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Author Topic: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.  (Read 4236 times)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2021, 11:20:01 am »

Missed one and doubled another


 


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2021, 10:40:16 am »

Came to a short halt waiting for materials. Some 1/4Ē and 3/16Ē bright steel round bar stock ordered from Western Australia came in a day and a half which is brilliant for here. I made a start on the 5 columns. They were quite easy after the first one as I rigged the lathe with a couple of stops and took notes and marked the wheels so everything was just a repeat.





Now the engine is starting to look like one. Put some top coat on the bed plate and the lagging.
Today we went to Canberra Zoo with the children and grand kids. A lovely afternoon off. But on return I adjourned to the shed and made up and silver soldered the inlet and exhaust manifolds as yesterday after just under a month my parcel arrived from Blackgates Engineering including two lengths  of copper pipe. I made two new rollers for my home made pipe bender for 3/16Ē o/d pipe and set to. Here they are pickling in citric acid solution. The  1/4Ē exhaust pipe fouls the lagging so Iíll have to make a pair of 1/16Ē thick stand off flanges which means the supplied screws will be a bit short methinks.


u


Iíll make those tomorrow. Still waiting for new 4 jaw chuck then I can crack on.


Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2021, 07:38:49 pm »

Really starting to come together now, nice work.  :-))
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2021, 07:35:41 am »

I spent most of today tidying up the eccentric sheaves, filing away tool marks, removing metal to clear nut and bolt heads so I can get a ring spanner on them and making sure top parts are correctly in line for the reversing gear. Thatís as far as I can go without my 4 jaw chuck.





Next I moved on to the inlet and exhaust pipes. Removed from acid bath, rinsed and then removed metal from the exhaust flanges in way of the bolt holes to allow the flanges to clear the lagging screws. Will have to make the dome heads into cheeseheads on the exhaust side and fit risers to clear lagging. Tidied up the flanges where the 1/4Ē copper pipes enter on the lathe( managed to get the swept flange in the 3jaw chuck running true and live centre in the other end and trimmed them down concentric. A bit of work with
 OO wire wool and thatís the exhaust side sorted. Cleaned up the steam inlet side and bolted it to the valve chests.








Thatís about as far as I can go atm so tomorrow Iíll remove the valve chest covers and paint the circles. Why donít they put the Stuart S in them in this engine??


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2021, 09:02:20 am »

Ok the plan to put risers to clear the lagging fell at the first hurdle. Big nut on top of column fouls. Plan B, out with Dremel and relieve some lagging. Repaint  and fit either newly modified cheese head screws. Made up 4 gaskets one under and one over lagging rather than making a hash of cutting the holes. Iím happy the way it turned out. 40įC in the shed. Spray paint dried on the way to the piece! 













Jerry C.

Mark T

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2021, 04:25:40 pm »

Jerry that's really looking nice mate - it looks like a proper engine now.  Be better when your chuck eventually arrives  ok2

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2021, 04:41:49 pm »

Hi Jerry
I hit the same problem so to overcome this I machined a bit off of the cylinder block and bolted the exhaust flanges over the Ali shield.
There was no leakage as there is little pressure on the exhaust pipe.


George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2021, 10:48:59 pm »

Thanks George and Mark. The plans as regards to inlet and exhaust arrangements are confusing. It would help generally if each drawing had a title. I tried marking every drawing in the early planning stage with difficulty. Looking at web pics of this build I see so many different takes on the piping, some quite awful. My take is that the small diameter copper pipe should be on the steam inlet side via a center joint arrangement and the flat flanges and the larger 1/4Ē copper pipe should be on the exhaust side using the cast parts as the steamís volume has expanded after the stroke and needs a larger way out. Am I correct?
Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2021, 12:12:48 pm »

Hi
Jerry, you are correct, steam inlet pipe is the smallest exhaust is the larger.


Why have you made the steam pipe split with a vertical drop, how are you or ( somebody who buys the engine ) going too fit an on line lubricator.


In all of the engines that I have made the steam inlet is as per pic for ease of fitting a lubricator


George.
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JimG

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2021, 07:50:10 pm »

Hi
Jerry, you are correct, steam inlet pipe is the smallest exhaust is the larger.


