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Author Topic: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.  (Read 33416 times)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #225 on: October 21, 2021, 11:52:25 am »

I’m pretty sure my dad was either an apprentice with Stuart Turners or he did work for them later, probably on carburettors as he was a carburration engineer working for Zenith Solex And Stromberg in fact he designed the Stromberg CD range. It’s secret was his invention. He reckoned Stuart Turner were rubbish.


Jerry C. 

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #226 on: October 21, 2021, 01:56:52 pm »

Another lovely piece of work Jerry, just one thing, tell me the nasty posidrive  screws are just a temporary fixing... %)
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #227 on: October 21, 2021, 11:36:21 pm »

Of course Phil. That’s for clamping in the vice. Next year I will source some exotic timber for a display base. It’s going to be a fair bit larger than previous. Boiler, condenser, feed water tank and two pumps.
Now getting sorted for our return to UK.


Jerry C.

derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #228 on: October 21, 2021, 11:38:40 pm »

Happy return flights Jerry.......enjoy the return to Narrow Boating in the UK Winter  %) ........ Derek
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Derek Warner

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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #229 on: October 22, 2021, 04:35:33 am »

Thanks Derek, not looking forward to the flight but can’t wait to get back aboard. First job, clear the spiders webs which have virtually blocked our cctv cameras. I hope it’s lots of little spiders and not one big "xxxxx"!  One camera down below knocked out of alignment but hope it’s just a picture frame falling off the bulkhead when the blue tack failed. Over the last few months we’ve watched a young tree growing out of the after button fender. A phone call and the guys in the marina felled it. First job is to engage a safety survey so we can re license the boat then oil, filters and domestic and engine antifreeze. Get a new starter battery for the generator. Check fuel tank for diesel bug and were good to go. Batteries have been looked after by solar and Victron charger and monitor which we have a camera on. The only downside is it’s winter again but we’ve got central heating a calorifier and a multifuel stove so we won’t be cold. On the canals we’re pretty well isolated from Covid people.
I hope the next time I take my daughter to the Southern Cross Hospital for her PTSD treatment we can meet for lunch in Wollongong. But that will be after next Novemer2022 if we haven’t had a first contact with aliens. Covid should hold them back!
Stay safe matey
Rgds


Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #230 on: October 22, 2021, 10:52:23 am »

Wasn't criticising the "old school" Derek, as an apprentice, sixty years ago, was under the wing of three old f**ts in the toolroom - - - Thankfully.


  Regards   Ian.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #231 on: October 22, 2021, 11:11:11 am »

Ian.....understood......


I was just a few years behind you at a BICC Subsidiary, but in a different Land and at a different College   O0  ...


One particular extremely knowledgable & talented Scottish Toolmaker taught me many a trick  :-X


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #232 on: October 22, 2021, 11:31:55 am »

I used to live in the next village to BICC Helsby. My friend across the road worked there.


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #233 on: October 26, 2021, 08:58:29 am »

I set the eccentrics to 90°advanced and wicked super glue in from the ends and through the grub screw holes then screwed in the grub screws, then screwed in the grub screws. When all set put the inverted engine in the miii and drilled and tapped M2.5 through the eccentrics and into he crankshaft. Then secured them for good with Allen head grub screws. They ain’t going to slip or unscrew ever unless I say so. [size=78%]I repeated the process with the flywheel. [/size]

I set the valve timing and completed the final assembly of the engine. I powered the engine in the vice with an electric drill for two hours in a head and astern until it loosened up and everything running cool, then, [/size][size=78%]I rigged up a compressed air supply, oiled everything and away she went. As long as the H/P piston is past TDC she’ll start as soon as air applied. [/size]
[/size]


















That’s the engine finished. Next in the agenda is to design a duplex pump, one side small bore for the feed water pump,the other side large bore for the condenser air pump, both sharing a common stroke and driven via a scotch crank drive. So I’ll be at the drawing board for a few days.


I’ll remove the boiler from my SL Canberra and build a steam plant, but first I need some exotic tropical wood for the base.


Jerry C.

rhavrane

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #234 on: October 26, 2021, 05:11:29 pm »

Bonjour Jerry,
Amazing job, bravo !
As steam passionate, collector and Stuart lover, if you are worried that your machine is cluttering your shelf, i'm ready to get rid of it  ok2 
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Raphaël
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #235 on: October 28, 2021, 11:03:10 am »

I’ve made a start on the pumps. I’m a bit short on materials so I made the scotch crank wobbly bit out of the ends of the crankshaft used to locate the crankshaft when machining. I used the empty bit and one hole. I’m making it up as I go. Fag packet sketch wise.





The large piston is 3/8” diameter and was made out of a large metric threaded bolt and the small piston is 3/16” diameter and made out of a tent peg. Smaller piston attached to wobbly bit with 2BA threads and large piston is 1/4x 40 ME threads.


The drive peg is 0.3000” diameter 1/4” eccentric giving a 1/2” stroke. Attached to the crankshaft with M2.5 Allen head grub screw threaded into the shaft.








