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Author Topic: Bismark drive system  (Read 1806 times)

XS850

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Bismark drive system
« on: January 20, 2021, 05:29:07 pm »

Can I have some advice with queries on motors/esc/props for a 1:200 Hachette Bismark which I’m just starting to restore/complete as a working model (propulsion & steering only) please?


This was bought as part built with all the magazines/parts plus the Hachette/Amati recommended RC & propulsion  system - 2 x Speed 400, 2 x 2:1 Gearboxes, 1 x Navy V40R esc & 30mm plastic props (all Graupner).

[size=78%]On their own there’s nothing wrong with installing this as is, but, I want to keep the scale rudders and “mix” the motors.  The esc is a bit overkill for a single motor and a second one is no longer available, I don’t like gearboxes and would like go direct drive with the motors at 6v with 2 x Mtronics marine 20 esc, a W tail mixer & running 30mm brass 3 bladed props. RC will be my Spectrum DX6i.[/size]


[size=78%]So, my query is - are the motors & props “right” for this combination (direct drive), are they (to my mind) way too powerful (rpm wise) and am I best keeping the drive through the gearboxes which I don’t like? My preference is for direct drive so any ideas what motors would be more suitable (if any)? I do like to try to keep a scale speed if I can and the DX6i allows a fair adjustment in speed control to restrict this so something a little bit too powerful isn’t a problem I think.[/size]

Bruce
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Stan

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2021, 06:22:42 pm »

This may help with your installation the picture show motors fitted in my 1/200 scale Missouri. I have also sent you a p/m the Bismarck will be 3 shafts


Stan.
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XS850

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 07:03:46 pm »

Thanks Stan - I’m only going to be running outer props with the third as a free running “dummy”, it’d be a “struggle” to get a third propshaft into the hull as it is now without too much hacking about around the keel area.
Bruce
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2021, 07:13:42 pm »

Whlie it might be difficult to fit a centre prop, that is the one that will bear directly on the rudder and be the greatest influence on the steering.

Colin
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Stan

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2021, 07:37:54 pm »

Hi Bruce did you get my PM?  No problems with the ESC or mixer. What size prop shafts are you using 4mm 2mm

Stan




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cos918

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2021, 07:55:19 pm »

Its up to you if you fit the centre prop or not. Keeping a scale rudder that is only in line with the centre prop. Steering will be affected.
It would be best going for 3 powered props.
If you up your voltage to 7.4v you cna run lipos which offer very good power for very little weight.
John
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Stan

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2021, 08:43:08 pm »

HI Bruce there will be a way to fit the third motor. When stared on the Missouri I was told no way can you fit shafts in the fairings of the inner props.  This had be done because the wash from these props goes straight over the rudders. Without these props the model would never turn easily. To answer your questions I would look at using M F A 385 motors no gearboxes the E S C are fine along with the mixer props seem fine.


Just to give you technical info for the speed 400 motors


Stall  current 21 amps per motor. N load speed at 7.2 volts 16.400 rpm. These motors may be to fast for this model but you can of course control this with your controllers. Fitting lower value  fuses will of course protect both your motors and you controllers.


Stan
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Shipmate60

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2021, 09:16:29 pm »

I have the Aeronaught 1/200 Bismark.
She runs on 3 x 385 motors on 7.2 volts. Space isnt a probloem but the centre motor does give better steering with her 2 rudders.


Bob
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Stan

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2021, 09:41:43 pm »

 HI prop shop props fitted on my 1/200 scale Yamato thank for our conversation this evening. The 385 motors will be fine along with prop shop props. thank you Shipmate 60 for your input also.


Stan.


https://www.mfacomodrills.com/
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Shipmate60

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2021, 10:07:25 pm »

I can run mine on 8.4 volts but way too fast.


Bob
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XS850

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2021, 02:59:52 pm »

Many thanks to Stan for the very helpfull phone call and advice on here - it’s helped me in the route to go with 385 motors rather than the speed 400’s, smaller propshafts (mine are 4mm) and prop supplier info.


Also thanks for the advice from others - I’m reassessing the 3rd prop drive, I did think with twin props and mixer this would give reasonable steering control but appreciate the wash from a centre prop will help enormously in steering, so with smaller 2mm shafts I’m probably going to fit it.  Our boat pond isn’t enormous (although bigger than a lot of council ones) so more manoeuvrability would be a great help - especially when I think of the size of this thing!


Bruce
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Stan

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2021, 09:30:58 am »

Hi glad you have got the motors sorted out hope all goes well .




Stan
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XS850

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BEC Query
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2021, 02:57:37 pm »

Hope one of the “electrical” gurus can advise please?
I’m installing electrics into a Bismarck, 1 receiver, 3 ESC, 1 rudder servo & 4 turret servos controlled by a Forge Electronics Servo Controller.  I am using 4x6v 1A sla batteries paralleled into an Action P102 with 5v BEC.  This board supplies all power to 1 Action P94 dual ESC/mixer to 2 outer motors and 1 Mtroniks Viper marine 10 for 1 centre motor.
To reduce the “load” on the P102 BEC (rated just over 1A and feeding the receiver), I want to use another supply to run the 4 turret servos & Servo Controller (preferably BEC rather than separate battery).  The 5v BEC from the Viper ESC is disconnected, is it feasible to use this BEC to run the turret servos?
From the Viper I’m thinking to use the neg (black) as a common linked to each BEC, the pos (red) as standalone  and the signal (yellow) from receiver to feed the Servo Controller/servos.
Can anyone suggest if this will cause any problems please?
Bruce
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malcolmfrary

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Re: BEC Query
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2021, 06:11:24 pm »

The only problem is remembering what is powered by which.  An accurate schematic is needed for the future, because details will be forgotten.
Unless the ballast is really needed, a collection of 6 volt NiMH is better.  Far easier to look after.
All ESCs that have a built in BEC draw their control power from that, as well as offering it to the red servo wire.  ESCs not so equipped need to keep the red wire connection.
It is important to remember to switch everything off at close of play.  I have memories of a tug with two ESCs, each with a black switch on a black background, one just out of easy view.  A slowly, but thoroughly, discharging battery seemed to be the cause of lots of mystery symptoms, such as eletronic bits that should have remembered settings, forgetting them.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2021, 03:01:26 pm »



My internals.
7.2 volts about right speed, 8.4 volts a speedboat!

Bob
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XS850

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Re: Bismark drive system
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2021, 10:14:53 am »

Thank you to Stan for the phone conversation - advising best not to use the “spare” BEC for additional power to servos. Ordered a stand-alone BEC 5a from Action to power all electronics.

Thanks also to the other responses - batteries are what I had spare on the shelf (originally in Titanic but too unstable with them) and fit/weigh perfectly for Bismarck - just sits at waterline with small additional weight to trim.
Starting at 6v I can try it out and gives me the option to easily move up to 7.2v if speed is unsuitable!
Bruce
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