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Author Topic: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!  (Read 1861 times)

zooma

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I noticed this part made kit advertised for sale by auction on eBay with a starting price of 40 but no bids had been received - so being a sucker for rescuing basket cases, and being a Fairey Marine enthusiast who would quite like to add a Huntsman 31 to his fleet (and noticing that the fibre glass hull hull looked like it had not been touched) I made an offer for the 40 starting price.


To my utter surprise my offer was accepted (with no haggling) so I bought it!


A very reasonable tenner was added to cover the delivery costs and the boxed kit arrived yesterday.


The seller very fairly pointed out that the kit had been badly made and that it would probably be best to take it apart and start again, and that the kit had no plans and no building instructions.


I was really pleased to see that the hull really was "as new" so anything else that I found in the box should be regarded as a bonus!  There are some other un-used die-cut parts in the box (including the deck) and I noticed that the wood really is very low grade - something that other Precedent Huntsman kit owners have previously commented on, so this one is no better.


Although this model is not the 1/12 scale that I would have preferred (making it slightly longer than the 1/12 scale Swordsman rather than slightly shorter!) it is none the less a nice size that is handy for carrying and storing and still yet it is still big enough to cope with any water condition that our local Southport Club lake is ever likely to offer.


My thoughts were that with a glass fibre hull I could "whip it together" quickly and have some fun using it over the winter months to test various motor and ESC combinations that would come in handy for when the Swordsman that I am building is finished..........or at least, that was what the thought process was used to justify adding another project that I really didn't need.


Apart from the poor wood quality (something that I was expecting thanks to previous reports about Precedent kits) everything so far looked good, so now it was time to take a look at the "poor build" warning that came from the seller.


The only part of the kit that had been put together was the superstructure.  The first thing I noticed was that this Huntsman 31 has "pointy topped roofs" and that it was not only the joints that were fairly well coated with a think layer of goo, but this goo had also been splashed about in several areas that did not have a joint.


These lumps looked a bit like the coating you would see on a toffee apple (complete with the runs) so I am thinking that the builder of the kit had attempted to glue it together with a hot melt gun?


This would have given him (or her) no time to try to position the various parts together accurately before the hot melt had set unless the parts had been pre-aligned before the glue gun was aimed at them, but clearly this had not been done as there are some fairly big gaps between layers of wood that should have been tightly glued together with no gaps.


Pointy roofs are formed when hard lumps of hot melt are formed under the roof skins preventing them from following the curve of the roof formers.  Mystery solved - Huntsman 31 boats should not have "pointy roofs"! 


I will take the sellers advice and see if I can prise the superstructure apart so I can copy the shapes in some decent wood and rebuild the super-structure without "pointy roofs" as cabin tops.


A set of building instructions would be very handy,  and ChrisF has kindly offered to let me borrow a copy of his plans, so I should have all the information I need to get this into one lump in time for some winter running (!).


I have already ordered an 11" M5 prop shaft (same size as I used on the Swordsman) but I may need to change this for a 12' shaft as this boat will be an inch longer than the Swordsman - but I will see what it looks like when it arrives and use it if I can as I like to use the shortest  shaft that I can on Fairy hulls to get the weight towards the rear of the hull to improve the "nose-down" attitude they can have as they "sit"on the water with before they get moving.



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madwelshman

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 10:17:19 pm »

Ah ha, so that's where it went. I noticed it on there and stuck it in my watched items  :-)


What's the plan for this one?

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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 10:43:26 pm »

Hi Will,

My plan is to get it finished (but with better quality plywood) and to run it on our local club lake in Southport.

I think it could be a nice model, but to make it the way I would like it , almost every part will have to be replaced and cut from new wood so it will not be as quick to put together as I had hoped it would be!

Another Fairey Marine on the water has got to be a good thing!

Stay safe!

Bob.
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madwelshman

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2020, 10:55:56 pm »

Bob,


That's great news. The quality of some of those kits are a little questionable, from what i have learned, so using better quality products will result in a nice vessel.


As you say, brilliant that another Fairey is being saved.


Was it a 34" that one, or am I thinking of a different one I have seen somewhere?


Will
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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 11:06:38 pm »

If you have one, an electric paint stripping gun would probably soften the hot glue gloop, make it easier to pull apart.


Good luck with it.


Ralph
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madwelshman

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2020, 11:16:55 pm »

If you have one, an electric paint stripping gun would probably soften the hot glue gloop, make it easier to pull apart.




That's a damn good idea Ralph.


With the mods I want to make to mine and, a few areas that aren't as solid as when the original builder glued them, I have a few pieces to get some fresh glue into. Getting them separated will make that job much easier.