Tomorrow I’ll make the cylinders.


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #236 on: October 29, 2021, 09:35:06 am »

Today I made the cylinders.





Tomorrow I’ll start on the supports and valves.


Jerry C.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #237 on: October 31, 2021, 07:44:18 am »

Yesterday and today I worked on valves and support blocks. I milled the blocks out of 1” diameter brass round bar.





The sticky out bits are location pegs to fit into the future base. Each block will be bolted to the base with 4, 5BA studs and nuts.


Next move was to drill and tap the blocks to receive the cylinders and valves. The 3/16” bore cylinder is tapped 1/4” x 40 and the 3/8” bore cylinder will be silver soldered into its block as I have no suitable taps. The bore will be fitted with a couple of 0 rings whilst the 3/16” cylinder will have an 0 ring in a gland.





I made two halves of the inlet valves, all 1/4”x 40 tpi. I don’t know whether to use Viton balls or s/s ball bearings.  Haven’t got either so a trip to a bicycle shop is in the offing. Also ran out of hex bar so will get some tomorrow.





 


[u


rl=https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/fP3FS]


That’s all for now.


Jerry C.









KNO3

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #238 on: October 31, 2021, 02:26:52 pm »

In my experience, Viton balls allow much better sealing than metal ones.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #239 on: November 01, 2021, 06:14:22 am »

Just sent a PM Jerry......for your assistance please  :-)) .......Derek
-------------


Viton balls [used in traditional check valves] are great if the machining seat faces & geometry are absolutely 1st Class.....


If not, the hammering of the pump pulsation [to 1000 cycles/minute] will chew them to pieces in 5 minutes
The pump in bypass & non functional within 30 seconds
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #240 on: November 01, 2021, 08:43:01 am »

I went over the border to Fyshwick this morning for some 5/16” brass hex bar, 1/8” steel rod and 4 chromed ball bearings. No hex bar  so got round instead. No problem. I got a production line going and finished all the parts for the pumps. I seated the balls in their valve bodies by whacking a couple of times each with a brass rod and hammer. When tested they’re tight as a drum with no leakage and no flow restriction in the delivery side. They’re all having an overnight soak in meths ready for final assembly tomorrow.
After tomorrow, that’s it, for the next year as we fly home to the UK on the 11th November. I’ll brink back to Oz some exotic wood for the display  base and some scale dolls house checker plate. We will, all being well, return to Queanbeyan November 1st 2022.





Jerry C.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #241 on: November 02, 2021, 06:28:57 pm »




Viton balls [used in traditional check valves] are great if the machining seat faces & geometry are absolutely 1st Class.....


If not, the hammering of the pump pulsation [to 1000 cycles/minute] will chew them to pieces in 5 minutes
The pump in bypass & non functional within 30 seconds


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Nitrile balls are good for temps up to 100C in Saturated steam and are mainly used in boiler feed pumps with cold water.


Viton balls are good for temps up to 200C in superheated steam and are used for mainly safety valves with the Loco builders


Neither of these balls need absolutely great machining for the valves to seat but do need to be machined on the same setting as the thro' hole and the seating only needs to be 1/16"  deep at 60 deg and they don't need to be bashed two or three times with a brass punch and a hammer. to get them to seat.


They are inclined some times to stick when a boiler or plant has been laid up for some time  and only need to have some clean water pumped thro' with a syringe


Having used these type of balls in several steam plants over the years and have never experienced any to be non functional in 5mins or 3 secs
Both types of balls are used extensively here in the U.K. with Loco builders and Steam boat enthusiasts.


So I ask Derek where do you get this info ? bearing in mind we are talking about Model engineering. and I would be surprised if any model engines exceed more than 500 r.p.m while in-the water.
George.
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rhavrane

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #242 on: November 02, 2021, 07:29:52 pm »

Bonjour George,
I fully agree with you regarding the reliability of these balls, also using them in several of my water pumps.
Just a detail, my speed steam machines exceed 2 000 RPM with two blades propellers in the water, but I have no pump coupled to  ok2
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #243 on: November 02, 2021, 07:49:44 pm »

Bonjour George,
I fully agree with you regarding the reliability of these balls, also using them in several of my water pumps.
Just a detail, my speed steam machines exceed 2 000 RPM with two blades propellers in the water, but I have no pump coupled to  ok2


Bonsoir Raphael,


Thanks for replying, I know that there are models that have very high revs in the water, my own Flashsteam boat had 16.000 on the bench and about 12,000 rpm in the water but along with your type of boat and I think that the straight runners had high revs,  the majority  of steam boat modellers are not so fast.


Calins models will not be so fast and about 500 rpm Max.
I am intrigued as to where Derek's info comes from.


George.