Why have you made the steam pipe split with a vertical drop, how are you or ( somebody who buys the engine ) going too fit an on line lubricator.


In all of the engines that I have made the steam inlet is as per pic for ease of fitting a lubricator


George.
Should be easy enough to loosen the connections and rotate through 90 degrees so it is horizontal.
Jim
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2021, 08:14:52 pm »

Yes Jim I agree with you but it's only going to take up more room in the hull.


How's the weather in Sunny Dundee, it's absolutely perishing here in Kirkie ( -6 ) at present.


George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2021, 08:46:35 am »

Hi George, Iím just trying to build as Stuartís intended. The bent 3/16Ē pipe on the plan makes no sense unless there are two of them. This pb casting





is the only one for 3/16Ē dia pipe. I already had the T piece so just made some olives for it. Itís just hanging loose atm but can be fixed at 90į or vertical.
As to an oiler, itís position is more dependent on the plant layout. It can be anywhere along the steam supply from boiler.
Will these engines be happy on superheated steam as Iíve a superheater sitting idle in my boiler?
Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2021, 08:53:20 am »

This is one of the few photos Iíve found using this method and I think it looks a bit ugly.





Jerry C.

JimG

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2021, 12:52:37 pm »

Yes Jim I agree with you but it's only going to take up more room in the hull.


How's the weather in Sunny Dundee, it's absolutely perishing here in Kirkie ( -6 ) at present.


George.
A bit warmer here, some negative temperatures overnight but generally positive up to about 4/6 degrees mid day. We got a bit of snow which luckily never lasted.
Jim
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2021, 03:31:18 pm »

Hi Jerry,
I agree with you that the pic of the steam pipe is ugly.


I don't know why I always have made my steam connections Horizontal and the Lubricator screwed into the the end of the steam pipe.
Here are 2 pics showing the fitting that I make to take the lubricator and the steam line as I always have done will and continue to do so as I like this way.


George..
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2021, 11:34:01 pm »

Thanks again George, much appreciated. Couple more questions for anyone. Washers. It doesnít feel right to me not to have them, not the way my dad taught me. Views? And two, locknuts. Only four provided, two for crosshead, two for valve rods. What about piston rods to cross heads. Piston rods loctited to pistons, adjustment at cross heads via two tommy holes in top of pistons  but no locknuts to fix adjustment. Can the pistons rotate in use?


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #91 on: January 15, 2021, 10:28:29 am »




So good to work with brass again. This is one of the valve rod heads. Shipped a length of 3/8Ē hex bar in the chuck. Did some sums to work out the max diameter of the part and turned the bar down to this for two lengths plus width of parting tool. Turned the end down to 1/4Ē diameter for 50 thou depth, drilled tapping hole for 5BA then tapped the 5 BA hole.  Parted off as a pair and replaced in the chuck and repeated for the other end. Set up the milling attachment and put the piece in the vice using the v in the jaws. Then milled one side down to size for 1/4Ē. Turned the piece round 180į on parallels and milled the other side. Removed the cutter and replaced with small centre drill. Touched off with the centre drill on the top, pulled the piece clear and raised the vertical slide half the diameter of the centre drill then again using the wheel graduations for 3/8Ē. Centre drilled for the 7BA bolt then drilled right through with a tapping drill (2mm) t[size=78%]hen halfway through with 2.65mm clearance drill. Finally tapped the hole 7BA. Removed the piece and turned through 90į. Put a 1/8Ē cutter in the chuck and plunged through at the top of the slot. Then slowly raised the vertical slide cutting the lot through the top piece and continued through thus cutting the slot for the second piece. Turned the piece 90į and drilled and tapped the hole in the second piece. Finally milled the remaining to sides flat. Removed from vice and cut the whole piece in half. Screwed a 7BA bolt into each piece. Drilled a 2.65mm hole in the table of my belt sander, placed the end of the bolts in turn in this hole and sanded the rounded ends. De burred everything and a bit of rubbing on 600 wet or dry on glass plate and theyíre done.   [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Thatís as far as I can go until my replacement 4 jaw chuck arrives. Iíve sent the supplier a message saying itís 31 days since they sent it but still no sign of it. Australian Post isnít anything to write home about but itís not that bad! Iím also waiting for a slitting saw and arbor to come then I can finish the con-rods. [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Jerry C. [/size]

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #92 on: January 15, 2021, 05:07:24 pm »

Thanks again George, much appreciated. Couple more questions for anyone. Washers. It doesnít feel right to me not to have them, not the way my dad taught me. Views? And two, locknuts. Only four provided, two for crosshead, two for valve rods. What about piston rods to cross heads. Piston rods loctited to pistons, adjustment at cross heads via two tommy holes in top of pistons  but no locknuts to fix adjustment. Can the pistons rotate in use?


