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Author Topic: Building Annie 2  (Read 6859 times)

peterpan

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Building Annie 2
« on: January 07, 2021, 10:47:35 am »

 Hi Started Building Annie thread but immediately had photo problems. All sorted now (I hope) so starting again with Building Annie 2
 I am building the Bearospace Schooner Annie which has brought me back to the forum for help after some years away and I noticed references to this boat in a number of posts so with lockdown and weather restricting the build a bit I thought I would post some of my progress.
First a disclaimer . Although for 50 + years I refurbished and sailed various boats (sail and power) from 7m to 36m, both as owner and delivery skipper, I am not an experienced model maker in the class of a lot of build posts on the forum. Since 2013 I have carried on my passion for boats by occasionally building models, mostly from plans in wood, with some reasonable results (with much help from MBM members) but my projects tend to be quit a long process in how to turn my actual experience into a reasonable build without the modelling experience.
The object of the post is not to show you how its done but to show some of the difficulties I am having along the way, how I am dealing with them and perhaps get some thoughts from the experts.
So why did I choose Annie. 
Two years ago I discovered RC Yacht racing and got hooked racing a RG65 and rebuilding and racing an older IOM (another case of, “with my experience this will be a doddle”....not) and I now wanted to build a RC classic sailing yacht and Annie ticked all the boxes. Its a large scale, easier for older fingers. The hull is a simpler ply construction (I thought), no building half models to produce frames or hours/weeks of double planking  . It has the potential to add detail on the basic build. There is a lot of information out there and great support from the designer Gary Webb. It fits in my car. All at a cost that I could afford to fail at should I not finish it for any  hopefully I will actually get to sail it.
My main reservations were the draft and the all up weight, particularly with regard to launching and recovering the boat and the depth of sailing waters that are available reasonably close. I emailed Gary Webb and we discussed reducing the draft (more later)and this contact with him gave me confidence to give it a go,
I bought the plans for Annie in Aug 2019 and began the build in early Sept 2019.  I am now about 30% of the way .
Pic 2 was taken in Nov 2020 alongside my one meter IOM but don’t be fooled by the apparent paint job. Its not good, I am still working on it, More latter.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2021, 10:51:05 am »

 My very first problem was ply thickness. The plans call for 2,5 mm which is widely available in large sheets in the states for lining doors. The design requires full length hull panels of at least 58 inch and the thinnest I could find locally to meet this was 4mm. My main concern was the increase in weigh and its effect on draft and balance. I exchanged emails with Gary Webb and we resolved these  concerns so I bought the thicker ply and started Pic 2 but it did cause some build problems.
The hull panels are a gentle curve in one direction and were not to much of a problem to bend to shape,but the method of initial tacking them all in place was not strong enough to hold the thicker ply particularly at the panel joints and the frames twisted.
At this stage it is vital that the keel box and the two frames supporting it are absolutely central and parallel with the hull if the boat to sail straight and so I temporally screwed the keel box into the frames Pic 3 (sorry don’t have any pics of the boxes construction but it is an internally fibre glassed very strong box) and used this to set out and reinforce the rest of the frames and hull panels. Pic  4/5. I also used the deck panel and lots of measuring to help make sure the hull was straight and true. Pic 6.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2021, 10:54:15 am »

 The ply thickness also meant the panel joints had to be chamfered to give a strong joint. This was a long job getting panel edges to sit flush but was worth it making a very strong hull and avoiding lots of external filler. eventually I  could remove the keel box and have a true and straight. Pic 7  and completed internal epoxy fillets  Pic 8.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 10:56:11 am »

 The inside of the hull and underside of deck then received  4 coats of penetrating epoxy sealer Pic 9 followed by 3 coats of waterproof paint Pic 10
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mrzippy

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 02:16:55 pm »

Hi peterpan,
I've thought about building one of Gary's designs many times over the years and will follow your build with interest,
he has a nice little setup and life style aboard his boat - I think his great videos go a long way to selling his products.

How did you get on with the plans?  pdf printed out by a printshop or good old fashioned paper plans -
if the latter did you get clobbered for dreaded import taxes etc??
regards Paul
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2021, 02:29:24 pm »

Peter

You seem to have your photo problem well under control and the new larger size photos are much easier to look at on my screen. This is going to be a lovely model.

What is the white product that have you faired the joints with? If it is epoxy + ??

