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Author Topic: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.  (Read 1727 times)

785boats

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Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« on: December 25, 2020, 09:19:51 am »

Hi there.
Although I'm new to this forum, I have been building boats for a while.
I had been looking around for a different type of project for my next build.Well here's the most different boat that I have ever seen. Especially for a warship. So of course, even though I have other unfinished models lying around, I had to make a start on this one. A round Russian gunship from 1873, the Novgorod.
Just thought I'd share the build here:   https://www.google.com/search?q=russ...LqeBuQYKiTshLM ( https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3719411-Russian-Novgorod )

What really sparked my interest was a little 1:200 scale kit I saw on ebay. only 150mm ( 6" ) in diameter, but complete with motors props & drive shafts.I bought the kit with the intent to use it, along with photos & line drawings on the web, to scale up some plans to 1:48 scale which ends up being 640mm in diameter. The kit arrived the other day so I've taken some measurements and started work on it. The lazer etched wooden decking and the etched brass railings are exquisite.

I made a start on it a couple of nights ago. I cut a disk for the bottom of the hull from some old scrap 1/16" ply veneer.Then strengthened it with some 1/4" sq bass wood. When the hull is all planked, I'll add another disk on top to both strengthen it and to have a base to mount all the gear on to. I've cut out a template for the ribs. Just need to make the other 15 of them now.

I notched them out for some 1/8"sq stringers to run around the hull and then I'll just do some vertical planking over them with some 1/16" ply. Three stringers on the curve and one around the top where the deck will be fitted. This is going to be the strangest boat I've ever built. It won't be a quick build but it will be interesting.

Then some 1.5mm bass wood was used for stringers around the hull. Two layers laminated to make them 3mm thick. I couldn't find any 1/8"sq bass or spruce at the model shop.
All held together with CA glue.

Now it's time to start cutting the vertical planks
But I'm off to Tasmania tomorrow to spend some time with my family, so I won't get anything done for a while.

Cheers.
Paul.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2020, 09:46:38 am »


Nice!   :-))

Are the ribs cut out by hand?
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2020, 05:19:52 pm »

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ballastanksian

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2020, 04:21:08 pm »

That is a super project and one that is challenging to make water tight and ballast properly as the hull form is ever so bouyant.
Being derived from the principle of a coastal defence monitor it has very low freeboard.


It will 'wow' all those who see the model sail though, and you can have fun learning how to control it given its directional randomness  :D


I have one of about the same size that I started to restore but havn't got much further with it in the last two years.
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2020, 07:45:50 pm »

I love this, and it really is different, keep up the fine work, I will be following with interest
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2020, 08:10:42 pm »

Hi ballastanksian.
It's good to see that there are other models out there. No doubt I will need some guidance here & there. So I hope you can help.
As the hull took shape on the board, l thought to myself that l should have reduced the draught a fair bit to make it easier to ballast down to the waterline. Oh well, l've got plenty of lead blocks that l use in some of my bigger boats.
I plan to make the whole deck removable, but l'm still trying to figure out how to seal it against the wash that will come over the sides, bow, stern etc. I'd be interested to know how you kept the water out.
As for control. I just intend to do what the full size ship did.
I will control each bank of 3 motors with a separate esc & operate them like tank steering with a 4channel tx.
We'll see how that works out.


I Would love to see some pics of your model. Feel free to post them on this thread if you want. Or is there a link you can post to a site with them on it?


Cheers.
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 08:21:28 pm »

I love this, and it really is different, keep up the fine work, I will be following with interest


Hi Phil.
It would be nice to fit some little steam engines in there for you steam guys and authenticity, but that is way beyond my capabilities. :-)
It will be electric motors for me.
Cheers.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2020, 03:23:08 pm »

I started a topic a couple of years back that showed progress up to March 2019 ish. The original deck was full diameter which I thought worrisome and so cut a ring from the edge and stuck it to the hull.


The plan was/is to use silicone tube as a gasket, and some form of retainers to hold the deck down onto the gasket creating a water tight seal. Folk on here suggested a grease seal, and I was going to try some silicone grease as well to make sure the seal was as good as possible. I found some drawings of the krupp guns and mounts and from these turned masters of the breech and barrel. I have the mould to hand if you want a resin set for a few quid? The mounts are Vavasseur.


I did start adding lead ballast under the hull but the fibreglass was too coarse and so it looks rubbish. It will need some serious sanding at the very least  :((


The topic is in the Warships section. I have a big small scale project that I want to complete first and then will get dabbling with the big boats in the future.
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2020, 01:01:28 am »

Thanks for the info.
I read through your thread, and have filed away a few ideas in the grey matter for when the time comes..

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2020, 05:23:18 am »

I started a topic a couple of years back that showed progress up to March 2019 ish. The original deck was full diameter which I thought worrisome and so cut a ring from the edge and stuck it to the hull.

The topic is in the Warships section. I have a big small scale project that I want to complete first and then will get dabbling with the big boats in the future.


FYI:  https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57153.msg594552.html#msg594552

 
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2020, 11:30:44 am »

Thanks Martin.
Yes, that's the thread l read through.
I had already planned on leaving a ring around the edge.
Now l think l'll add a sort of a gutter around it and a ring around the edge of the deck that fits down into it, and use silicone to make a gasket as described in the thread
That should do the trick.
Cheers.
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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2020, 12:25:05 pm »


I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!

