Topic: XRAD'S LIVE STEAM 1/24 BROOKLYN TUG (Read 6851 times)

xrad · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2023, 03:06:29 pm »

more pics:

the condenser has two exhaust inlets (engine and water pump) and two vent outlets to the stack. The preheater coils are placed towards the exhaust inlets. The preheater coils were made on a cardboard tube. The condenser has a brass plug on top to check water level. There is a bottom drain with valve. This will go to an electric self priming pump for emptying......

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2023, 06:07:47 pm »

How thick is that boiler barrel?!

xrad · « **Reply #27 on:** February 24, 2023, 07:24:59 pm »

Hi Martin. The condenser barrel wall is .125 thick. I was not sure if I was going to thread the barrel, or use bungs so I went with the thicker wall. Next time, I will use .083 and bungs. Some more progress. Finished the two water tanks. These have walls and end caps of .025 copper...really thin, so you have to be careful working it. There is 1/4" pipe inlet and 1/4x40 vent bungs on top of each tank. I have an electric pump that sits on top of a gallon jug of distilled H20, and it will pump these tanks full via a filling receptacle.

The end caps for the water tanks are brazed to the outside of the tanks to keep the rounded edge look. The key is to place a 3 or 4 spot welds around the endcap opposite the natural solder flow. Then, turn the tank 180 degrees and braze fill all the gaps with the natural flow. Why? because it is easy to keep the end cap in place in reverse at first, so you can check alignment. I'm sure there are jigs and other ways, but this was easy.

once done, check for leaks under some minimal pressure. One tank no leaks, the second, tiny leak at the threads of the lower outlet. so, all good. Next, boiling citric acid bath for 30 min, then a quick polish. Big steam plant parts are done. The piping is easy, but will have to wait unit the base/hull mounts are completed.

xrad · « **Reply #28 on:** February 26, 2023, 05:49:42 pm »

Brazed up a brass mounting base from 1/2" U channel and some solid bar. Made the mount for the boiler pump and servo, brass and silver steel and regular steel. Stainless 3-48 and 4-40 screws hold the parts to the base. the idea is to have the engine and boiler pump exhausts a bit higher than the condenser tank so that condensate runs down to condenser tank. It is a modular setup so that individual parts or the whole boiler /pump/condenser can be removed. Basically, only two steam pipes extend beyond this relatively contained system, the engine steam IN and exhaust OUT. To also make things a bit easier, the engine and boiler pump hot sides are to starboard, and exhausts to port....

rhavrane · « **Reply #29 on:** February 26, 2023, 06:50:20 pm »

Bonjour,
beautiful setup indeed

I see a whistle valve, will you build it or buy it ? The first option is a challenge

xrad · « **Reply #30 on:** February 27, 2023, 12:35:12 am »

Thank you rhavrane! As for the whistle, I have a small commercial unit which I will be using. I finished the water tank mounts. Hammered some 1" wide brass strips to appropriate angle and silver soldered them to steel bars. I will make band straps to hold the tanks in place...... Test fitting assembly into hull went well, and the mounts do not touch the hull as expected. I have several inches of bow-stern adjustment of the assembly, which will help with ballasting/stability.

xrad · « **Reply #31 on:** February 28, 2023, 06:34:11 pm »

made a few band clamps with 2-56 screws and .016 brass strips. Silver soldered on some right angle for the screws. Mounted the hand pump. It is adjustable by about 1/2" so that fitting alignment is made easier by using 1/4 thick brass clamps mounted to a 1" wide brass base..... This is the PMR (PM Research) water pump machined kit. It has stainless backflow preventing balls and pumps really well. I have used this to create over 200PSI of pressure. It is not to scale, but close enough for me....... I plan to plumb this on it's own circuit to the starboard side of boiler, where there will also be a blow down valve.....

xrad · « **Reply #32 on:** March 01, 2023, 11:24:05 pm »

Simple mount made for the condenser tank. Some plumbing done. The boiler and site glass blow downs combine into single line into condenser. x2 back flow check valves keep boiler steam where it should be. One manual valve to open boiler, second one on the site glass. Still plenty of room to use the hand pump. Pump fill line also added. Kinda have to do everything in reverse to see where all the lines will go. Cool puzzle.....also had to machine a bunch of adapter fittings which are useful, but time consuming to make....

rhavrane · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2023, 12:38:49 pm »

Bonjour,
In France we would call your steam plant "une usine à gaz" ", a "gaz factory" meaning very compmex, but what a beautiful "usine à gaz""

Is there any equivalent of this idea in English ?

xrad · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2023, 07:55:37 pm »

I don't know of an english equivalent, but Rube Goldberg excessive plumbing comes to mind. If you have a fixed die, just take a dremel cutoff wheel and split the die with a slight V groove for the set screw. This will give you the extra thread depth (diameter)needed for some of the fittings.....for example, this is a 5/16-32 fixed die thread which has been cut and is perfect fit spread open a bit, but as-is was too loose for the union nut...

