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Author Topic: Restoration of Tribal  (Read 1459 times)

raflaunches

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Restoration of Tribal
« on: December 20, 2020, 11:51:18 am »

Well, weíve been busy getting projects done that have been hanging around for too long! Weíve all got them- weíre modellers after all :D
Considering that we are being paid to restore this beast it has taken the best part of a year to get to this stage.
We had intended to show the model at various shows over the year to show the progress but alas global pandemics got in the way!
This is a brass sheet model built to 1/64 scale of the Tribal class destroyer HMS Eskimo. The model was found on the Eskimoís successor the frigate version in one of the shipís bunks during one of the refits. The model is probably close to 60 years old and originally had a steam plant fitted but has long since disappeared.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2021, 08:48:12 pm »

The temptation to smooth those wrinkles out must have been hard to resist. It could have ended up like Father ted's Car prize given the difficult to access areas for drifts etc. She has come along well. Have you been commissioned to fit new steam plant in her?



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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2021, 08:54:22 pm »

Hi Ian- it certainly was- the perfectionist in us had to be tied up!
The owner unfortunately doesnít want a steam plant inside as they are complete beginners in the hobby so we have set up a standard two electric motor and speed controller layout. Weíve asked him if he would like a smoke generator or foggy unit to give that vintage look and we awaiting a response.
Found some more fittings in the spares drawer to add some missing detail such as signal lamps and little machine guns. Iíve got to make a basic Pom Pom gun to add to the middle superstructure. Dad is wiring up this week so when we eventually leave tier 3/4 we can have a test sail.
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2021, 05:20:56 am »

We had some trial runs to see what her handling is like... scary!!!!
Like a real destroyer she leans outwards in a turn but without the superstructure fitted it was leaning a lot. Our usual Robbe F14 Navy twin stick didnít achieve its usual results and the model will be converted to single stick throttle control. We have decided that she is sitting out the water too much so her freeboard is going to be reduced by raising the waterline with addition of lead ballast and of course a repaint for the boot topping. An enlarged rudder for sailing will be made to aid in turning. However she does have a good turn of speed and cuts through the water very majestically.
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derekwarner

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2021, 09:34:56 am »

Looks fine Nick....not a big sea and swell, but certainly very lumpy water  O0  .


I believe the latter is more uncomfortable for Crew & machinery with constant hammering  <*<  pretty sure you will understand this


What is the LOA, and current displacement?


Derek
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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2021, 03:18:53 pm »

I have to say "Snap". The attached really was a barn find in a hay loft which ended up with me about a decade or so ago. Its 69 inches long x 8 inches wide. All brass plate hull with various tin for parts of the superstructure.


Its loosely based on a "J" class destroyer and I have the plans that went with this build from MAP (old plans service) but in checking for scale the hull is either 8 inches too short or a couple of inches too wide. Again I believe it dates from the 1950's period and was intended for a steam engine hence the slightly wider beam and the construction materials used.


The similarity with yours is quote remarkable so I suspect theses plans were readily available to model engineers in the 50's and a good number were started. I have seen another two at the London Model Engineer exhibition again a good few years ago so there are a number about.


Its very nice to see one on the water under proper restoration.


Problem in loading the pics - pics to follow!


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2021, 03:25:09 pm »

Pics!
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2021, 03:37:02 pm »

Hi Geoff


Now that is amazing how similar they are. The dimensions are exactly the same and even the superstructures are extremely similar. This model was found on the frigate Eskimo during one of her refits by the father of the current owner who joined the RAF with my Dad! The model had a structure internally to support a steam engine which had been removed when we were asked to restore it. Since it carried the pennant for the Tribal class Eskimo and had a rough layout similar to Eskimo too we were asked to retain that identity. Iím glad itís not the only one in existence- I see a lot of similar features on the hull and certain structural bits that match too when we started the restoration.
Thanks for the pictures and I hope you get the chance to start on yours.
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Nick B

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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2021, 03:46:02 pm »

Nick,


I have other bits as well including the midships superstructure which is identical to yours and a whole box full of fittings! I'm convinced they are the same as the estimated age matches perfectly.


One day I'll get her on the water but as an exact scale modeler somehow it grates not being quite the right dimensions. Another part of me thinks what does it matter and the original builder would love to know that at some point she was sailing so maybe I'll have a go.


Cheers


Geoff
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2021, 03:54:31 pm »

Hi Geoff


That was my original thinking too being a scale modeller. We realised that we had to leave our exactness behind to create a sympathetic restoration of a model built by the original modeller. Itís very heavy on the water especially in the turns but it does look very rakish at full speed.
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Nick B

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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2021, 03:54:52 pm »

Blimey, what's the chance...peas in a pod  :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2021, 04:01:00 pm »

Blimey, what's the chance...peas in a pod  :-))




Itís amazing what comes out of the wood work... sorry brass work! :-))
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2021, 01:25:22 pm »

You have to take your hat off to modellers who go to the extremes of building in metal. Reading the chapter in a book about working in food tin and smothering everything in Fluxite and all the tools and soldering is amazing, but super skills required to master plate forming and cutting. Ironically, you build the hull twice! Once as a 'Bread and Butter' form and then again in your chosen metal.
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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 10:36:51 am »

Hopefully a better picture
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:30 am »

Hi Geoff


Thanks for the pictures- they are remarkably similar and even the brass work looks like it was done by the same modeller. Steve is currently making stanchions after our all day session getting the superstructure to remain attached to the deck! Weíve managed it and it looks quite good even if it needs some tidying up.
Steve is looking forward to his next project- 1/96 scale HMS Glorious as built- he has relinquished the little Seaplane tender Albatross to me as he was struggling with the smaller details and his hands arenít working as well to allow him to hold small brass fittings anymore. He likes big hulls so he can spend a while scratch building a light battlecruiser hull for us.
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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 04:34:00 pm »

Yes, Glorious, I've often though about that as a model - it would look great.