Wikipeadia:

The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career



Might build one.... one day....

 Found a hull already! -
https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320
 
 
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Big Ada

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2020, 03:20:44 pm »

Quote
Found a hull already! - https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320
 

Or an up turned Hanging basket ?.
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2020, 12:03:07 am »


I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!

Wikipeadia:

The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career

Might build one.... one day....

 Found a hull already! -
https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320


Certainly some heavy plating. A lot of weight there.
I've been thinking about adding lead sheeting all around the inside of the hull & on the floor, to add some weight, so l won't need to add so much ballast when l launch it.
This is one hull that won't mind being built heavy.

That bowl looks like a good candidate for the hull.
.
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JimG

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2020, 12:05:10 pm »


I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!

Wikipeadia:

The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career

The same principle as HMS Warrior, backing with teak makes the armour stronger but with less weight than thicker iron. The armour plate was wrought iron not steel so was much weaker than later steel armour. The wikipedia article didn't make clear if the inner hull was iron like the Warrior.
Jim
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Geoff

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2020, 05:44:32 pm »

A slight correction here if I may - the teak backing actually acted as a shock absorber and mitigated fragments of the armor flying off, so not so much added strength but to minimize fragmentation damage. This process was continued certainly through WW1 and pretty sure WW2 as well on heavy armor. Thin armor was a different structure and dis not have the teak backing.


I'm looking forwards to progress on this interesting model. Interesting hull ideas though - and one more what about a large round wooden bowl! I think you will probably just have to plank it but I have no idea how you do a round hull - sounds fun!


Cheers


Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2020, 07:25:01 pm »

I recall reading that the hull framework was iron like Warrior with armour backed by teak.
 I turned my original Novgorod hull from a big disk of MDF at college on the slowest speed as the lathe rocked otherwise  :embarrassed:
 A technician suggested I put it up a notch but after trying one speed up, it was too dangerous.
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Akira

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2021, 01:34:24 pm »

A fare number of Bubbleheads( sub guys) make hatch/compartment gaskets using silicon. The silicon is spread onto the
fixed surface and the "hatch" ,which has been sealed smooth, is well coated with wax or tightly wrapped in plastic wrap, and set into position. It is weighted down or held down with the fixing devices( screws) until the silicon is well set. The hatch is remove, the plastic removed and the hatch now has a custom gasket.
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2021, 08:15:53 pm »

Sorry for the lack of replies on my part, but l am on holidays down in Tasmania at the moment. Busy days & nights.
It will be another week before l can do any more work on the hull too.

Some great info there guys. Thanks for that.

Akira.
That is the method l intend to use for the seal.

Cheers.


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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2021, 09:39:48 pm »

Well I've made it back home on Friday night from my holiday down to Tasmania. It was great to see the family again.
So yesterday I cut and glued a few planks onto the framework.
They were cut to 15mm at one end and 13mm at the other. Then they needed to be sanded a bit narrower at the smaller end leaving a bowed edge, from about the center of the planks, so that the sides married to each other as they curved around the 90 degree bend.
I also cut them such that the grain of the outside layers of the ply was across the plank, to make them easier to bend around the framework with a lot less tension on them.
I just used thick CA glue to fix them in place. Still picking the dried glue off my finger tips. :D
To try and make sure that the rim stayed circular, I did two panels opposite each other first. Then a pair at 90 degrees to those two. Then repeated the process for the next 4 panels.
It worked because the rim is still circular.
Here are a few pics.




 


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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2021, 10:38:26 pm »

 
Looking good!   :-))
 
  What wood are you using?

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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2021, 08:52:27 am »

Thanks Martin.
The wood is 1/16" birch aircraft ply.
I have plenty left over from other projects. Mainly the 1/8 scale hydroplanes that I build.
Cheers.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2021, 10:53:31 pm »

Nice work!
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785boats

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2021, 08:55:22 pm »

Thanks for the compliment ballastanksian.



I finished the planking over the last few evenings. Just a bit of filling and a layer of fiberglass needed to finish it off.
The drive shafts, props, & the motors/gearboxes have arrived too.
The props were the closest I could find that looked like the original shape. But man they need some serious balancing. Even spinning the shaft in my hand, with a quick twist of the shaft, sets up some serious wobble
The motor/gearboxes will only be spinning at around 340 rpm but 6 of them all vibrating at once won't be good.


The motors.
https://www.banggood.com/Chihai-DC-7_4V-340rpm-550rpm-Reduction-Motor-DC-Geared-Motor-p-1552802.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=513819


The props.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Shaft-4-Blades-Metal-Propeller-Prop-44mm-55mm-60mm-for-Scale-RC-Boat-Marine/153113660401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452958879776&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


The shafts.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Drive-Shaft-Sleeve-4-Blade-Propeller-Joint-Assemble-Kit-for-RC-Boat-Marine/152756758984?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452456787562&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Novgorod. A Round Russian Monitor.
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 09:58:18 pm »


Those motors seem to be reminded of this for some reason   :} 
......   https://youtu.be/Rb5g-6uBw-A?t=558


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