How much epoxy do you reckon that you will need to build the model? I can imagine that it is quite a lot!
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2021, 02:51:09 pm »

 Hi Paul. I got the PDF plans.
Did have bit of a problem getting them printed because of the size. In the end had to go to printer that printed shop signs. Bit expensive but was printed on a thicker material which made great templets
Cheers Peter
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2021, 03:31:22 pm »

 Hi Tug
Yes, the whole saga of the photos was well worth the effort. Thanks again.
The filer is two pot epoxy and you have spotted something that took me a bit by surprise. I have used International Watertight Epoxy Filler because I know the products from the marine world It is the best but expensive. Initially bought the smallest 125ml pack and this has done what you see in the photos plus a bit left but went a bit over the top to ensure the thick ply panel joints were strong as there will be twist pressure on the hull when sailing. I will have to get more particularly for the rudder construction so will be checking what is best when I get to it.
 Cheers peter
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2021, 12:34:56 pm »

5 coats of penertrating epoxy sealer to the hull. Pic 11 and 12
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2021, 05:41:47 pm »

 At this stage I decided I would have a look at setting up the RC. 
I decided I would initially build the forward pully assembly and the sail winch housing using scrap materials and once I had the system installed and working would rebuild them when it comes to the final installation with fairleads through deck sheets etc. Pic 13/14/15
I bought the recommended sail winch HiTec HS-785HB from HobbyKing. I already use a Flysky radio transmitter for my racing yachts 6 channels basically designed for helicopter flying but extremely good value . I only use 2 of the 6 channels but I can add up to twenty boats and most important I can adjust the sail winch travel.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2021, 05:45:57 pm »

 The rudder servo is a straight forward fit Pic 16.
With a bit of adjustment the winch/pully system for the 3 sail sheets worked fine Pic 17/18
Getting a suitable  forward pully proved a bit difficult, standard larger sized pulleys are meant for thicker cord not the braided twine I am using . I have realized that building a model of this size means not sourcing items/materials from model shops but more from DIY suppliers. In normal times a trip to the local ironmongers and actually handling before you buy would be fine but in these on line only times your not sure it is suitable until it arrives. I now have an assortment of pulleys.
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Geoff

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2021, 11:58:30 am »

Coming along nicely - I can't tell from the pictures but is the forward pulley spring tensioned to keep the cord taught? Assume there are several wraps round the winch pulley so it pays out and pulls in to its full travel.


Typically one side (output) of the pulley has all the sail cords attached so that no matter what they are pulling directly on the pulley with the other side sprung loaded to ensure the cable does not come off the pulley.


I use copper tube for goose neck pipes to take the actual sail cords from the pulley rope to get them above decks and this works well.


Look forward to further updates.


Cheers


Geoff
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2021, 10:35:18 am »

 Hi Geoff Thank you for the post.
Gary Webb uses various applications of this system in his boat designs and is the first to say “ its one way of doing it”.
This is one of those systems that when you set it up makes sense but is a bit long winded to describe, but is very good for controlling multiple sails.
There is no tensioner on the forward pully, the tension to the winch cord  is applied by sliding the winch housing back on the fixing slots and locking it down. ( I will be building more substantial winch and pully housings for final installation)
There is a double pully on the winch. The winch cord goes from the bottom groove( with enough turns to travel distance  from the winch to the forward pully) around the forward pully and back to the top groove of the winch pully.
This is now a continues loop which winds from bottom groove via the forward pully to top groove clockwise and back from top groove to bottom anticlockwise so there can be no slippage. Also when activating the winch clockwise the side of the loop from winch to forward pully is running towards the front of the boat and from forward pully to winch is running toward the back of the boat.
This allows you to control multiple sails by bringing the sheets through the deck at the back of the boat and attaching them, close to the winch, to the loop running from winch towards the forward pully and also through the deck at the front of the boat and attaching them close to the forward pully on the other side of the loop running from the pully to the winch. This means all of the sails are sheeted in or let out at the same time.
I have to say I am not happy that the forward pully I have will not let the loop cord slip off and will have to find something with more of a V grove ( if anyone knows where I can get one ) and /or a way of guiding the loop around the pully. Which brings me to copper tube.
I am currently a few posts away from getting up to date but am currently working on the problems raised above and will be using copper tube to guide and contain the running rigging. Pic 21/22
 
Cheers Peter
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2021, 11:42:49 am »

 


 
Moving on to the deck the question of permanently fixing the deck I think needs to be kept in mind from the start. The build instructions eventually call for the deck to be securely epoxied  into the hull. I have always been nervous of this. The RC system in sailing boats works hard and under some strain and will inevitably have failures which will have to be addressed on a fairly regular basis


Now that I have seen the RC installed I am sure I will want much better access than the deck openings provide, particularly to the forward pully,  Exactly how I will achieve this I will decide as the deck build proceeds. Pic 20 was taken further on in the build but shows the problem
 
There has been discussion on removable decks on other forums.  However I think this is not just a question of access, with a heavy boat like this under sail the hull/deck joint needs to be strong and water/leak proof
 
