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Author Topic: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen  (Read 441 times)

tipsy ferret

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Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« on: February 17, 2021, 12:18:30 pm »

Hello,
       has anyone built the old P N Thomas plan of Channel Queen, I am having difficulty interpreting the plan and profile views of the companionway on the poop.
tipsy ferret
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derekwarner

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 04:06:57 pm »

Welcome to MBM.....why not post an image of the Plan sections you are unsure of with an explanation of your question  :o


Derek
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Derek Warner

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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2021, 12:00:17 pm »

Thanks Derek,
                     I will post pictures and further detail shortly.
     Ian
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 12:32:30 pm »

Looking at illustrations of the plan online the design would appear to be something like this:

https://suburbanshipmodeler.com/2016/11/28/companionway/

Colin
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2021, 10:36:42 am »


Colin,
 my problem relates to the square obiect on the poop deck to the starbord of the marked companionway and presumably another of the same on the port. This appears on the attached plan view but I cant see it on the elevation.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2021, 11:50:29 am »

I don't think you will ever be sure what it actually is without further documentation. Obviously Phil Thomas had access to the original plans at the Goole Shipbuilding and Repair Co. before it closed in 1984. A quick look online confirms that some of the company records seem to have gone to the East Riding Museums while the National Maritime Museum apparently has 83 drawings from the company in their collection - that could be an expensive route to go down though!

The other approach would be to look at what the object might logically be. The ship carried 40 passengers and the presence of seats on the poop together with the companionway and an associated skylight strongly suggests that there were some passenger facilities within the poop, maybe a lounge/diner. If so then this would have needed a water supply which argues for the object being a header tank above to give constant pressure which would have been topped up from eleswhere in the ship as and when needed. If so there would probably only have been the one tank.

My Granada model has one of these on the poop, the photo below shows the two on the boat deck which were bigger and serviced the main accommodation. They were rectangular with a vent pipe and inspection plate on top with a supply pipe running up to near the top on one side. (just like you might have in your loft!)

Another less likely possibility would be a potato locker with mesh or ventilated sides but I don't think this would be located directly against another structure and is unlikely to have been needed on the short voyages made by Channel Queen.

Some food for thought anyway!

Colin
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2021, 12:53:26 pm »

Colin,
       very nice work on your Granada. On re-examining the profile view the "object" might be 10 to 14 inches high. This coupled with the plan view making it about 28 inches square makes me think it could be some sort of hatch. I can't however see the need for a hatch in this position.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 02:24:03 pm »

I have now found the plan in the April 1972 issue which is a bit clearer than the online illustration.

Not sure if it shows up clearly below but there is obviously a mistake in the plan view as the lines of the companionway and the mysterious object are mixed up plus the plan view is out of alignment with the elevation view. In fact the lines on both views are ambiguous. The rhomboid looks like a window in the side of the companionway but that seems unusual. I'm not altogether sure that the object is depicted on the elevation at all. The small hatch just forward of the wheel isn't shown on the elevation either.

It could be a ventilation hatch for the lobby at the foot of the companionway where there might have been a small pantry for the passenger space. In the 1903 liner I am currently building I took photos of the the plans in the National Maritime Museum including most of the deck plans and this has proved invaluable in clarifying a lot of the external detail as you can see what was under/behind it. The second image shows the pantry in the poop forward of the passenger accommodation on this bigger ship (ss Miltiades).

I think it is likely that the poop on Channel Queen would have been used to house 3rd class passengers with the 1st & 2nd class accommodated amidships. Certainly there would have been at least two classes and the cheap tickets were usually at the back (with the crew forward.)

If it was a hatch then whether there was another on the other side (for the bar?) is anyone's guess.

I think I would go for an opening hatch on a slightly raised coaming - nobody can prove you wrong!

Colin

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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2021, 04:26:01 pm »

Colin,
       thank you so much for your comprehensive advice. I thought the outline of the "object" may have been hidden on the elevation behind a couple of stanchions and the lowest rail, hence the measurements. ( naivety on my part). As I only ever build for my own pleasure and never for exhibition or competition I think I ill proceed with a header tank on one side and a low hatch on the other.
Thanks again for your advice It's been a real pleasure corresponding with you.
Ian
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2021, 04:54:30 pm »




[size=78%]
Colin, a couple of pictures of the water tank and small hatch on my Coaster Penmaen Head.
Ian[/size]
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2021, 05:22:08 pm »

That's a lovely model too Ian. I really like these older vessels, so much character. Yes water tanks were often cylindrical but not always.