I feel inspired by the destroyer project and its got me thinking I really should do the same to my hull just for the fun of it.


Cheers


Geoff
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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 04:40:09 pm »

What engines did you use and was the deck fitted when you started the restoration work as mine only has the forecastle deck fitted, the rest is completely open and I have the same midships superstructure you have with half a pom-pom on it!


Mine doesn't have any prop shafts fitted so I was thinking of fitting them using fiberglass repair paste as I don't fancy trying to solder them in just in case the hull comes apart.


Cheers


Geoff
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2021, 06:02:48 pm »

Hi Geoff


We used two car heater motors and we used car fibreglass filler to attach the shafts as we thought the same thing regarding the soldering and the brass.
The deck was incredibly thin and was torn around the funnel area which lead us to believe that the original steam plant/engine was robbed by cutting the deck apart. The internal wooden frame structure had rotted out and left the metal supports for the deck but nothing else structurally. We had to tap some of the plates back into shape and carefully run some solder along the upper sections and fibreglassed in the inside just in case- we still had leaks after the fifth test ballast and leak check! The main area to suffer was the bow as it was hard to see if the solder was solid and had sealed the entire length of the plates. We also created a false floor to attach the motors to and any other radio equipment we put in.
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Nick B

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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2021, 07:17:58 pm »

Nice work so far Nick..... Next Geoff........sorry....heathen.....please do not ruin a model by blobbing resin in to fix the shafts, easy fix short term... great way to wreck a model ( sorry have seen it and rectified it many times) step back re look at the problem and learn to solder plates the original way they were done (before the blow lamps with small flames came along  :-)
IE as they did it wayyyyyyy back.........heat a piece of steel (pointed of chamfered end)  1/4 x 1/4 cherry red and use as a giant soldering iron....(unless of course you have a giant soldering iron O0 )


Just my opinion.......important thing is we keep the models going  :-))
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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2021, 11:18:35 pm »

Glorious? Nice project. Mind you, a what if Furious as completed with edge of technology 18inch guns would be my choice :)


For these Large light Cruisers (catchy name) I have evidence to suggest that the hull was the same as for the Renowns but with less armour. The Battle Cruisers book has layouts towards the back and I am pretty sure that if Steve has problems getting hold of lines for the Glorious, he might get more info for the Renowns and develop from that.


That is an 'If' though. The barbette and bridge positioning are different obviously, but what a sleek model she is going to be!


I want to see cut by cut coverage of this beauty Nick and Steve. :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 11:34:09 pm »

Glorious? Nice project. Mind you, a what if Furious as completed with edge of technology 18inch guns would be my choice :)


For these Large light Cruisers (catchy name) I have evidence to suggest that the hull was the same as for the Renowns but with less armour. The Battle Cruisers book has layouts towards the back and I am pretty sure that if Steve has problems getting hold of lines for the Glorious, he might get more info for the Renowns and develop from that.


That is an 'If' though. The barbette and bridge positioning are different obviously, but what a sleek model she is going to be!


I want to see cut by cut coverage of this beauty Nick and Steve. :-))


A little taster for you Ian...
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Nick B

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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2021, 04:12:13 pm »

Some further pictures of my J class including the fittings which were in a tin box!


Cheers


Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2021, 04:24:55 pm »

These were exquisite models. The pompoms are very well done given their age. Someone was as into his details as his over all model.


I a excited now Nick  %% :D %% :D
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Geoff

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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2021, 03:38:25 pm »

I did a search and have found the original plans from MAP that I purchased many years ago which clearly show the metal construction and plate lines. Mine show it to be Javelin but whilst the hull may be the same yours has clearly been modelled on a Tribal class as the gun houses are a different shape from the plans as is the aft superstructure as mine does not have a blast screen. Javelin also only had one funnel and only three turrets two forward and one aft on top of the superstructure. She was a cheaper version and was good for 32 knots at full load so slower than the Tribals.


I watch with eager interest for further updates!


Cheers


Geoff
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Re: Restoration of Tribal
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2021, 04:21:52 pm »

Question - Is your forward superstructure base deeper than the aft superstructure base. The 1950's plans show this as does my model but other plans seem to show the bases should be the same height?


I'm still trying to work out what to do with it as on the one hand there are, due to the age of the plans, a lot of inaccuracies built in to the superstructure and turrets but it would be nice to finish it off in the same style as the original builder, but then again if I just used the hull I could build a more accurate superstructure and turrets!


Don't know what to consider!


Cheers


Geoff
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