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Author Topic: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.  (Read 33424 times)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #100 on: January 18, 2021, 12:26:26 pm »

Hi Derek. We had a BICC down the road from us near Chester. British United Callender Cables. My mate across the road worked there.
Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2021, 12:38:17 pm »

I’m used to big ships Diesel engines. Peculiar to my shipping company Blue Funnel were double acting, opposed piston, two stroke engines with six units. Here’s a drawing of one unit. I’ll give you a clue, there are three pistons in each cylinder.





Jerry C.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #102 on: January 20, 2021, 10:51:59 am »

Hi Jerry,
I don't have a clue, the drawing is too complex and small to read but I take your word that it's true.
Sometimes on T.V. there are items on the size of engines in modern day very large ships that would make your eyes water.


I have no experience of modern day diesel engines and it's difficult with such a small drawing to see the  conversion from lineal motion to rotary motion which I think this drawing shows, I would need to see a larger drawing to understand it.


I will stick to small model engines and pumps.


George.


P.S. isn't BICC British Insulated Callender Cables who I think bought over Pirelli Cables
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #103 on: January 20, 2021, 12:25:13 pm »

Jerry......one of many obnoxious Doxford engines........technically advanced, but very difficult to work on to maintain or to resolve a simple fault....


...& yes BICC was British Insulated CC


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

SteamboatPhil

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #104 on: January 20, 2021, 07:33:01 pm »

Small version was pyro......a "xxxxx" to strip and terminate.... :D
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2021, 10:33:46 pm »

Hi Derek. These were B&W built at Harland &Wolf in Belfast. Not Doxfords. Doxfords built opposed piston engines but not double acters. There were continuous fights between B&W and Doxfords over patents. B&W used eccentrics for the exhaust pistons Doxfords had to use a crank. B&W used telescopic rods to carry exhaust cylinder coolant so Doxfords used problematic wobbly pipes.
I sailed on several ships using these “double bangers”. They was a lot of work for the engineers in port, especially the third engineer who looked after the fuel valves and the gas pumps that drove them. The scavenging was by chain driven? Rootes blower with a huge reversing flap for going astern.
There was a lot of talk about scavenge fires and iron fires but I don’t recall any. Same as on the Ton Class sweepers with their Deltics. I remember when shadowing a Russian AGI how it knew the exact speed range they were at risk of exhaust fires from lube oil throwover. We had to alternate from one engine to two to maintain station.
Jerry C.

derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #106 on: January 20, 2021, 11:39:46 pm »

Oh it must have been a complicated system, Burmeisters being built under License to Harland....then later IHI to Sulzer,..the MAN+B&W ...to Kawazaki-MAN

Previous reading suggested the British Patient Courts needed to appoint a Judge with a Professional Engineering + a Legal Qualification to provide impartial judgements as the representations made by various Plaintiffs using their own Private Engineering cases were seen as biased >>:-(  

It is clear that the Danish & German had the everlasting edge over England during that 100 year period

Anyway...back to your machining build......

Why did you need a new 4 jaw chuck?.........did the old one die? & is the replacement a 100 mm sizing with a 84 PCD mounting?

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2021, 09:14:32 am »

It’s an 80mm dia. Independent reversible 4 jaw. 4x 6mm studs and nuts, 65mm PCD. The adjusters are secured by 4 u plugs from the rear. One of lost the ends allowing the adjuster to float and jam. I ordered a replacement over 5 weeks ago which went astray. They’re chasing up on the courier. I’m going to try and make one tomorrow.


Jerry C.

Geoff

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #108 on: January 21, 2021, 11:40:45 am »

Whilst off topic, its seems appropriate - have you seen this - its amazing!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2drej_qeRSA


Cheers


Geoff
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #109 on: January 21, 2021, 01:02:36 pm »

That’s just a wee baby.
Jerry C.

Andy M

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2021, 01:43:10 pm »

Must have been really good for your hearing working beside that for weeks on end. Awesome though.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #111 on: January 22, 2021, 08:30:32 am »

Andy. I wasn’t an engineer, I was a Navigating Officer, on the bridge, right in front of the exhausts (Funnel). The pressure waves ensured hearing damage as did being on the bridge when the Mk 8 4.5 let fly doing RNR training.  I’m deaf. The big engines didn’t make much noise, more like heavy breathing. The fans, turbochargers, pumps and generators made a phenomenal racket. My audiologist told me I had “engineers Ear”. Merchant Navy and Royal Navy personnel can’t claim industrial injuries benefit. Thanks for our service my 'bottom'.


Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2021, 07:41:40 am »

Back to the build. A new friend who is Skipper of the steam paddle boat on lake Burley-Griffin came over with some materials for me. One pice was a 4’ length of stainless steel plate off the bottom of a cooker or something. It’s metric an 2 1/2 thou thinner than 1/16”. I made the crosshead slides from this. It took me half a day just to mark it out and centre punch every hole. I need new specs as even with an illuminated magnifying glass I had great difficulty lining up the tip of my smallest centre drill with the marks. A trip into Fyshwick to but a 3/16” slot cutting tool (good quality and expensive) lead me by accident to a treasure trove store for me. They actually have a stock of materials, brass, s/s, bar, rod and hexagonal bar. I asked if they had any stub drills. He dug out a Dorman imperial set which looked a bit outside my price range. When I asked how much.... $375 I nearly fell over. He asked if I was a member of the local model engineering club cos if I was he could let me have them for $210. I still had to pass. I’ve got Number Drills you can buy one at a time if you need them he said. There are two number drills specified on the plans but I’d already drilled them with a drill from a batch of cheap decimal metric drills which was near enough to make no difference. It’s really annoying as in UK I bought a full set of Number and Letter drills for £25 from Screwfix. They were just lying on the counter. The girl that served me said nobody had any idea what they were!
Got to go on a bicycle ride with my daughter and don’t way to lose this so I’ll post it and get back to it later. TTFN.


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2021, 11:22:39 am »

Anyway, the first one went well with no incident. I cut the blanks with a hacksaw and sanded them to size in the belt sander. Blued them up with a magic marker and marked the four holes followed by the centre and ends of the slot. Shipped the piece in the milling vice on thin parallels.  Centre drilled the four holes and a line down the centre of the slot. Drilled the securing holes and put. 90° counter sink in the holes at one end. Drilled out the slot with one size down from 3/16” then shipped my new slot cutter and cut out the slot. Reversed the piece in the vice and counter sunk the the two holes in the other end. Removed the piece, demurred and filed each end of the slot square. Perfik. The second piece didn’t go so well. First mistake was countersinking the third hole on the wrong side before I cut out the slot. Caught myself and no worries as the screws locate on the countersink so did the other side. Phew. But the slot cutting didn’t go so well. Half way up the slot deviated. Something moved. Never did find out what. Any way it was only a bit and won’t cause a problem in use. I’ll make another later because I can see it.
Using plate 2 1/2 thou undersized does have an issue because top and bottom fixings are on opposite sides so the plate will not be parallel to the axis of the piston rod. I planned to make four shims from an aluminium cake can but when I measured the thickness it was 3 thou. I didn’t think that was too bad but then wondered if I used a Diet Coke can if it would be thinner. Measured one and bigger me it’s 2/ 1/2 thou!!  I made the shins with a pair of scissors and placed them under the plates and drilled through the holes into a block of wood. Fitted the first one and everything spot on. The holes I’d drilled in the p/b support bracket we’re not in the correct place so I machine some brass 7BA studs indeed plugged the holes with a bit of Loctite to glue them in. Pet the plate on secured at the top and drilled the new holes in the support bracket and tapped them 7 BA. Fitted the two c/s screws and shins. The plate was way out. Not parallel to the axis of the piston rod. The p/b bracket must have bent when I machined it. Measurements showed I needed to remove 15 thou where the bottom screws go. 5 minutes with the file and it came out right. Me and p/b don’t get on! 
As I’ve still not received my replacement 4 jaw chuck I decided to make a mandrel with a 5 BA thread on 1/4” of 1/4” mild steel round bar. Made the mandrel in the 3 jaw chuck and left it there and screwed the piston rod end of the crossheads on the mandrel and rounded off the top ends of the crossheads. Removed the crossheads and replace on the mandrel and turned the sliding face to thickness leaving a 3/16” boss which located in the slot in the slides.
Fitted one conrod  onto crosshead and crankshaft. Big end of conrod fouls bedplate which was a puzzle as I’d Maxine’s it to the correct size. Out with the Dremel and relieved the sides. Will do it properly later.   Rotated crank shaft and everything works but there are two tight spots. Removed bottled cap, marked the bearing surfaces with magic marker, refitted end cap, spun it up on a drill for a few seconds before removing end cap again and looking at the Wear pattern. It seems when I machined the sides of the big ends rather then leave a burr it left a slight bulge. Rant the 5/16” reamer through and cleared it. Still a very slight tight spot so ran it in for a bit either the drill. Disaster!  I didn’t put the locknut on the crosshead bolt and it unscrewed itself, resulting in a bent threaded end of the piston rod and a ski jump shaped slide. Saved it, straightened the thread, it didn’t break, straightened the slide and reassembled, with locknut this time. It spins over nicely with no tight spots or play. Will do the other side shortly.