Notice the thin shim to keep the die centered....

xrad · « **Reply #35 on:** March 03, 2023, 09:29:03 pm »

some more plumbing done. I used 1/4" between the water tanks, which reduces slightly for the rest of the run through the pump and into the boiler fill port. 1/4" tube also used for water tank fill lines, with brass caps on top. There is a condensate drain after the steam pump which can be used with electric drain pump or by the steam pump to empty the water tanks. This same valve is also used to help prime the steam pump. I used up a bunch of old fittings and valves which is why so many different parts

. I try to use 3.5mm copper tube for most of the other runs, which is pretty inexpensive at 20 ft for 40$. This is generally connected to 3.5mm ferrules and 1/4-40 nuts. Smaller tubing used for gas and a few other places, like the water tank vents. All of the runs are modular and can be removed for repairs, although sections are brazed at some fittings, like 'T' fittings, to decrease use of union nuts.

waiting on some .016x1/4 brass straps so I can finish the tank straps.....

xrad · « **Reply #36 on:** March 06, 2023, 06:02:29 pm »

Finished the plumbing major components and tested the system. Works very well. I posted a short youtube vid for anyone interested. Thanks to Andrea for supporting me throughout this project

!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Eo9tzdVhM

rhavrane · « **Reply #37 on:** March 06, 2023, 08:28:28 pm »

Bonjour Xrad,
Again, amazing steam plant indeed

I especially like this double donkey pump, could you please remind me where it does come from as I would like one too !

xrad · « **Reply #38 on:** March 07, 2023, 03:15:51 am »

Thank you! So I bought this duplex pump from a machinist named Don 8 or 9 years ago. It is a 3/4 scale van brocklin design which works very well. I do not have his full name or address anymore. Minimal pressure need to get her going. This design has been copied by a few machinists and they end up selling them here and there. Also in the pic is a shuttle type pump. It used to work really well, but then something must have worn out. I need to fix it. Pumps measure about 3.5 to 4 inches in height. You can find them for sale on facebook and other sites. for example:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=106764&sid=709d00c1f31d8cd479b960c6cef853b0
https://www.facebook.com/SteamPump

The duplex pump was about 400$ and I bought two. One was a little cheaper due to a slight machining error.

I have/had quite a collection of live steam boilers, trains, boats, and engines over the years. I rebuilt every one to working condition except a 3/4 northern. I still have it in pieces.....you can see it in the background of one of the pics. The duplex pump was originally for this large steam engine. Here are a few pics....

xrad · « **Reply #39 on:** March 07, 2023, 03:27:03 am »

and some of the pumps...

rhavrane · « **Reply #40 on:** March 07, 2023, 08:44:31 am »

Bonjour Xrad,
Thank you for this information and I envy too your Stuart bi and tri steam machines

For the moment, I'm going to be satisfied with the one made to me by JMC https://youtu.be/hSwG2p45iGY still on sale.

xrad · « **Reply #41 on:** March 07, 2023, 02:11:07 pm »

that is a very nice pump.

I found the guy who I bought the pump from in case anyone interested:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=81142

You would have to join to PM him. Maybe he (steamingdon) still makes them????

xrad · « **Reply #42 on:** March 08, 2023, 06:16:54 pm »

finished the tank straps with 3-48 stainless bolts and nuts through brazed brass angles. Tested everything. still no leaks. eventually, i'll get to the hull mounts for boiler and engine and drill the hole for the prop shaft. I have to find a good location for the water tank overflow tubes, which will depend on the deck access.....

xrad · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2023, 01:37:52 pm »

all pipes polished. while everything is off the boiler frame, I am working on a simple pocket with clamping mount to attach frame to hull....

also, i noticed that the burners were not burning with equal flame. I found that one jet was partially blocked, debris or or poorly made? Also, I had incomplete ignition of gas and there was 'rumbling' (not back-burning) inside the boiler at anything more than a pretty low gas setting. This means that the gas was burning somewhere else inside the boiler pipes, and not just past the burner like it should be, due to lack of oxygen/poor gas-O2 ratio. The rumbling sounds like a pulse jet engine in case you have not heard it. The easy test for this is to turn the gas down until the rumbling goes away, OR gently blow into the burner side holes (those nearest the boiler), and if the rumbling goes away, that is your problem.

So, I drilled out both jets with #80 drill (.0135", .3429mm), the smallest size I have. I set the pin drill into the milling machine drill chuck and carefully aligned the jet holes for drilling, and drilling down about .5 thou at a time, was able to accomplish this without issue. This new jet size just about in the middle between a #8 (.25mm) and #16 jet (.4mm). So of course the burners now run a bit 'more' rich. And they ran rich before I drilled them. But the extra jet diameter allows me to add a moderate amount of air via the extra piping you see on the back of the burners. This is shared and somewhat balances the burners, and subjectively, increased burn temp/flow by about 10-20%. Also, the burners work very well on just a little bit of gas too, so when the tank output low, or the gas regulator sets to low, or I set the tank valve to low, the burners work great. No more 'rumbling'!