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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #244 on: November 02, 2021, 09:37:16 pm »

....."I am intrigued as to where Derek's info comes from"

Certainly, so whilst with a lifetime in industrial hydraulic training, professional education with hands on experience in fluids & systems sealing, this includes most recently after retirement, being engaged in defence to review a multi million Euro marine hydraulic reliability/failure warranty claim that is still pending the awarding of costs Judgement in a Court in the Hague - there were no winners here, the fault lay with the vessel builder

However my comments here [collectively] on model check valve and pump ball selections are from a number of 5" gauge engine builders who I consider highly experienced

Having said this, I did not include any reference to use of chrome plated carbon steel balls [nor a 3 second loss of pump pressure]

With respect to model engineering, really no different where some engine builders prefer cast iron piston rings, over Viton or Teflon, or graphited twine ring selections

Derek
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #245 on: November 03, 2021, 07:33:49 am »

I’ve found a nice piece of veneered plywood for the display base.  I’m starting to plan the layout. The paint has dried on the pumps. I plan to make hardwood boiler supports for the boiler utilising two of the boiler bands to secure it to the base. I’ve taped some drawing paper to the base to mark out the plan for positioning and piping layouts. I want all the pipe work to run parallel and equidistant on carriers and hold downs.











Jerry C.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #246 on: November 03, 2021, 03:11:27 pm »

....."I am intrigued as to where Derek's info comes from"

Certainly, so whilst with a lifetime in industrial hydraulic training, professional education with hands on experience in fluids & systems sealing, this includes most recently after retirement, being engaged in defence to review a multi million Euro marine hydraulic reliability/failure warranty claim that is still pending the awarding of costs Judgement in a Court in the Hague - there were no winners here, the fault lay with the vessel builder

However my comments here [collectively] on model check valve and pump ball selections are from a number of 5" gauge engine builders who I consider highly experienced

Having said this, I did not include any reference to use of chrome plated carbon steel balls (nor a 3 second loss of pump pressure]With respect to model engineering, really no different where some engine builders prefer cast iron piston rings, over Viton or Teflon, or graphited twine ring selections

Derek





Well Derek,
I never expected a run down on your professional life nor your professional education again as you did so many years ago on some other discussions.


I would have thought that you would have been quoting from your own experience with rubber balls and not from second hand information passed down by others.


Your quote

(If not, the hammering of the pump pulsation )to 1000 cycles/minute] will chew them to pieces in 5 minutesThe pump in bypass & non functional within 30 seconds )

You are quite correct about no mention to Steel balls but I would have thought that you would know that this is the recommended method of seating steel balls, you having such a distinguished engineering career.


So to conclude, anybody considering using Nitrile or Viton balls for pumps ,check valves and safety valves go ahead and give them a try.
They are easy to machine to take them and as the other 2- members testify are very good for sealing purposes.


Derek don't get fired up, it sounds very much like nobody is supposed to question Derek Warner but go and tell your Loco friends that they are talking thro' a hole in their hat
regarding the Viton balls, better than that tell them to machine the seats properly.


Jerry,
My apologies for jumping on to your thread, your blue paint looks good.


There will be no more interruptions from me


Have a good day


George.
 
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #247 on: November 03, 2021, 10:06:43 pm »

Morning Jerry

Plenty of video footage available on the Stuart Twin Launch Engine  examples with single piston pump with worm & wheel, more straight cut gear reduction by others, but must admit, I have not found, or watched a video of this specific pump design coupled to an engine, and running

From observation, the close fit pump components geometry would appear to create extreme moments at change of direction?

Will you need to mount the pump base [sides] on a fitted metal base to cope with the pulsation?, or will the veneered Plywood suffice?.....looking forward to watching the pump run

[Would love to get some of those miniature transducer load cells & digital equipment [from my past lifetime :P ] to graph & watch the pulsation output]


Or possibly, one of your viewers may offer a link to such, as I assume the pump design is an original Stuart accessory?


When researching previous youtube links, it was nice to see and read again, words from a few other friendly contributors [Mick G & JPD from MBM and Ramon from MEM]....builds of the same Stuart Twin build

Derek
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #248 on: November 04, 2021, 06:01:53 am »

Well it works! Unfortunately I can’t get my drill chuck on the end of the crankshaft to show it running but it turns over smoothly and the pumps pump. I haven’t got use of the compressor at the moment but will post a video when I do. It’s my own design as I’ve never seen one like it and it was easier to make than the usual eccentric and conrods.  I’ve not seen a twin pump layout off one eccentric. We’ll see how it goes. I might change the drive peg  and add a phosphor bronze roller rather then steel on steel. The four studs go right through the 3/4” thick baseboard and each block has a 1/4” central protrusion to transmit any lateral forces to the board and the studs are 5BA.








Jerry C.

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Re: Jerry C starts building a Stuart Twin Launch Engine from castings.
« Reply #249 on: November 04, 2021, 07:52:33 pm »

Jerry,
How about drilling a small hole Counter Sunk at the top as an oil hole in the Scotch crank, it would save you a lot of trouble as at present you still don't have the pumps bolted down.
I made one some years ago  and it's still going strong, as far as I know.


Just a thought.


George.
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