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Author Topic: Covid vaccination  (Read 73148 times)

Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2021, 12:32:44 pm »

This is what you are up against:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55668923

Colin

Fines (at the present level) don't work and moral obligation is a non starter. I know what I would like to do with these people but this is a family forum so............................

Isn't it strange that the ones who are stopping the infection rates falling faster by doing what they want to do, regardless of the cost to others, are also the ones stopping the rest of us getting some of our freedoms restored.

Has anybody else noticed the enormous number of groups who think that they should have priority & jump the queue?

The last 40 years seem to have been dominated by "human rights" and similar  + the rise of irresponsible social media. This might just be part of the price.

None of this has anything to do with Covid Vaccinations which I hope we can keep the topic centred on.
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dougal99

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #126 on: January 25, 2021, 02:54:56 pm »

There are many reasons for not wanting the vaccination summed up by what are the long term effects? These are totally unknown at the moment. I am on a 3 year trial to determine the effects. Now I'm 6 weeks in.
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Andy M

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2021, 02:56:09 pm »

Have you noticed any effects so far?
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dougal99

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2021, 03:06:05 pm »

As far as is known there are no serious short term effects. The study is looking long term.
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jaymac

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2021, 04:44:00 pm »

If you are only on a 3year trial must be a cheaper version mines is for Life ;D
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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2021, 04:45:30 pm »

As far as is known there are no serious short term effects. The study is looking long term.


 I felt a bit queer the day after but i'm alright now
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TheLongBuild

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #131 on: January 26, 2021, 01:08:36 pm »

When they announce the daily figures they always say the deaths as reported with a positive Covid test within 28 days of the Death.. If you are tested positive and then within the 28 day period say you fall down and bang your head, you initially survive but a few days later you pass away because of a brain clot or something, Would this then still be attributed to Covid. ?


All above Hypothetical.


roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #132 on: January 26, 2021, 01:16:35 pm »

Yes.
Roy
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #133 on: January 26, 2021, 01:27:44 pm »

Numbers are just numbers.  I never came across anyone (at work) who was surprised by the results of doing their own statisitics.  The corollary is the statistics were to show how they support the argument.

Trends over a period of time are the most informative, then, when they are small enough chase every bad item down until the reason is known.  Moving into Zero defects rather than percentage reliability.

Last years BBC Christmas lectures gave an incite (I think it was last year, maybe I give it 80 % chance of being right)!
Regards
Roy
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #134 on: January 26, 2021, 02:34:40 pm »

And so the great Covid Vaccine war begins (very tongue in cheek).

Wars have been fought over land, water, oil, minerals, religion and now the verbal hostilities begin over the supply of Covid Vaccine.

All very predictable - sad but predictable.
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #135 on: January 26, 2021, 04:58:51 pm »

Don't forget the Navy is ready for this!
We have CV 01 and CV 02 ready to defend us.
Oh, dear I do hope we can borrow some aircraft.
regards
Roy
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canabus

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #136 on: January 26, 2021, 11:45:34 pm »

So the Chinese New Year for 2021 was to be the year of the OX, but has been change to the YEAR OF THE JAB !!!!!


Canabus
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SailorGreg

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #137 on: January 27, 2021, 11:39:23 am »

When they announce the daily figures they always say the deaths as reported with a positive Covid test within 28 days of the Death.. If you are tested positive and then within the 28 day period say you fall down and bang your head, you initially survive but a few days later you pass away because of a brain clot or something, Would this then still be attributed to Covid. ?


All above Hypothetical.

Yes, all deaths within the 28 day period are included in the COVID figures.  Conversely, if through the herculean efforts of the medics you survive for 29, 30 or more days, then die, you are not included in the figures, even though it is blindingly obvious that COVID killed you.  I suspect that the latter category is much larger than those who die of other causes, meaning the overall total is greater than the published figure, grim though that already is.  <:( <:(

Greg

Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #138 on: January 27, 2021, 11:46:55 am »

The quoted numbers don't really matter. Lets just settle for far too many and rising quickly.

The statistic that I would choose is the excess number of deaths this year compared to previous years. This is currently 99000+. This probably underestimates the Covid tally as normally Flu kills a good few people. This year, due to Covid restrictions, almost nobody has died of flu.

When two different sources say the same thing it adds credibility to both.
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #139 on: January 27, 2021, 01:22:48 pm »

Hi the number of deaths each year was around 500,000 in the UK, this was going up as the population has increased in numbers. 

I heard a figure for 2020 which was just short of 700,000, I am happy to be corrected on this.  I am sure you can work out all the various situations to accomodate these figures.