Jerry C.


Jerry,
Unfortunately I Cant help with the amount of screws and washers supplied with the kit as I bought mine on E-bay purely as a set of castings so I made up from my stock material all that was required.
Regarding nuts and washers t I don't recall ever having used washers or double nutted any part, the only washers that I recall was the brass washers shown on the back side of the cross head slide.


The piston rods by memory were 5/32" and were reduced to length as per the drawing with both ends threaded 5B.A..
I screwed the rod into the piston which I made + .010" > .020"  over size with a dab of Loctite 243, made a collet from a piece of 1/4" dia brass, marked it with a punch in the centre line of   No 2 jaw which is my preferred true running jaw, removed it from the chuck and that leaves you with a true running collet and then slit it up the length of it remembering when putting back into the chuck with the piston rod and the piston , turned it down to fit the bore.
I had no lock nut on the piston rod going into the Cross head as there was a turned end to stop when screwing into the Cross head.


I very rarely use lock nuts but I do use a dab of Loctite 243 thread lock, it allows the joint to be broken if required.


You can see in the background the tool that I made to adjust the height of the piston.


One thing I must say that Stuarts drawing of the Launch Engine is very poor.
For the cost that is charged the drawing could have a Gen Arrangement with the parts itemised , The drawing that I have was printed in the dark ages and it was quite hard to follow, keep going you will get there in the end.


Sorry that I can't help very much


George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2021, 12:49:44 am »

 Thanks George. The nut on the crosshead serves as a locknut as the bolt through the little end is threaded into it and the nut locks is. This fixes the bolt preventing it from squeezing the little end arms jamming the crosshead. At Grammar school I was offered a choice of two from woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing. I wanted all three (said Iíd swap one for Latin), they wouldnít have it. One subject was drawing nuts. They always had a 45į chamfer top and bottom. Stuartís nuts only have one on top so when tightening they mark whatís below. A plain washer would prevent that.  The four locknuts are thinner and flat top and bottom. I may get some washers later but theyíll do for this one.
I found something I could get on with while waiting. I turned some 1/4Ē SS rod down to 3/16Ē and made one valve rod. It fitted nicely but the valve block needed some metal removed from the sealing face as it was a little too deep. Now there is a little float so steam pressure will seat it to the port face. I think the gaskets on the valve chests are a fraction too thin.
Itís a combined birthday party for the two grand children today. One was born on Boxing Day so they now have an ďofficialĒ birthday like the Queen. Anyhow itís a day off for me.



Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2021, 03:22:47 pm »

Hi Jerry,
Most of the Model Engineering suppliers supply nuts with only one side chamfered but curiously they supply thin lock nuts chamfered Both sides.
I no longer buy nuts and bolts from Stuart Turner as they have become quite expensive. for nuts bolts and washers I buy from EKP supplies who make them on site.
www.ekpsupplies.com ) so you could stock up from them. mail them and they will send a Cat. ( sales@ekpsupplies.com ). phone 01598 710892


The buckle in the valve should always be floating and as you have said steam pressure holds it to the face.


Have a good day at the party.


George.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #95 on: January 17, 2021, 03:43:32 pm »

Hi Jerry, Have a look at this , (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhlJp1VZMB8   ) not a lock nut to be seen and most large Hex nuts with flat bottoms, even the Con
 bearing bolts have no lock nuts and are all flat bottomed.


worth a look.


George.
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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2021, 11:16:55 pm »

Jerry,
Here is another link to a very large steam engine. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lW0PJu8wUg&t=128s. ) it was made for rolling steel plate and Iron rails.
Not the lack of lock nuts on the piston rod bearings and no washers, also large Hex nuts chamfered on the top only.


