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Author Topic: silver solder issues  (Read 627 times)

Trucker

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silver solder issues
« on: February 06, 2021, 04:20:49 pm »

hi all
not sure if starting a new chat is the right thing, because the issue might be related to the blow torch question, so, ive been soldering today and had nothing but problems, main issue im seeing is the brass tube does not seem to go cherry red, and the solder seems to just melt and sit in a blob and does not appear to spread around the joint, can any one suggest why this is happening.. ive cleaned all the joints and used the flux that came with the solder i ordered.


Trucker  :(( :((
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Baldrick

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2021, 04:29:14 pm »

hi all
not sure if starting a new chat is the right thing, because the issue might be related to the blow torch question, so, ive been soldering today and had nothing but problems, main issue im seeing is the brass tube does not seem to go cherry red, and the solder seems to just melt and sit in a blob and does not appear to spread around the joint, can any one suggest why this is happening.. ive cleaned all the joints and used the flux that came with the solder i ordered.


Trucker  :(( :((


  Can I ask what size brass tube is it , what is the gun you are trying to heat it with and how are you supporting the item during the process ?
see also.basic-silver-soldering.asp
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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 04:57:14 pm »

im using 3mm OD brass tube, the work was placed on one of those heat blocks, sorry, not sure of there correct name, to keep the work upright used an old file and the piece im trying to solder was held with a modelers extra had tool, my heat source is a ebay torch the kind used in the kitchen with swan butane gas.


Trucker
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Mark T

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 05:10:46 pm »

Hi Trucker - I don't think you're getting the part hot enough.  I use something like this with a can of propane/butane mix for small parts


https://www.diy.com/departments/gosystem-blow-torch-gb2070h/257243_BQ.prd


Also if you are holding the parts in place with anything metal; these metal parts will steal the heat too.  So more heat and less holding with metal parts and you're there. Also do not use sand paper or emery cloth to clean the parts as this causes contamination.  Only use steel wool and you will get a nice clean joint that solders very easily

Mark T

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 05:20:58 pm »

Also I should have said I use this for ease


https://www.cupalloys.co.uk/store/455-Silver-Solder-Paste-10g-Syringe-p276411691


No separate flux - just clean the joint - squeeze a bit on and heat.  Thats it job done  :-)

tonyH

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 06:02:07 pm »

It's amazing how much heat can be lost with the holders. If you've got a bit of hardwood ply, sandwich the workpiece between two bits of wood and then in the holder. It just keeps the heat in. Also, how thick is the solder because that can draw heat away as well. I use the same type mini blow lamp as you and I cut a 4inch length of the 1-1.5mm solder piece, drill a hole down the centre of a dowel handle and push the solder into that. Again, saves heat. You will char the dowel but, so what?

It will work, as will the paste, but clean, flux, I use the powder mixed to paste with water, and heat and then just touch with the solder, I normally dip the tip into the flux paste, and it will either go or not go. If not, it's not hot enough.
It can be a challenge but keep at it. You'll find you'll need it again and again.
Good Luck

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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 06:15:15 pm »

guys, thanks for your help, sand paper and emery cloth have been my choice to clean before fluxing, so will change that, the solder is low melt probably not even 1mm thick, going to have to improve the method i use to hold the work then have another go, is it possible to unbond the work and redo,


Trucker
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Mark T

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2021, 06:22:33 pm »

Yep just get it nice and hot and pull it apart whilst still glowing. Just mind your fingers and use some pliers

Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2021, 06:41:42 pm »

thanks guys  :-)) :-)) as its probably going to snow tomorrow here in Ditton i guess i can warm up in shed having another bash at soldering


Trucker
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john44

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 08:59:43 pm »

The work is not getting hot enough, I had the same trouble using the small profane/ lighter fuel torch
for silver soldering/ brazing I use MAP gass canister and a screw on torch with a small nozzle.
No problem at all you just have to be careful and move the heat away so you don’t melt what you are trying to solder.


John
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Jerry C

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2021, 11:21:05 pm »

My hands are getting shaky with age so I don’t apply the solder by hand if possible, instead I clean the parts with Scotchbrite, apply flux to both parts and assemble. Then I make a small ring of solder and slide it onto the joint. I have a 12” square paving slab onto which i place the parts in and two smaller pieces which I place behind the parts in a V shape. This contains the heat from the torch. Then I apply the heat. The parts heat up, the solder melts and a few seconds later it flows around and into the joint. Remove heat and let the parts cool. I soldered a whole boiler with 21 tubes in it using this method. No wastes or solder in the wrong places. Very neat and economical. See my YouTube channel “ captainpaxo1”, start to finish 12 minutes heating each end. Needed a big burner for that one





Jerry C.

tonyH

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2021, 10:36:28 am »

Once you've succeeded in joining the bits, you may want to finish the job by pickling the piece in a mild acid. This removes flux remains and generally tidies up the finish. I use citric acid crystals from the chemists but I've also used white wine vinegar in the past and you can buy pukkah pickling solutions. Red wine vinegar seems to give brass a nice rosey hue ;)
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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2021, 03:34:29 pm »

hi all.
To day i set about sorting my soldering problems, my first objective was to replace my little burner with a new one from my local DIY store, this one seems to bring the metal to a cherry red colour very quickly  %%  so things improved in that area, i then looked at my cleaning of the parts to be soldered, i couldnt see too much wrong with the way i was doing this but did introduce the use of scotch brite pad, i also made a change to the flux, i made a new batch a bit thicker , conclusion of several hours in the shed is,  :-))  every thing came together nicely, it was great to watch the brass come up to temperature then see the flux change to a watery appearance then finally see the solder once added flow around the joint... im smiling all day, thanks for all your advice.[size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
[/size]TRUCKER[size=78%]
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ballastanksian

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2021, 03:47:09 pm »

That is so good to hear Trucker!


I was taught, 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' where soldering is concerned. After watching my father fail repeatedly to solder things, and finally give up (I was diddy at the time) it made perfect sense to hear about being clean.



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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2021, 05:57:47 pm »

guys, sorry, one more soldering question  %) , can i pickle, clean my newly worked parts days or even weeks after i have made them, i ask because i dont have the necessary bits and bobs in my shed, yet...


Trucker
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tonyH

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2021, 09:23:22 pm »

I don't see any reason why not. All it is is an acid etch as well as an acid/alkaline reaction with the flux residue. Obviously the stronger you make it the faster and deeper will be the result so start weak and get the feel on some scrap. Remember to rinse it thoroughly, especially in it's important little places! If you don't the reaction can continue in any crevasses and long term affect the join!
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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2021, 04:17:46 pm »

Thanks  :-))
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Mark T

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2021, 05:08:59 pm »

What is it you are cleaning as I usually just use wire wool for most parts with a bit of washing up liquid. It only takes seconds and turns out ok. Mind you I’m not soldering things like boilers.

frazer heslop

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2021, 06:27:23 pm »

After pickling if you have copper staining on the parts the mix in the link does a cracking job of cleaning it up and saves a lot of time
Removing “Copper” Surfaces from your Brass or Bronze | Eirny
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Trucker

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2021, 07:56:34 am »

hi Mark T,
pic shows what i have been making and asked about the cleaning method, its the main structure of the mast on my tyne class lifeboat.

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tonyH

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Re: silver solder issues
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2021, 10:06:27 am »

Hi Trucker,

It really is a case of personal choice. I've just got used to my way for items like the one you've shown.
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