But roughly they have gone up from nearly 10K to 14K per week, bear in mind the numbers are seasonal.

regards
Roy
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #140 on: January 27, 2021, 04:06:00 pm »

The number of people affected might or might not be vastly more than "normal", but in normal times we are not putting a vast effort into avoiding infection, finding new treatments and the vaccination program. 
It was disturbing over the summer to see, when restrictions were eased an inch or two, large numbers of people taking a mile.  And then, given the contradictory advice from on high, along with some very poor examples, a great many cherry-picked the advice that suited them at that moment without any regard for any possible consequences.
Anyway, got my letter today, stabbing is booked.  Only a few miles away, with a decent car park. 
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cos918

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2021, 10:18:49 pm »

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warspite

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #142 on: January 28, 2021, 10:59:25 am »

And who sent the 'bomb' to the bottling plant in Wrexham (suspicious package), if a hoax they need to be put away for life as a danger to themselves let alone the general public, I think the 28 days test does include all those 29+ days as well as the overall total is given, otherwise the ONS figure would be a better indicator
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #143 on: January 28, 2021, 07:22:20 pm »

Got my invite yesterday, booked online, had the shot today.  Couple of hours gone by, and despite the nano chips, I still have no desire to mysteriously buy an Apple product.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #144 on: January 29, 2021, 11:50:14 am »

Great news that the Novavax has been approved but is it too late? The delivery dates that are being quoted are largely after the UK population will have received on of the other vaccines.

The EU mess is worrying. With anything like this I always think that it is always mentally switching places with the other side & see how it feels. I can imagine the uproar in the UK press if the EU had lots of vaccine and we didn't and it was being made in the UK. Allowing for this being political they are all acting to support their votes and their people.

I just hope that the contract situation is as seen from the UK perspective rather than that put forward by the EU. We will see. 

We will also see what, out of a long list of options that I can think of in a few seconds, they are going to do to force concessions & get more vaccine sooner. As with everything else their negotiating position is much more powerful than ours regardless of who is in the right.
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warspite

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #145 on: January 29, 2021, 12:26:18 pm »

It all depends on what is in the contract, the UK bioreactor is producing what is required - whether by luck or good management by the technicians, whereas the European division is not yielding the same quantity it is capable of, and thats what is causing the issue, if the contract states its for the European division to deliver a set amount then they can only get what its producing, if its based on a company wide system or 'the AZ' company standard contract, then they could claim its a breach of contract and the standard conditions come into effect - paying for the product does not mean you are entitled to demand the product, as the product belongs to the company until it delivers it, only the company can divert the product to another customer.


They could take a hit and call their bluff by repaying the EU money with interest and say that as they have not delivered, and that the contract is now invalidated and therefore the company will not be supplying the product, that would leave the EU in very sticky position relying on Biontech and Maderna alone, and therefore inoculation rates would fall further, one of Germanies advisory bodies stating its not found to be effective with over 65's is as good as any reason to cancel the contract on it not being suitable for purpose.


AZ India's produced version could be shipped to the EU from AZ, but the countries that are buying that divisions product might complain as well.


The EU's interference to the purchase system is what has caused the problem (the individual countries were going to buy from the companies but the EU said no - we will order it all as one purchaser - with two months rolling by as a consequence), thats why i voted for leave in brexit, an un-elected french designed system that stamps on the sovereignty of all its members under its guiding principles.  >:-o
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #146 on: January 29, 2021, 12:41:12 pm »

It all depends on what is in the contract, the UK bioreactor is producing what is required - whether by luck or good management by the technicians, whereas the European division is not yielding the same quantity it is capable of, and thats what is causing the issue, if the contract states its for the European division to deliver a set amount then they can only get what its producing, if its based on a company wide system or 'the AZ' company standard contract, then they could claim its a breach of contract and the standard conditions come into effect - paying for the product does not mean you are entitled to demand the product, as the product belongs to the company until it delivers it, only the company can divert the product to another customer.


They could take a hit and call their bluff by repaying the EU money with interest and say that as they have not delivered, and that the contract is now invalidated and therefore the company will not be supplying the product, that would leave the EU in very sticky position relying on Biontech and Maderna alone, and therefore inoculation rates would fall further, one of Germanies advisory bodies stating its not found to be effective with over 65's is as good as any reason to cancel the contract on it not being suitable for purpose.


That is not my understanding of contract law. I understand that to form a contract you need an offer an acceptance and a consideration. There appears to be all 3 in this case. If either party fails to deliver then there is a breach of contract and damages become payable. This would be a lot more than interest give that thousands might die and countries suffer from extended economic damage..

It all depends on the specific wording of contracts but without that information I don't see a clear answer. This is pure speculation.

I do see why the EU did what they did to protect the smaller EU countries. The very unfortunate bit was that it caused delay which might or might not be relevant to the problem. Again whether this matters depends on the contracts signed which I can well imagine were lengthy and complicated documents. It is not impossible that 2 contracts were signed which conflicted with each other. We will see.
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #147 on: January 29, 2021, 12:55:25 pm »

Agree with your thinking Tug about the other guy.  I suspect that it is a combination of an unwieldy large organization with a few checks on the sleazy politicians (we have them too).  But in the end they came to the party 3 months late and the best deals were all taken.
regards
Roy
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #148 on: January 29, 2021, 01:23:52 pm »

..................................  But in the end they came to the party 3 months late and the best deals were all taken.
regards
Roy

That is one of the things what some very expensive lawyers will be arguing about. Personally I believe that if a politician is speaking they are probably at least bending the truth so I am far from convinced about anybody's case.
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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #149 on: January 29, 2021, 01:47:55 pm »

For a contract to make sense it should include a specific date  for performance . The contract copy I have seen with the EU posted on line has had the performance dates redacted.   This to me means that the EU have a problem with the contract dates and they are indulging in  some tricky footwork






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