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[Tug Fanatic]

It's a personal choice, but those who choose not to be vaccinated put the rest of the population at risk. ..................

Peter.

Is it? We all accept rules for the good of society. Speed limits for example are there to protect society from the irresponsible implications of driving to fast. We all believe them to be wrong in some cases but accept them as necessary. There are lots of other examples. Medically we accept the need to wear glasses for driving if we cannot see sufficiently well without them.

Is vaccinating against Covid so different?

I am not interested in personal choice where it impinges on the safety of society as a whole.

[Colin Bishop]

Bolton now has infection rate of 302/100k, down here it is 10/100k!

You can understand why the authorities are nervous.

Colin

[Tug Fanatic]

Bolton now has infection rate of 302/100k, down here it is 10/100k!

You can understand why the authorities are nervous.

Colin

How much does a Trump wall cost?   

That is the sort of level that has caused lock downs in the past. I understand what the Mayor of Bolton is saying when he argues that a local lockdown won't work as residents will simply travel elsewhere to do whatever is closed where they live thus causing wider spread. You cannot rely on people to act responsibly whatever politicians might say.

Lets hope that it is a problem largely restricted to the Indian community and others where vaccine take up has been lower.

Some of the stories about evading overseas arrival rules defy belief.

[JimG]

Once you get your second dose, you will be immune to the effects of the disease.  Everyone else in the world could be hacking their lungs out and you would be sitting pretty.  That's how vaccines work.  If after the full regimen of doses you are still susceptible to being sickened and killed by the pathogen in question, what you've received is not a vaccine but some sort of experimental prophylactic.

The vaccines do not confer immunity to the effects of the virus. Just as the flu vaccine doesn't give immunity. It is given to prepare your immune system in advance so that if you do pick up the virus it can act before the virus can cause severe damage to your cells. It is possible to be infected after the full vaccine has been given but it will only have a moderate or slight effect making you feel unwell instead of being unable to breathe and needing to be put on a ventilator. This is why the recommendation is to continue wearing the mask after vaccination. (To reduce the risk to others if you should be carrying the virus without symptoms, vaccines don't stop you carrying the virus even if they stop you being infected yourself.)
Jim

[raflaunches]

Managed to get my first jab booked- absolutely ridiculous how long it’s taken for me to book an appointment- three days of continuous refreshing the NHS website to find a vaccine centre actually in a part of the country where I live or work! At one point they were offering the appointment at Kenilworth whilst I was working at Brize Norton. That wasn’t realistic to offer that kind of distance!
But glad it’s booked as is the second one.

[BrianB6]

I had my first A-Z shot on Tuesday.  My wife was not due to have hers but the nurse said "bring you beautiful wife in" so we both had it and so far no side effects.  Mind you, I have so many side effects from my chemo. that I probably would not notice another.
Melbourne has a weeks lockdown from tonight but it is the Indian version and spreading quickly so it will probably last a lot longer.   Of course! an infected person went to the 'footy' and may have infected 10,000 others.   
Vaccination rates jumped 250% yesterday and waits for testing are at least 3 hours. 

[Peter Fitness]

Complacency sets in, then it takes an outbreak to get people to have the covid test. Vaccination rates are low, but this is directly linked to the botched supply of the vaccine to vaccination centres. Australia did well to contain the virus in the early stages of the pandemic, but acquisition and distribution of vaccines has been appalling. Other factors causing low vaccination rates include apathy, the attitude that “Australia is one of the safest places in the world, so we don’t need to worry”, and concerns about the side effects, clotting etc, even though the risk is infinitesimal. Outbreaks, such as those in Victoria, are going to continue to occur for a very long time, and the only real defence is to have the vast majority of the population vaccinated so the severity of the effects of the virus is minimised.


Peter.

[Tug Fanatic]

Agreed. If you don't get most people vaccinated you will remain very isolated as you dare not let anybody else into your country as they might start an outbreak.

Even vaccinated people, Australian or otherwise, can still bring Covid into the country.

If nothing else the Indian variant has concentrated minds here and uptake has risen.
 

