 2020, 10:35:26 pm »

To continue the conversation I have just fitted this red stripe sight glass as a replacement after carelessly breaking a sight glass on my boiler, so thought I would share with you and let you decide how effective the red stripe is or not?
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morfa

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2020, 11:00:04 pm »

DBS88
That's super cool. What are the dimensions and where did you get it.
It will be perfect for my needs, this and a stopwatch and I am golden.


I have setup my FPV camera to point at it but this will really help.


This has been a great thread. Such great information from a simple question - thanks to all.


Derek
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roycv

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Re: Gas vs water - what happens when one runs out?
« Reply #121 on: October 08, 2020, 11:48:27 pm »

Hi that's fine and a nice photo.  The horizontal stripes option just need to be on a card placed behind the sight glass.  No need to replace the boiler sight glass.

Roy
 
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