Cheers.
Will
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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

DaveM

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2020, 11:28:15 pm »

Bob,
The quality of some of those kits are a little questionable, from what i have learned, so using better quality products will result in a nice vessel.
Will
To be fair, the 34" 1/11 scale Huntsman was not a SLEC kit - it was made when Anglian Models owned the rights and the tooling. The quality of their products was uniformly poor with the exception of the GRP hull mouldings. The SLEC Huntsman kits were totally redesigned and only marketed in the last three years; they are either 1/16 or 1/8 scale , with no GRP hull option.
Dave M
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zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 10:40:00 am »

To be fair, the 34" 1/11 scale Huntsman was not a SLEC kit - it was made when Anglian Models owned the rights and the tooling. The quality of their products was uniformly poor with the exception of the GRP hull mouldings. The SLEC Huntsman kits were totally redesigned and only marketed in the last three years; they are either 1/16 or 1/8 scale , with no GRP hull option.
Dave M


Hi Dave,


This is definitely a Precedent kit and it was delivered to me in the original Precedent box.


As far as I know SLEC never made the 34" version of the Huntsman 31, but maybe when Anglian Models had the rights and tooling they made this kit?  I will check the label to see if here are any signs to indicate who actually produced this kit under the Precedent name.


You are right about the GRP hull - it is nicely moulded, but the deep V has been rounded off along the keel line - presumably to make it a little easier to mould?  A wooden hull would produce the sharper apex that would not have this softened "melted" peak look, but on the water this will not be seen and I am very happy with it.


You are also right about the wood quality not being very good and is one of the reasons why I will be re-cutting the parts in some better quality plywood. The other reason for cutting new parts is that some have been assembled and are poorly aligned and heavily coated with what looks like dripping hot melt.


If it were possible to sand this excess glue off, I would still be left with a badly assembled structure (with lots of gaps and glue) made from poor quality wood, so If I can get it apart I will copy the shapes, and if not ChrisF has kindly offered me a plan for the original 34" Modav/Precedent kit that I can make some new (cereal packet) templates from.


This will not be a "quick build" model as the need to re-cut all the wooden parts will take almost as long as building the model from plan, but it will be nice to rescue another model that should now have a better future........unless I also make a bad job of it!


Say safe,


Bob.
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zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 10:53:20 am »

If you have one, an electric paint stripping gun would probably soften the hot glue gloop, make it easier to pull apart.


Good luck with it.


Ralph


Hi Ralf,


Thanks for your helpful suggestion. I have not tried to get the glue off yet, but your idea could come in handy if the glue that looks like hot melt actually is hot melt!



I don't know of any other glue that would dry like this - if it were epoxy it would have "flowed" better and would have made the joint almost impossible to take apart without damage.


This glue appears to be laying on top of the surface in lumps rather than penetrating the fibre of the wood so I am hopeful that I may be able to peel-away at least some of it but a little heat could help to loosen some of the joints that are filled with the glue.


Time will tell, but if takes too long and will not come apart without causing too much damage it would be easier to make new templates from the plan.


Bob.
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2020, 11:26:58 am »

Trust me, Bob. I 've been closely involved with Modav/Balsacraft-Precedent/SLEC for almost 50 years and the Huntsman was my first kit for them. Anglian took on the Precedent name (and a lot of box labels and instructions) when Balsacraft was sold to Ripmax, but I doubt if you'll find any evidence of that in the kit paperwork. They insisted on using their own labour and machinery to produce the kits but they knew little about sourcing timber or the technique of die-cutting liteply. The tools need regular clearing or they distort the parts and start to crunch the wood instead of cutting it cleanly. They didn't do this, which is one reason why their kits were such a mess. The real Huntsman's keel was rounded and not sharp, presumably because it was made from hot-moulded Agba veneers laminated in an autoclave. Sharp corners are a weak point in just about any structure unless reinforced inside.
Dave M
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zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2020, 11:51:50 am »

Trust me, Bob. I 've been closely involved with Modav/Balsacraft-Precedent/SLEC for almost 50 years and the Huntsman was my first kit for them. Anglian took on the Precedent name (and a lot of box labels and instructions) when Balsacraft was sold to Ripmax, but I doubt if you'll find any evidence of that in the kit paperwork. They insisted on using their own labour and machinery to produce the kits but they knew little about sourcing timber or the technique of die-cutting liteply. The tools need regular clearing or they distort the parts and start to crunch the wood instead of cutting it cleanly. They didn't do this, which is one reason why their kits were such a mess. The real Huntsman's keel was rounded and not sharp, presumably because it was made from hot-moulded Agba veneers laminated in an autoclave. Sharp corners are a weak point in just about any structure unless reinforced inside.
Dave M


Hi Dave,


Thanks for the info and for letting me know about your involvement with the kit design and its production history.