When building the hull with the thicker ply I did add some blocks to enable me to screw the deck in place, not only to ensure the hull shape was correct but to maintain the camber of the deck. This system could be developed and fixing a removable deck is possible but making it waterproof as well is another thing. Another option would be to enlarge the hatches but I will have to have the below deck rc/sheeting system in place first to see if this would work.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2021, 05:07:12 pm »

 Building the basic cabin and hatch sides are simple but when cutting the holes for portholes I realised that I needed to consider the subject of scale for these and any other deck fittings I may decide to add later. Pic 23. These were some eyelets I was thinking of using but decided against.
 We are of course not building a scale model but a schooner rigged model RC sail boat that ends up 58 inch long and actually sails, however we do need to have a sense of proportion to make the finished model look right. In the beginning I did intend to add detail but now I think the answer is not to try and add a lot of different items on the deck, which would highlight the problem.
The one thing that I will consider is a steering position as its the first thing I noticed was missing.
 Schooners of this type could have been between 40ft and 80ft. I know Gary Webb thinks in terms of 1:12 with his designs and is simple to work to and makes the boat 58 ft o/all so I am going to do the same.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2021, 05:10:00 pm »

 I was able to get outside to continue the cabin and hold construction Pic 24  so took the opportunity to trail fit the masts to check the keel blocks and deck holes gave the correct rake Pics 25,26.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2021, 11:39:06 am »

 June 2020 So far so good. I am happy that I have the hull and deck construction completed Pics 27/28
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2021, 05:10:06 pm »

 Next decking
A lot of members including Gary Webb get great results staining and drawing planking lines on decks but I always intended to plank mine. However, planking with caulking lines raises the scale problem again so I have cheated a bit. I had some spruce strips which have slightly different grain on each side which if laid alternately gives a planked look. Pic 29.
I am not sure how this will turn out when deck has been treated with clear epoxy sealer but it will give a good surface and if I don’t like it I can re-do it once I know she sails OK. So started Pic 30
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 05:14:21 pm »

 I had a small amount of mahogany strip and couldn’t resist using it (been looking at to many J Class builds). Again if I don’t like it I can modify it later. Pic 31/32/33/34
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2021, 06:00:21 pm »

 
This just about brings me up to date on where I am on the deck as at today. I have started on through deck fittings Pic 35/36/37.
Still to do. Build hatches and cabin/hold roofs. Sort out through deck fittings for sail sheets and hull/deck fixings.
But,next will cover the hull painting saga.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2021, 06:04:44 pm »

Sorry post came out so small
 This just about brings me up to date on where I am on the deck as at today. I have started on through deck fittings Pic 35/36/37 above

Still to do. Build hatches and cabin/hold roofs. Sort out through deck fittings for sail sheets and hull/deck fixings but next will cover the  hull paiting saga.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2021, 03:33:19 pm »

 Hull painting.

I have little experience of painting models or of spray painting. My previous models have been planked and varnished which has been applied by brush using marine varnish. Pic 37. Where I have tried to use modelling paint in the past, I have always had problems so approached painting this large hull with some dread.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2021, 03:36:29 pm »

 I started the hull painting in Sept 2020. I have access to a large barn with overhead infrared heaters and I decided to use Halford’s spray cans for all painting.
The hull had been sealed with penetrating epoxy sealer and I gently rubbed this down and it looked like a smooth surface.
I then put 4 coats of filler primer on. Pic 38 

This revealed a lot of the ply grain. I spoke to a contact who uses these spry cans a lot and he advised I just need to keep rubbing down and adding more coats finishing with wet and dry. This I did and got what appeared to be  good surface with a slight sheen and prepared to paint below the water line. Pic 39/40 Note aluminium fin. More latter.
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Capt Podge

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2021, 04:32:05 pm »

Yeah, rubbing down can be such a pain but well worth it in the end.
She's looking sleek even at this stage.
Nice work. :-))

Regards,
Ray.
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peterpan

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Re: Building Annie 2
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2021, 05:11:40 pm »

Thanks Ray but looks can be deceiving.I began with the bottom (antifoul). On the can it said this was Flat Red ?? but this was the least of my problems. As you can see from Pic 41 after numerous coats of filler primmer and hours of work and now 4 coats of red paint the graining was awful.
At this point I abandoned the red and looked at the white topsides. They looked smooth before I applied paint, but after putting on 4 coats of white, it was obvious, the ply should have had a lot more preparation and I had a big problem. Pic 42.
In my defence at each stage of the preparation I had continued rubbing down and applying additional coats to fill the grain.
I could only think of three options. Strip it back and start again. Accept it as an RC model of a working boat and move on. Try to rescue it.
I decided to try a rescue.


 
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