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[madwelshman]

Bob, I can't remember off hand if the tubes are bonded or filled around where they pass through the bulkhead, so that's something I will have to check. I will remove as much/any excess or loose epoxy/filler/etc before I give them a whack     


I will post how I progress, slowly I'm sure.


Will

[zooma]

Take it steady Will - removing all the surplus "gunge" first to weaken the bond (whatever it was they used to glue the shafts in with) and this technique will get those extra shafts out for you.

Three prop shafts does seem a bit excessive for a Sea Rover - but it does actually looks quite good - I wonder how well it run?

Controlling three motors would have been a bit of a pain - and working out which way to make them all rotate wold be interesting too!

A single motor will be a lot less hassle - thats for sure!

Bob.

[madwelshman]

I think that this was done a long time ago, when your options were a sealed lead acid battery, or a ni-cad. The SLA battery would give a better run time, but being so heavy may well be the reason why multiple motors/drives were fitted, to try and give a half decent performance and overcome the weight.
Brushless and a lipo is definitely the way to go, being so much lighter and more efficient.


So, although triple drives is interesting, I am definitely going to convert back to a single instead.


Maybe next week will be (attempted) D-day for the additional shafts.


Will

[madwelshman]

Well, a 'little' bit of progress made today.


Sea Rover has now gone from triple screw, back to single screw  (well, there aren't any props, just shafts and tubes, but you get what I mean)


Thankfully, the stern tubes weren't bonded into the bulkhead through to where the motors were, so I chopped through them with a grinder in the length between the hull bottom and the bulkhead. This allowed me to withdraw the stubs from the bulkhead and allow the longer length of shaft/tube to move a little when I pushed it side to side in the epoxy. I also removed the shaft support below the hull, to allow it to move more easily.

[madwelshman]

With a pair of pipe grips, I was able to twist the stern tube in the epoxy and move it around until it was free enough to extract from the hull.


I know to many of you this is only a very minor thing, but for me, it's a decent step and the first job partly done.

[madwelshman]

The next job, i think, is to tidy up the hull (inside and out) where the removed stern tubes were, fill the holes so it's water tight again.

[madwelshman]

Can anyone advise me on what to use and the best way of sealing those holes up please? 


Will

[grasshopper]

If it was me I’d measure the diameter of the prop tube you’ve removed, find a piece of dowel the same diameter and fill the hole with that well glued in then plane to surface,  fill and paint.

[madwelshman]

If it was me I’d measure the diameter of the prop tube you’ve removed, find a piece of dowel the same diameter and fill the hole with that well glued in then plane to surface,  fill and paint.

Grasshopper, that's spot on. Just the sort of advice I was after (and within my skill set too  ), thank you.


Will

[ChrisF]

Hi Will

Great that you got them out without too much trouble and without any damage. If it was me, before dealing with the holes I'd get rid of all the paint off the outside of the hull and fill using P38. I'd then treat the whole of the outside of the hull with Eze-Kote resin and lightweight cloth which will tie everything together and provide a uniform and stable basis for painting.

I 'd also replace the timber support to the remaining prop shaft (is the prop shaft Ok?) as it looks like a dog's hind leg, is too thin and maybe is insecure and has some rot? Now is the time to make sure everything is sound.

Chris

[madwelshman]

Thanks Chris, I was quite pleased at how well they came out to be honest.


The plan was/is to clean/sand things back where the holes are and see what the hull is like under there before filling the holes.


You would recommend the eze-kote would you?
I've never used it before or the lightweight cloth either.


The keel/prop shaft support isn't brilliant and will more than likely need replacing I believe.  I'm guessing I need to cut off the section that needs replacement and cut a new piece, shape to match and glue it on?


The centre prop shaft, I haven't assessed that yet and may well need replacing too if it's bent.


Plenty to do still, and that's just on this boat 


Will

[zooma]

Plugging the old shaft holes with dowel is a good idea, or you could shape some scrap wood to fill the gaps.  I usually make any plugs individually to be quite a tight fit and gently tap them into place after coating them and the hole with 24hr Araldite.  If you also make them a little over-size in length they can be sanded back after the glue has dried to give a perfectly finished repair.


The epoxy will fill any less that perfect gaps as removing the old shafts may not have left perfectly shaped round holes, and the slow curing epoxy gives you time to work and will give a stronger bond than a 5 minute epoxy (or similar fast drying epoxy adhesive). I usually cover the joint area with masking tape to keep the adhesive  contained as the epoxy can flow a little as it seals everything and starts to cure.


If you are going to change your remaining shaft for a new one you can see if the wooden skeg/tube support is still sound or rotten. If you are going to keep the existing shaft you can sand back the paint around the joint to see if the wood is sound and see if it is just some poor paint and filler that is making it look worse than it is - the wood underneath could well be OK.


My last completed restoration was my Rapier and that has been in constant use since it was finished. This model could be a similar age to your Sea Rover and also needed a fair bit of new wood with new cabin sides etc.


I used Aliphatic glues on any wood to wood joints and 24 hr Araldite to bond in the original shaft after removing it to rough-up the outside of the tube to give it a good bond into the original wooden keel.


I never used any cloth coating on the model. I sanded everything to give a smooth surface that included a real mix of old paint, new paint, P38 filler, old wood and new wood  etc (a typical mix when restoring and mixing "the old with the new") and painted it.