The way the burners are designed left little room for adding fresh air ports. Location of pipes at the back of each burner burner is not ideal, but it works out well and I do not have to redesign the way the burners mount to the boiler or the main layout on the boiler frame. Plus, they look cool! Also, the 5/16-27 thread allow me to use different size restrictors if needed, or open up both pipes for individual flow. You can hear the air being sucked into the new intake pipe and the chimney exhaust smells much cleaner....

xrad · « **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2023, 02:01:06 am »

Still working on this project.

Just completed the third of three modular units for boiler control:

1) condenser pump controller
2) Automatic boiler fill controller
3) automatic gas valve controller

https://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?t=206037
link to C++ code

So for this latest build, I need a way to control the gas burner valve. I decided on a servo with 90 degree throw to a valve with 90 off. good match. Why? because, if the boiler has hit the blow off PSI (usually about 50-60psi), then any additional heating would be wasted. So you can now set the 'pressure' with first selection (highlighted by white DOT and RED LED). this is the trigger point. Above this pressure, the BLUE LED comes on and the gas valve is turned down moderately (to the 'servoEnd' position, but not to OFF, obviously. When the pressure is reduced by steam usage, then the servo arm moves back to initial setting 'servoBegin' setting, and burner turns up to full blast again. I 'could' also trigger the burner to full ON if the boiler automatic filler (unit 2) is triggered, in order to heat the newest 'colder' water up to steam ASAP (but not really necessary as it passes through a pre-heater). ...but that is for another day.... Or.....I could put all the electronics/code into one build....also for another day. The current modular system is just that, modular. If I do not want to use a component, I can leave it out. and it's easy to place around the hull for balance. Everything runs off a 7.4 50c lipo. more than enough juice for hours....Automatic Gas Valve Controller code is here. If you are new to arduino/C++ coding, you may enjoy reading through this for tips and tricks. Especially how to run a single rotary encoder for multiple tasks. Also, using some basic float variables converted to integers, and how to take an analog sensor environmental reading and convert it to an adjustable output back into the environment. Enjoy!

KBIO · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2023, 04:16:51 pm »

Hello !
Very interesting work Xrad! Thanks for sharing.
A friend of mine has shining plumbing too , on his steam plants. When I asked him why he was spending so much time and energy to rub those pipes, he answered me :
-"That makes the ladies come and ask how I do so?"
No comments !

xrad · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2024, 08:54:04 pm »

Code: [Select]

code tag test

1967Brutus · « **Reply #47 on:** June 24, 2024, 02:58:15 pm »

Quote from: xrad on November 16, 2023, 02:01:06 am

Still working on this project.

Just completed the third of three modular units for boiler control:

1) condenser pump controller
2) Automatic boiler fill controller
3) automatic gas valve controller

https://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?t=206037
link to C++ code

So for this latest build, I need a way to control the gas burner valve. I decided on a servo with 90 degree throw to a valve with 90 off. good match. Why? because, if the boiler has hit the blow off PSI (usually about 50-60psi), then any additional heating would be wasted. So you can now set the 'pressure' with first selection (highlighted by white DOT and RED LED). this is the trigger point. Above this pressure, the BLUE LED comes on and the gas valve is turned down moderately (to the 'servoEnd' position, but not to OFF, obviously. When the pressure is reduced by steam usage, then the servo arm moves back to initial setting 'servoBegin' setting, and burner turns up to full blast again. I 'could' also trigger the burner to full ON if the boiler automatic filler (unit 2) is triggered, in order to heat the newest 'colder' water up to steam ASAP (but not really necessary as it passes through a pre-heater). ...but that is for another day.... Or.....I could put all the electronics/code into one build....also for another day. The current modular system is just that, modular. If I do not want to use a component, I can leave it out. and it's easy to place around the hull for balance. Everything runs off a 7.4 50c lipo. more than enough juice for hours....Automatic Gas Valve Controller code is here. If you are new to arduino/C++ coding, you may enjoy reading through this for tips and tricks. Especially how to run a single rotary encoder for multiple tasks. Also, using some basic float variables converted to integers, and how to take an analog sensor environmental reading and convert it to an adjustable output back into the environment. Enjoy!

Assuming the "condenser pump" is for cooling purposes: Is it your intention to re-use the condensed steam? I am a bit confused by what looks like two feedwater tanks and a large condenser with a cooling pump? What is the purpose of the condenser pump controller? Because normally, the condenser pump can be an uncontrolled pump with constant delivery?

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Author Topic: XRAD'S LIVE STEAM 1/24 BROOKLYN TUG (Read 6851 times)