George.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2021, 04:20:41 am »

Jerry......50+ years ago I commenced my apprenticeship in a non ferrous metal works [a division of the British BICC]


Melting, casting, drawing of copper & brass tubes [big stuff...up to 8" diameter] ....then on to wire production


Absoutely common place in workshops were shadow boards with..'flogging spanners' [one piece forged ring hexagon with a forged handle with the flogging pad as a part of the forged process]......all neatly and sequently mounted by size


The weight of a 3" AF flogging spanner was maybe 25 lbs........the Fitter would engage the flat faced nut over the machined high tensile washer, , the Foreman would mark the nut & the pad......... the Fitters Mate would swing a 15lb or 28lb spanner until the Foreman agreed, an induced torque had been created or attained by tightening the nut so stretching the thread


The proof of the Pudding was when an Inspector checked the height of each large bolt that confirmed the tension [height] growth achieved


Always quite a Ceremony when the first revolutions were made  :-))  during  or after any major refit


The Davey/John Brown steel mill drive in the video clearly shows machined flat washers under the heads of Mill Stand drive retaining bolts


Calibrated/adjustable torque wrenches were not introduced for every day use in the steel industry until the mid 30's?......however hydraulic tensioning devices were commonplace in the mill industry in the early 20's.........


So the purpose of the high tensile machined flat washer was to ensure any galling between surfaces did not include the entablature of the machine ...ie., the Nut & the Washer were of lesser cost to replace than rectification to the machine spot facing on the bolt hole


Same applies to any machined model component...the use of a flat washer can protect machined surfaces from damage...keep like for like...a brass washer over a bronze tapping, a steel washer over a steel tapping


Then must agree with George here, no real need for a locknut.....just achieve your estimated level of applied torque....a pump spray of IPA, then a drop of Loctite 243

Derek
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2021, 06:58:38 am »

Thatís what I was taught. Forgot the word galling though. On Sulzer Cylinder heads they put the nut on by hand then with an hydraulic jack stretch the stud to a set amount then tighten the nut by hand then lower and remove jack. They donít do them one at a time but use however many jacks there are studs all combined together. On B&W engines they use larger flogging spanner and ten Chinese Motormen on a swinging battering ram and a song. Noise goes on all night!  For other types big spanner and long steel tube, Chief Engineer conducting, 2nd., 3rd., 4th and two juniors on the pipe following Chiefs directions until 2nd engineer farts and thatís one done.
Stuart specify and supply 4 locknuts. 2 5BA for the cross head to little ends. The bolt is threaded into one side of the Conrod  (jaws)?   If itís tightened in any way the soft pb jaws bend(easily) and jam everything up. So to avoid this problem bolt done up finger tight ( no distortion) then the locknut screwed on and locked against the pb outer face. If no locknut the bolts would inevitably fall out.
The other two locknuts are 7BA and do a similar job on the valve rod head.
All 4 are flat on both sides and thinner than the standard nuts as supplied




  Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2021, 11:47:11 am »

Hi Guys,
Get a grip, we are not interested n how many Chinamen are on the spanner nor the 2nd engineers flatulence, were talking about model engineers nuts and bolts of 2BA & 7BA size
Jerry I dug out the drawing that I built the Launch engine from and it's dated 1972 and in poor condition, it shows a cross section of the completed engine and the Con-Rod  eye has only one nut on the pivot pin going thro' the cross head so I would have put a spot of 243 on it, this is a plain shanked bolt so the thread length should stop any pressure on the yoke to cause it to bind as all that is required is to nip the nut up until it hits the thread of the bolt and as said a spot of 243, it will never move or undo.


If I can give you tip on the valve buckle and rod.
To make it easier to adjust the valve I don't screw the rod but make it plain and put a small hex socket grub in the buckle which allows you to adjust the valve between the top and bottom  ports without having to dismantle the yoke at the quadrant end to adjust the position of the valve.


As we are discussing BA nuts the one shown in the pic is one that I would assign to the round bucket on the floor.


The 2- pcs are from a D10 build but the same principle.


Derek
As I have never been involved in the process that you describe I just don't have a clue as to what you are talking about, sorry mate.


George


   
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