Two things I’ve noticed 1) on the drawing for the slides the dimensions are correct but but when you offer up the part to the drawing the drawing is about 1/4” too long and 2) the brass washer on the crosshead fouls the bracket at the bottom of the stroke. I’ll put them on the mandrel and reduce them to clear. They don’t look the part anyway and spoil the model especially the Cheesehead screws.
3) I’ve spent more time looking for nuts I’ve dropped than in actually making things. The position they are eventually found in defies Physics! Why the hell do Stuarts supply the exact amount required?!! I’m still live in hope that I’ll find that tiny grubscrew that goes in the eccentric.
It was 48°C in the shed today and after that bike ride I’m shattered.
Night all.


Jerry C.

SailorGreg

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #114 on: January 25, 2021, 12:38:19 pm »

Sounds like you've had your fair share of "learning opportunities" there Jerry.  Nothing a bit of ingenuity and a few choice words of Welsh couldn't sort out though.  Coming along very nicely, and it's encouraging to those following that you deal with the little setbacks as a matter of course, not as some great drama.  Well done.

Always a pleasure to read your posts.

Greg

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2021, 10:40:48 am »

Thanks Greg. I’ve never worked with phosphor bronze. It appears to have the power to morph. Has similar properties to toffee! It doesn’t cut but just seems to slither round the corner, waiting for me when I remove the piece. I’m looking forward to getting my Xmas present of X Y Z DRO kit next month. Having z and y on 40thou/rev wheels and z on 50 thou/rev wheels has resulted in more than one opportunity to work round. I work in a corrugated iron double garage with one small window.  Can’t have the side door open for ventilation in case the puppy gets out. If it’s not heat then it’s flies or spiders. Have you ever watched Joe Pie on YouTube?  Nothing bad happens, everything always ends up perfik. He does have the best of everything though. Days off this week as it’s a national holiday for Australia Day.


Jerry C.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2021, 12:36:41 pm »

(. 1) on the drawing for the slides the dimensions are correct but but when you offer up the part to the drawing the drawing is about 1/4” too long )





Jerry
Didn't your teacher at school tell you never to lift dimensions from a drawing nor to offer a part to the drawing to check for length E.C.T. ??


It's one of the first rules that gets drummed into you as an apprentice fitter or machinist. ??


George.


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steamboatmodel

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2021, 03:48:11 pm »

We were always told "Do not scale from drawing", yet one of the places I worked at we made instrument panels on a CNC mill, one of the things we used to do was make test panels out of clear plex, so you could drop it on the drawing and see if everything matched.
Gerald.
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2021, 07:59:16 pm »

I love the expression which was pounded into me from my Dad.....


"Check from actual Job"


And if you have ever built anything from LBSC's drawings you will understand  {-) {-) {-) {-)
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2021, 08:25:11 pm »

Know what you mean Phil,
Try making his small Weir type vertical boiler feed pump, tried to about 7 years ago, still have the parts in a box somewhere., LBSC bless him !!!!
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #120 on: January 26, 2021, 10:55:16 pm »

George, I didn’t lift from the drawing I used the numbered dimensions as stated on the plan. I then noticed that it didn’t fit the drawing. My drawings which I paid a great deal of money for are dated 1972 and 1955 amendments 1970. I know not to measure from the plan because paper swells and shrinks so I used stated dimensions. I always offer a part up to the plans to see if I’ve made a Horlicks  of anything. But 1/4” out, honestly? That’s a mistake and should have been corrected long ago!


Jerry C.


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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2021, 11:46:33 am »

Hi Jerry,


I see what you mean,
The drawing at 1/1 the slide measures 2.375 " and when you add up the dimensions on the drawing you get 1.187"----3/16" shorter


It would appear that these drawings have been printed and printed so many times that inaccurate dimensions have never been corrected.


The price of the drawings as a separate item is very expensive for what you get, did the drawings come with the castings or did you have to buy it separately ?


It's a pity that you didn't say at the start of your thoughts on this engine as I could have posted the drawings to you the same as I did for the Scotch return flue boiler that I gave you when you still lived in Wales and all F.O.C. which would have saved you a few  $ dollars.


Never mind you are making a good job of the engine and  you will overcome some of the mistakes on the drawings.


George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2021, 12:34:50 pm »

Hi George, £321 ex vat for drawings I sheet for basic engine, additional drawing for reversing gear and mods. Plus castings. No other materials supplied. Oil cups and drain cocks extra.


Piston rings and graphited  yarn missing.


Jerry C. 

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2021, 11:05:40 pm »

Oh! And £75 postage TNT to Oz.


Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2021, 11:13:39 pm »

Jerry,
Them's crazy prices, it's a wonder that people still by from them and the items that used to be included in casting sets no longer are included.


I don't know when the last time I bought from them, think it was when they were in the Channel Islands, people are still complaining about the quality of the castings as there is not enough meat on them to get to the correct size and like you I have experienced chilled spots in castings but can't send them back as I usually buy on e-bay.


I have noticed many of these complaints on a few of the Engineering forums but still Stuart does nothing about it.
Soldier on my friend and think of another engine for your next project, not Stuart Turner.!!!!!


George.
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