Since then the Rapier has been driven really hard (and probably a lot faster than the designer ever intended), but it has been reliable so the traditional finishing methods of wood primer, undercoat and topcoat have worked well and any future maintenance or repairs that may be needed can be tackled the same way.

[madwelshman]

Bob,


Thanks again for your input (and everyone elses too of course), all gratefully received and taken in.


I haven't really done anything with wooden hulls before, so all of this is new to me. But, I'm eager to save this model and improve both my skills and knowledge along the way. So far (not that I've done much) I am enjoying myself, but am keeping the end result firmly in my mind as both my goal and motivation.


There is movement in the timber below the stern tube and I think at the moment, that it is just a case of having come away from the outside of the tube. But, I don't yet know if there is any rot in that timber or not.  I'm sure all will be revealed when I sand it all back.


Will

[madwelshman]

Does anybody have any suggestions please?


As previously mentioned, I need to replace the cabin sides on the Sea Rover, but they are bonded to the frames and transom before the hull is decked (see attached picture).  I don't really want to go as far as removing the deck unless I REALLY have to.
Is there maybe a way I can slice down the side of them, between the cabin side and each frame, to cut it away? I did wonder about a multi tool with a the thinnest cutting blade I can get?


Will

[zooma]

Hi Will,


I had exactly the same problem when I started to restore my Rapier and decided to cut away the old cabin sides and replace them with new ones.


If you take a look at the Rapier thread on here you can follow the progress because I would think that most of what I had to do will be very similar you what you are going to do.


I found a Tamiya razor saw was very helpful and allowed me to remove the cabin sides completely.


Take a look at the thread and if you need any help, don't hesitate to contact me.


Bob.

[ChrisF]

Hi Will

You could use a razor saw. But as the coamings and rear part of the cabin look quite good a better way might be to leave those parts in, cut the top off the rest of the cabin, the front part, flush with the deck. Then cut out some new cabin parts so that they sit on top where the old ones were cut off and glue a strip of timber alongside the inside of the joint - maybe fit that first so that the sides can butt up to it.

You could also add an extra skin to the inside of the cockpit sides if extra strength is required. And a cap along the top to cover the joint and finish it off.

However Bob is the renovation king so may have a better solution.

Chris


Edit: Bob just beat me to it!

[tonyH]

Hi Will,
I've had similar situations in the past and I've used a junior hacksaw blade with the pins removed. You can also bend them to suit the odd spot or even break them to suit if necessary and another advantage is that you can reverse the cut to the pulling stroke. I've also used an old feeler gauge blade with teeth cut in with a dremel cutting disc.
Good Luck
Tony

[madwelshman]

Bob, Chris, Tony,


Thank you very much for your advice guys, really appreciated. Like I've said this side of model boats is quite new to me, so I have a lot to learn still.
Hopefully I won't be too much of a pain in the ar$3 with all my questions!!


Will 

[zooma]

Hi Will,


I have sent you a complete photo-blog of the Rapier restoration as it will cover everything you have to do.


Hope it helps!


Bob.

[madwelshman]

Extremely grateful for that Bob, thank you very much.


I will go through it all this evening so that I can see how you went about it.




Will 

[zooma]

No problem Will.

If you also read the Rapier thread on here you can see that I have tackled every job that you have to do on your Sea Rover.

Once you get started I am sure you will enjoy solving all those little problems as they come along - and you will probably find better ways of doing some of the jobs than I did.

The Rapier was my second restoration, the first was a TID tug that had a good glass fibre hull, but everything else was a mess, so I removed everything from the hull and used that model as my first experience of building from a plan - and my first experience of working with plastic sheet!

The Rapier was my first experience of restoring a wooden boat and with no plan to refer to.  Part way through the rebuild I was able to buy a plan, but it turned-out to be a typical "kit plan" that showed non of the bulkhead shapes and windscreen details that I would have liked - and by the time it arrived I had already solved the problems.

Once you cut the cabin sides out everything else will come together.

Good luck  - but be careful - this restoration lark can become addictive!

Bob.

[madwelshman]

I have a good bit of info to refer to now, thank you Bob.
So this week if time allows, I'm hoping to do something with the removed prop shaft holes and get those blocked off, filled and sanded back.
I also plan to cut out some cardboard templates that I can offer up against what is already there. Then I can try and work out how drastic the surgery on the Rover will be.
Whether I attempt to remove the sides completely and fit new ones completely or cut them down to deck level and butt the new sections on top, I'm not sure yet.
I also need to inspect the remaining centre shaft and make sure it is serviceable. If not, that's more surgery 


I am looking forward to making a proper start on it, but I'm also a little apprehensive too 
Once I start though, A, I'll have no choice but to carry on and B, once it starts looking a little less unloved, damaged and getting some shape back to it, that will boost both my enthusiasm and confidence.


Will

[madwelshman]

Has anyone any suggestions of where to buy 4mm ply from please?
There aren't any model shops anywhere near me, so i would have to have it delivered.


Thanks in advance.
Will

[Colin Bishop]

SLEC are good. Don't buy anything from a DiY store.

https://www.slecuk.com/birch-ply/40mm-532quot-birch-bbbb

Colin

[madwelshman]

Thank you Colin.
Some of the model shops that I have already looked at are low or even out of a fair bit of wood.
I will have a look at SLEC.


Will