Your picture of a real Huntsman stern view is also very helpful as I did not know that the hull shape was rounded at the apex.


I don't have any paperwork in my kit to refer to - only the box label  - but it sounds like the manufacturing source of my particular kit will remain unknown, but it makes no difference as I am happy with my purchase and hope to make a model that will keep me entertained and give me some pleasure running it when it is finished.


My new cut parts will not be made from liteply as I prefer to work with birch plywood but other than that it will stay true to your original design.


Stay safe,


Bob.



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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2020, 12:15:17 pm »

To illustrate the points!
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madwelshman

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2020, 01:46:59 pm »


First of all, let me say, Dave M, my comments weren't a dig at you in any way shape of form, so apologies if it was taken that way.
Yes, the fibreglass hull isn't a bad mould, but as I said, or at least meant, the timber side of things let the kit down a bit.


Tony, looks like you have something you can work with there and certainly improve upon.


Will
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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2020, 02:19:07 pm »

First of all, let me say, Dave M, my comments weren't a dig at you in any way shape of form, so apologies if it was taken that way.
Yes, the fibreglass hull isn't a bad mould, but as I said, or at least meant, the timber side of things let the kit down a bit.
Tony, looks like you have something you can work with there and certainly improve upon.
Will
Will
No offence taken or even perceived, but there are folk out there who might infer from what's been said earlier that the current SLEC Huntsman kits are poor quality. They aren't.


TonyThat is truly horrible!

Bob
I've seen one and from your description I'm 99.9% certain yours is an Angian Models kit. Ian at SLEC would never have let rubbish like that leave the factory! I would probably use birch ply for the frames in your GRP hull with a combination of birch and lite ply for the superstructure.
It's nice to see such renewed interest in a kit which I designed so long ago, as well as the newer 1/16 scale version. They do look fabulous on the water.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1C8SfZPS4&feature=youtu.be
Dave M
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2020, 03:51:18 pm »


Dave,


I understand what you're saying.
Because this thread is posted as a Precedent version, I hope people would realise that was the kit that I was referring to and not the latest kits.  Maybe I should have been a little more specific with what I said/meant, but I just presumed people would take it in reference to the Precedent kits.


Will
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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2020, 04:46:36 pm »

Dave,


I understand what you're saying.
Because this thread is posted as a Precedent version, I hope people would realise that was the kit that I was referring to and not the latest kits.  Maybe I should have been a little more specific with what I said/meant, but I just presumed people would take it in reference to the Precedent kits.


Will
 


Don't worry Will,

It is only my recent eBay purchase that started this thread, and it is about an old part-built Precedent kit of the 34" long Huntsman 31 that has a white GRP moulded hull.

Hopefully the thread will make an interesting read, but any observations made about my "new to me" kit and its poor quality wood etc only refer to this kit, even though some have found that their own Precedent kits had similar quality problems - making my scruffy example far from unique in that respect!

As with most build threads the contributions may "wander off piste" a little from time to time, but that can only make the thread more interesting and include more people who have helpful and interesting comments to make.

There must have been a lot of these Precedent kits sold (both with and without the GRP hull) so I am hoping it may help awaken some fond old memories (maybe some not so fond!) from previous owner/builders who would like to share their own experiences of either building or running one of these shorter 34" Precedent Huntsman 31 models.


Bob.
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2020, 05:19:16 pm »



Tony  That is truly horrible!   

Bob
I've seen one and from your description I'm 99.9% certain yours is an Angian Models kit. Ian at SLEC would never have let rubbish like that leave the factory! I would probably use birch ply for the frames in your GRP hull with a combination of birch and lite ply for the superstructure.
It's nice to see such renewed interest in a kit which I designed so long ago, as well as the newer 1/16 scale version. They do look fabulous on the water. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1C8SfZPS4&feature=youtu.be

Dave M




Tony kindly posted the pictures that I took of my "new to me" kit when it arrived.  "truly horrible" you say  - fair comment !     .............and it just goes to show that one picture can be worth a thousand words.  We almost have enough pictures here for a complete horror novel   {-)


The pictures of the excess adhesive show why I think it could be hot melt - not much else could make a mess like this............or could it?


Watching the Huntsman 31 on the youtube link above is truly inspirational and also shows what "weedy" little ABS plastic air intakes I have glued onto the sides of mine.  I think I will make mine a little bigger when I rebuild the superstructure as they look so much better on the featured video boat!



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madwelshman

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 06:14:26 pm »

Apologies to you too Bob, for causing a bit of a takeover of your thread  :embarrassed:


Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it's great to see another Fairey on here (that's not aimed at you, but the boat  {-) )
I for one will be following your progress on it with great interest and look forward to seeing the end result, whenever that may be.