[Colin Bishop]

There is an article on the BBC website about the situation in Australia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57224635

Colin

[derekwarner]

This is a pretty well balanced review, understanding & presentation of our Australian COVID related framework and strategies


However it was written 2 days prior to the latest outbreak of COVID in Melbourne Victoria


From mid-night tonight, Victoria goes back into Stage 4 lockdown [again]

14 day Isolations have proved to be totally unreliable in confirmation that a person is not a [latent] carrier of COVID


If I suggested sending all International returnees be sent to the Simpson Desert in the middle of OZ  for 6 months & see what happens,  I probably would be considered not inline with Government Policy   or more to the point that the Government would like to do this, but would they then would be seen as inhumane?


Derek

[phillnjack3]

has anyone thought about using the daft paper masks as fue lfilters for their glow motors ?


i cant see any other usefull porpose for them ?

[jaymac]

Just had my invitation for another Anti body test by Uk Biobank. had my previous one back in March.
 Apparently that one does not tell whether my positive was due to my Vac doses or Covid whereas this test will.Should be interesting might get a surprise

[Tug Fanatic]

Do any of us believe in the common sense and decency of all the English people that Boris is expecting with regard to the wearing of face masks & other anti covid measures or do we believe that it is the government spinning the story? Is all they have ever really cared about the NHS and avoiding pictures of ambulance queues?

Vaccines have largely broken the link between disease, hospitals and death for most people but the vaccine doesn't work for everyone.

Has any government minister ever tried going up to a group of strangers, asking them to put on face masks and believing without question that they would do so and will continue to do so? Do they believe that everyone will actually carry a mask to wear when appropriate?

As I am on the endangered list & I don't believe in the decency and common sense of all the population I have purchaed an FFP3 mask. I might look like an idiot but at least I will feel a bit safer if I can't avoid going to somewhere shared with others.

How many million cases are they expecting in the next few weeks?

 

[Taranis]

It amazes me that they're still talking about social distancing as if anyone is taking any notice anymore.

[malcolmfrary]

Do any of us believe in the common sense and decency of all the English people that Boris is expecting with regard to the wearing of face masks & other anti covid measures or do we believe that it is the government spinning the story? Is all they have ever really cared about the NHS and avoiding pictures of ambulance queues?

Vaccines have largely broken the link between disease, hospitals and death for most people but the vaccine doesn't work for everyone.

Has any government minister ever tried going up to a group of strangers, asking them to put on face masks and believing without question that they would do so and will continue to do so? Do they believe that everyone will actually carry a mask to wear when appropriate?

As I am on the endangered list & I don't believe in the decency and common sense of all the population I have purchaed an FFP3 mask. I might look like an idiot but at least I will feel a bit safer if I can't avoid going to somewhere shared with others.

How many million cases are they expecting in the next few weeks?

Common sense and decency are in short enough supply to be considered mythical.  I will continue to put my faith in my mask and sanitiser.  I do have lots of sympathy for those who have to work in situations where they are forced into meeting with the ignorant and arrogant who whine about their "rights" while avoiding any of the responsibilities that go with those rights.
I've been noting the daily new case figures in my area to give a rolling 3 day average.  Saturday 3 weeks ago, 115.  2 weeks, 196.  Last week, 227.  This Saturday, 420.  The trend is not reassuring for a full ending to what is legally enforced and what is left to "good sense".
Has anybody else used one of those painting programs where you can "pour" a colour into an area?  Remember seeing what happened when the poured colour found the missing pixel in the boundary?  A reasonable illustration of how a contagion spreads.

[Tug Fanatic]

......................I will continue to put my faith in my mask and sanitiser....................

I assume that everyone is aware that basic and FFP2 masks are worn largely to protect others but that evidence (Cambridge study) suggests FFP3 masks are worn to protect yourself as well.

[Colin Bishop]

I rather think there will be some arguments next week in places where people are effectively forced together such as supermarkets. I feel sorry for shopkeepers and shop assistants who are in proximity to a cnstant stream of starngers all day. Shops castill insist masks be worn (or no service) but would be sensible to keep the screens in place for a long while yet. Unitil the current outbreak dies down I will still be avoiding gatherings of people such as inside a pub although a meal in the garden will probably be OK if it isn't raining.

Something which doesn't get discussed much is that a large chunk of the population seem pruod that they don't read newspapers or watch TV news and probably have only the vaguest idea of what is going on anyway!