In building Miltiades I am using a 1:1200 waterline drawing as a basis supplemented by photos of the actual plans in the Maritime Museum, including the hull lines and body plan together with dozens of photos I took of the builder's model when it was on display in the Science Museum. It is turning out to be a real jigsaw puzzle and there are some unresolved discrepancies which leave me scratching my head. For example the builder's model has a porthole opening out onto the after well deck from the hospital/medical facility but on the drawing someone has changed it to a window in pencil and clearly altered the internal layout of and access to the ship's hospital so it is likely this was a change made while building the vessel which did not get reflected in the builder's model.

Another issue when working from shipyard plans is that very often major fittings are not shown in detail. You might just get a rectangle labelled 'steam winch; because these were 'off the shelf' standard items of the period which means that you need to look elsewhere for drawings and photos. Very often adverts of the time can be useful. The same with standard lifeboats. All part of the fun really!

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2021, 05:51:43 pm »

hi there tipsy


I have the plans of the SS CHANNEL QUEEN by P.N. Thomas; I noticed further along on the vessel plan there is a sanitary tank; that is opposite the funnel; and there is a sanitary tank port and starboard.   So, I dont think there would be a sanitary tank down aft - but there may be.   But I would have thought it would have been a lot larger size.


On the plan further aft of the funnel - there is a galley skylight which is drawn in as a rectangle, similar to that one on the stern of the vessel.    Just wondering if that is what that rectangle represents.


The other thought that came to mind is, whilst going through the the book British Ocean Tramps Vol 1 - by P.N. Thomas at the plans of vessels- I note there are several drawings of rectangular shapes on the stern deck, some of them which are marked in as - what look to be like - canvas chart houses (where they put the charts for shelter - if they have to steer from the stern) in an emergency.


The other thing possible would be a meat/vegetable locker - my gut feeling is though it may be a skylight.


John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2021, 06:33:47 pm »

John,

Yes, it is interesting to speculate isn't it. My reasoning was that this ship was designed to carry freight and passengers from London to the Channel Islands, probably a trip of 48 hours or so or maybe a bit more. So there would have been some basic onboard sleeping accommodation and lounge facilities - very basic I suspect for the 3rd class passengers who would probably have been confined to the poop for the trip. I doubt if the victualling would have been very generous either. One wonders what sort of passengers would have made that trip.

Round about when the article was published in Model Boats in 1972, Mrs B and I did a trip from Aberdeen to Lerwick on the old St Clair. We travelled second class and it was really basic even then! Hardly any facilities and horribly uncomfortable! I shudder to think what it might have been like back in 1912.

Colin
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2021, 09:12:04 am »

Thank you both.
What was a minor issue is fast becoming the focal point of the vessel for me. I expect I will try each of your suggestions and adpot the one that looks right from a holistic perspective.
Colin, you are right about old ships and character. That is one reason I built Penmaen Head.The other was I was born and raised on the North Wales coast half way between the Point of Ayr colliery and the LLandulas stone quarries and can just remember the coasters silhouettes with a smudge of dark smoke on the horizon
Ian
 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2021, 10:18:43 am »

Ian,

You might be interested in the painting below then. In 1985 I reviewed the Caldercraft Talacre kit for Model Boats magazine. A gentleman in South Africa with a previous connection to Wales saw it and sent me his painting based on the kit illustrations and depicting Talacre off Point of Ayr. I still have the painting but not the model. The kit was (and remains) incorrect in showing the upper bridge the wrong way round as a photo of the original ship shows. It's a nice painting though!

Colin
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2021, 11:36:17 am »

Colin,
         lovely painting. My only criticism would be that the sea from the Dee estuary to about Colwyn Bay was always grey rather than blue even in summer.  I was always told this was the result  of what came out of Liverpool! Doesnt detract from the painting though.
 I considered building the Talacre but wanted a coaster with an enclosed bridge. I bought the MAP plan for Kyle Rhea but this was a bit small (1/48 I think) but then found Models by Design down in Dorset made a 1/36 hull and plan of the same ship. I renamed this Penmaen Head in honour of a local landmark. 11 years on i'm still tinkering with her. She is not very accurate but has given me a  great deal of pleasure.


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John W E

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2021, 11:43:42 am »

Nice painting that is Colin; well worth hanging on to that.


Ian, this is a website that I often look into for different vessels specs and photographs.   I know its basically all ships which were/are built on the Tyne but it gives some real good photographs to look at.    You may already use this website - but - this morning I was looking through to see if I could find any photographs which correspond to similar lay outs to the vessel you are building.


Have a look at this and see what you think.


Matoppo 1904 (tynebuiltships.co.uk)


John
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tipsy ferret

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2021, 01:19:04 pm »

Thanks John Really useful/interesting site.
Ian
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chas

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Re: Old MAP Plan SS Channel Queen
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2021, 03:25:03 pm »

John, thanks for sharing that website, it's fantastic.I never knew it existed. I'll be passing that on to our club.


Charles



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