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Author Topic: The Law for "Clubs"  (Read 1048 times)

kinmel

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The Law for "Clubs"
« on: January 21, 2021, 11:07:07 am »

This information may be of value to club officials. ..........      https://www.myerssolicitors.co.uk/the-law-of-clubs-they-can-be-tricky/

Having read it, our club's Constitution will have to be rewritten.
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TomHugill

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2021, 11:08:29 am »

Nothing there?
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kinmel

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2021, 11:15:44 am »

Sorry about that  :embarrassed:
Post corrected.
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Bodger

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2021, 10:20:56 pm »

Thank you for the post. An interesting read. Our club will use this to update our constitution. Many Thanks


Andrew.
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Subculture

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 11:02:09 pm »

So if a group of lads decide to meet up in a park for a kick about, that constitutes as a club does it?

Seems to going by description on that link.

kinmel

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 11:21:57 pm »

It becomes an"unincorporated association" if individuals agree to formally club together for any purpose that does not include making a profit.
If you get together on an ad-hoc basis, with no membership and no common funds then you are just a group of lads meeting up in the park as you say. At one point people sailing at New Brighton operated on that basis and they may still do so.

Of course then your social group can't have a name, book a pitch, insure yourselves or open a bank account.

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mudway

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 12:12:46 am »

We are more regulated this end as local councils and state government bodies require a club to be incorporated and carrying at least $A20 million (about 10 million pounds) public liability insurance. There is a model constitution set out in the Act and Annual Returns must be filed. All the gvt. depts. we operate with require the submission of the Insurance Certificate confirming the policy and its level, some require their name to be on that certificate as notice that they are “interested parties”. Come time for a regatta or special event and they all have forms galore to be completed including one notifying the police, fire and ambulance services as well as the local bus and taxi companies of the event. Red tape rules!
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2021, 07:32:06 am »

What happens if the club doesn't have any rules or committee etc?


Just a small group of people who decided one day to call themselves a club and occasionally make a voluntary contribution. Inevitably a hierarchy developed but in no sense is it ever formalised but they do have a bank account which is only accessed it everyone agrees.








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kinmel

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2021, 08:41:23 am »

That document sets out the relevant law in the UK.

It is for each group of people to decide for themselves whether they are affected and to comply if they wish
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2021, 09:04:02 am »

That document sets out the relevant law in the UK.

It is for each group of people to decide for themselves whether they are affected and to comply if they wish
..................but it assumes a constitution, rules & officers etc. There are lots of "clubs" that are a lot less formal.
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kinmel

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2021, 09:21:40 am »

Just because you do not have those things doesn't mean you are not a club.

If your group meets the criteria, it must follow the law and create those things.  Failing to do so can be expensive.
Having money deposited at a bank other than for personal use is commercial banking and you need to have legal status -  be a registered company, or an unincorporated association.
Having a bank account means you formally exist.

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Subculture

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2021, 10:48:29 am »

I think there is much to be said for keeping things simple.

No funds, just have a whip round if 'x' amount of individuals want to do something that involves cost.

No committee, no constitution and take responsibility for your own actions.

Some lines of the hobby require infrastructure meeting places, club houses etc. Model boaters typically just need a body of water, which is usually a public utility.

KitS

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2021, 12:43:31 pm »


Having a bank account means you formally exist.



How about a building society account? One that hasn't transmogrified itself into a bank of course.
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Kit

Subculture

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2021, 02:19:30 pm »

Same thing I would expect.

I was once a member of a model engineering club, and some years back one of the section leaders fiddled several thousand pounds out of the club. He drained the sections account, but left just enough on account to prevent it being closed. In addition he pocketed income from raffles, tea money etc. The latter wasn't audited, so there was no paper trail, only a portion of the money was ever recovered, but it demonstrates that most if not all positions are largely based on trust.

KitS

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2021, 03:50:34 pm »

Not quite what I asked.............


If you have a building socy. account to hold some funds for something that ISN'T personal, does that mean you have to exist legally to hold that account?


If so, why don't they ask about such legality  when you open the account? I ask because I'm in exactly that situation, having opened a BS account to hold funds for restoring a railway vehicle, but there's at most three of us on the project. We're hardly a 'club', but we do hold funds.
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Kit

Steve Dean

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2021, 10:44:14 am »

Dear KitS,Please allow me to give you some input on the question you are asking. As you have put the money in a BS account in your name then this a Personal Account and 2 situations arise from this. 1. If you were to run off with the money then the  only recourse your friends would have, would be to pursue you using the police, a solicitor or a base-ball bat! 2. (and sorry to be so blunt) if something were to happen to you that brought about your death, then the money in the account would be part of your personal assets and would be part of your estate. What then happens to the money would be dependent on your Will. If you don't have a Will then this becomes much more complicated.Your friends would be nearly powerless to recover their money.
I'm going to stick my head well truly over the wall. I am extremely well known in the model boating community as someone who has exhibited at many shows around the country and in recent years I am the Pool Master and Commentator at the International Model Boat Show. I have been the Chairman of several clubs (having lived in different parts of the country) and have been instrumental in writing detailed Constitutions. In my working life (prior to retiring) I was a director of two multinational companies have a large amount of experience in this subject matter.If any Clubs would like some input, then if you care to send me PM then I will give you my phone number.I am very willing to offer guidance. Steve Dean.
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nemesis

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2021, 02:08:46 pm »

Hi, You hold the account but the others hold the book. But, as Steve has said, in death the problems start. nemesis
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TheLongBuild

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2021, 02:53:46 pm »

Can you not just open the account in joint names ?

kinmel

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 03:16:34 pm »

When it all goes wrong, it can be harder proving you are not a club, than it is to actually set up a club now.

You can open a joint personal account for no more than 2 people, who each then have unlimited access to all the funds and full control of it. 

Most banks offer a free Community Bank Account, but you must be a legal entity with a constitution etc.
If anyone wants a copy of our club documents PM me.   Constitution, GDPR compliant membership form, H&S Assessments, written H&S, equality and safeguarding, and financial management policies etc.   

The problem with not having such things is that when something goes wrong you can't just claim to be compliant, you must produce evidence on how you achieved it.   

We were lucky in that one of our members had those responsibilities in a large organisation and set it all up for us.
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Subculture

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2021, 05:51:54 pm »

Seems most of the concerns are centred around money.

TheLongBuild

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2021, 06:20:49 pm »



You can open a joint personal account for no more than 2 people, who each then have unlimited access to all the funds and full control of it. 




I believe it is possible to have a joint personal account with up to 5 people. If Google is correct  8) 8)




Bank accounts that allow multiple joint holders | finder.com

Subculture

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Re: The Law for "Clubs"
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2021, 07:45:26 pm »

Set-up a Paypal account for multiple users. Easy to access, full paper trail, no need to visit branches etc.
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