Colin

[Colin Bishop]

I assume that everyone is aware that basic and FFP2 masks are worn largely to protect others but that evidence (Cambridge study) suggests FFP3 masks are worn to protect yourself as well.

The masks with valves don't protect anyone else as your exhalation goes straight to the open air. The FFP3s without masks are apparently uncomfortable to wear.

Colin

[Tug Fanatic]

The masks with valves don't protect anyone else as your exhalation goes straight to the open air. The FFP3s without masks are apparently uncomfortable to wear.

Colin

They are not uncomfortable for me but I am aware of a bit of effort breathing in. You quickly forget about it unless climbing a steep hill! Safety first. The problem is breathing out which seems to break the nose/mask seal and fogs my glasses. I have tried many remedies but only summer heat seems to stop my glasses fogging.

I suspect that all those who don't listen/read/view the news will somehow have found out that they don't need to wear a mask any more. They hear what they want to hear.

[warspite]

In my opinion and apparently the same can be said for the brother in law, is that BJ and his cronies are easing up so that the vast majority of people DO catch the delta variant - why, most people have been vaccinated and have some immunity against having serious effects from delta (its just unfortunate that those who did not believe in getting the jab are going to be effected more than the rest of us, a case of serves them right) catching delta for someone who is vaccinated is only going to allow them to build better antibodies bolstered by the weaker antibodies fighting and in some cases losing against delta, but effectively the better immune system of those that catch any future covid will be less of a strain both on them and the NHS.


Its a cheaper way of boosting immunity in the populace, a case of they have been vaccinated  -  lets use it to fight the later variants.


Just my opinion

[Colin Bishop]

I bought some IIR masks a while back, better than the cheapies and much better that the old socks some people seem to favour.

I agree with Warspite that HMG is letting the Delta variant burn through the younger generations who are less likely to be affected but there wll still inevitably be casualties from long covid and those that do develop symptoms which require hospitalisation.

It was inevitable that the Delta variant would take hold but the process could probably have been much slowed fown if the influx of passengers from India had been brought under control when the threat became clear to most people, but not it seems HMG.

I have two daughters, one just over 40 and one just under. They have had their first jabs but want to wait the full 8 weeks or so for the second to maximise their protection. Fortunately they both work mainly from home.

Seeing the crowds at Wimbledon and Wembley this week, hardly a mask anywhere, suggests there will be a big spike in infections soon, especially when you add in all the footie fans celebrating in the streets and pubs. I'm very glad we live in a rural environment!

Colin

[grendel]

They are not uncomfortable for me but I am aware of a bit of effort breathing in. You quickly forget about it unless climbing a steep hill! Safety first. The problem is breathing out which seems to break the nose/mask seal and fogs my glasses. I have tried many remedies but only summer heat seems to stop my glasses fogging.

as someone who could have claimed exemption, this is the state of affairs for me when not wearing a mask, if I wear a light open weave scarf, I can till walk around slowly to shop, my mask has only ever been a lip service to the face covering rule, it covered my face, but I could still breathe, but did absolutely nothing to protect me or others, I have worn it to save tiring explanations at every shop, It was only when face masks came in that I even realised i had breathing problems at all, generally I breath deeply normally, that slight restriction was enough to drop my oxygen content below 95% in just a few steps of exercise. so I am cautious about the relaxation, in some ways it will make life easier for me, but I am wary that others will see it as freedom to crowd up and ignore social distancing. you bet that I will be trying to maintain a good seperation between myself and others even after the restriction lifts, but wearing the face covering ?
its also been a difficult time hearing others, as a tinetus sufferer it doesnt take a lot for me to not hear or mishear, and once again I had not realised just how much I relied on lip reading to hear what people said, so that again will be a useful side effect of returning to normality.

[tonyH]

Isn't this a case of going the "crowd immunity" route before the winter so the meds can get it out of the way as much as possible before everything else is thrown into the pot?

[jaymac]

Just to cheer you up a woman in Belgium  now has double Covid 2 variants at the same time that could produce a good mutation

[Colin Bishop]

According to the BBC report She was 90 years old and died in March. She had not been vaccinated.

Colin