Will
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Precedent Perkasa - 49 1/2"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 47"
Veron Fairey Huntsman 28 - 42"
Precedent Fairey Huntsman 31 - 34"
Aerokits Sea Commander 34"
Aerokits Sea Rover - 29 1/2"

zooma

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2020, 06:28:21 pm »

Apologies to you too Bob, for causing a bit of a takeover of your thread  :embarrassed:


Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it's great to see another Fairey on here (that's not aimed at you, but the boat  {-) )
I for one will be following your progress on it with great interest and look forward to seeing the end result, whenever that may be.


Will


Hi Will,

This build will not be as fast as it was intended to be due to the need to replace every wooden part in the kit, and I want to keep my 1/12 scale Swordsman build moving along as the Swordsman was my first ever r/c model boat and I built it when I was (much) younger from an Aerokits kit back in the 1960's.

This was the ONLY model boat kit that I wanted to buy and make at the time as it was (in my eyes at least) by far the best looking power boat I had ever seen.  I was smitten by the Fairey Marine design at a young age and have waited for far too long to replace it and own another one.

I may be a Fairey fancier - but I don't have a magic wand  {-)
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2020, 06:29:55 pm »

As an aside, having built both the SLEC Huntsman and Swordsman 1:16 kits I have to say that I think they are the best designed kits I have ever constructed. The parts go together almost like an Airfix kit - quite an achievement for something that is mainly constructed of liteply. Dave is a bit of a genius although he won't thank me for saying so.

Colin
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2020, 06:32:55 pm »



The pictures of the excess adhesive show why I think it could be hot melt - not much else could make a mess like this............or could it?



Not sure that is hot melt, it could well be an epoxy, ladled on in spoonfuls and left to find its own way.  Can you mark it with a finger nail?  If it's that soft, it could be hot melt (or a poorly mixed epoxy!).  If it is hard, it's probably epoxy.  But the good news is that most "domestic" epoxies will soften with heat, so a heat gun should allow you to get the joints apart.  The glue won't go runny, but gentle use of a stanley knife should open up the joint.  You probably won't be able to clean off all those lovely gobs of glue, but at least you should be able to get a template off the piece.  It does need to be quite hot though, a hair drier won't cut it.  Good luck!

Greg

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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2020, 07:17:13 pm »

If it's a very old and rigid lump it's almost certainly old furniture glue heated in a bucket OR Croid, if someone had a VERY old tube!
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2020, 07:19:30 pm »

Hello
I've got a Precedent 34" Huntsman but mine is the wooden hulled version, I once ran it alongside a grp hulled version and mine appeared to be a lot more stable, the only thing we could conclude was that the grp one was top heavy so it may be wise to build the superstructure as light as possible.


It will be good to see it when finished :-))
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2020, 09:03:45 pm »

Not sure that is hot melt, it could well be an epoxy, ladled on in spoonfuls and left to find its own way


I agree with Greg - it does look more like epoxy than hot melt. An alternative to the hot air gun I mentioned before would be to run a flat tipped soldering bolt along the joints - that should burn off either epoxy or hot glue (but do it outside cos it'll stink you out with eye watering smoke).


Ralph
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Re: Precedent 31. 1/11 scale 34" long Fibre Glass Hull. Forty quids worth!
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2020, 09:14:16 pm »

Not sure that is hot melt, it could well be an epoxy, ladled on in spoonfuls and left to find its own way.  Can you mark it with a finger nail?  If it's that soft, it could be hot melt (or a poorly mixed epoxy!).  If it is hard, it's probably epoxy.  But the good news is that most "domestic" epoxies will soften with heat, so a heat gun should allow you to get the joints apart.  The glue won't go runny, but gentle use of a stanley knife should open up the joint.  You probably won't be able to clean off all those lovely gobs of glue, but at least you should be able to get a template off the piece.  It does need to be quite hot though, a hair drier won't cut it.  Good luck!

Greg


Hi Greg,

I have had a chance to dig my fingernails into the "goo" and it is quite "gummy" and not hard or brittle.

The drips can also be lifted under a fingernail and pulled away from the wood, so I am guessing that it may be dried-on  hot-melt,  but the way it has flooded into the cab to front screen joints looks like it has filled the joint quite well and being a little "flexible" this could be a lot harder to get out of the joint without some heat.

I am boxing-up a nice little NTL600 power boat that I have just sold (wife's  rules = one boat in, one boat out!) and I need to get it ready for the carrier to uplift "first thing" but when I have finished I will get out into the workshop(shed) and have a proper "prod" at it and see what happens!

Stay safe!

Bob.
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