Topic: AT Procat bait boat problems and advice (Read 13471 times)

taffybouy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2021, 08:24:22 pm »

Quote from: microgyros on February 26, 2021, 09:59:24 pm

I see why more rc channels was in the offing. Transmitter pdf 8.72 MB is 2-channel with a 3-channel Rx

The parts to do that are there. The same bits are used to turn left/right via the steering channel (2 x 2pole relays & 2 x throttle drive transistors).

Turning can done in two other ways:-
WW1 tank style, by forward or reverse on one side only, other side stopped. (by transistor: off)
By spinning on the spot by opposite rotation (both left & right transistors: on & one relay energised).
So is it also supposed to do as you described? The parts must be in full working order if 2. can be done. Otherwise, you have to test continuity of 3>4 & 5>6 in the energised position.
Logical though that is, it would mean you have to do something extra to dispense bait without moving off station.

2 is correct. If I was to use the steering control on its own it performs perfectly. If I was to use the thrust control as well as the steering then it only turn to one side properly. I just find it very difficult to drop the thrust and use the steering on its own as the momentum of the boat drop significantly.

HMS Invisible · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2021, 09:09:55 pm »

Quote from: taffybouy on February 27, 2021, 08:24:22 pm

2 is correct. If I was to use the steering control on its own it performs perfectly. If I was to use the thrust control as well as the steering then it only turn to one side properly. I just find it very difficult to drop the thrust and use the steering on its own as the momentum of the boat drop significantly.

I could be wrong but my initial thought is the hardware is ok but rc trim ( particularly rudder) needs very precise adjustment because the procat board mixes the throttle and rudder together. Perhaps the influence of rudder needs to be dialled back.
Try rudder trim adjustment until motors are matched going forward when the rudder lever is centred.

taffybouy · « **Reply #27 on:** February 28, 2021, 11:47:14 am »

I'll give that a try although I did mess about with things before taking everything apart.

I've managed to pull one of the pins off the board and my soldering iron has just packed in so I'm waiting for a new one to arrive. Don't fancy attempting re-attaching the pin with my gas soldering iron, temp controlled all the way for PCB works.

HMS Invisible · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2021, 05:01:45 pm »

Cranked the opposite way, the listed measures would give problems that came with the new set so, logically, they would help.

Receiver instructions call the heading hold, gyro stabilised mode (for drift cars) S.V.C. and it needs to be switched off.
Choose a failsafe position for both transmitter sticks that kills the throttle whenever the transmitter is off.
Turn the transmitter's throttle gain to 100%
Steering gain at the minimum that allows "spin on the spot" speed.

They are from R3FS receiver PDF but I don't see the S2RS transmitter gain controls that may be needed to replicate the original AT Procat receiver/transmitter pair.
They could be hardwired with one resistor in the transmitter or simulated by going very easy on the rudder.

taffybouy · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2021, 03:40:56 pm »

Good news and bad news.

Good news is my temp controlled soldering iron arrived and I got the pin back on the board so I could test.

Bad news is embarrassing for me but is really good news, because it was indeed a settings issue on the controller. 100% gain on throttle and steering trim reduced to lowest and the steering now works with the throttle stick. Seems to do what I'd expect which is switch one motor to reverse whilst the other continues forward. This now works in both directions for left and right.

This just leaves 2 issues for me:

Can I tap off another part of the board to power the SBEC or should I just introduce a power switch to the supply to the SBEC?

What do I need to do to get the throttle the right way around i.e. forward to go forward and backwards to go backwards?
Is this back to the manual of the receiver?

Thanks again

HMS Invisible · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2021, 04:54:45 pm »

The two red plugs swapped (between receiver slots is safer) solves the problem.

The sbec can be dispensed with and you can add a 5v connection to the receiver from the 5v on the procat board.

taffybouy · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2021, 05:08:12 pm »

Been a bit of an idiot again.
If I change trim switch to normal on the controller it works in the right direction. I have to change the trim control slider to full in order to stop the motor spinning backwards though and the full throttle forwards is painfully slow whereas backwards is rapid.

Not sure if that even makes sense to me so I'll try it again.

2 switches on the controller for rev and nor. Only just realised that st stands for steering (which I knew and have played with) and th stands for throttle. Sorry, I'm a plonker.

So with the steering and throttle both in nor and both sticks in the center I have to move the trim slider on the throttle to fully forward in order to stop the motors spinning backwards.
Backwards on the stick spins 2 or 3 times faster than forwards.

If I were to move the throttle switch to rev and leave the trim slider in the middle position it behaves itself and spins the motors fast when pushing forward or backwards. If I move the slider to fully backwards it spins the motors faster when the stick is pushed backwards.

I'm still unsure whether the steering is the right way around until I put it in the water.

There's still something up with the throttle in my opinion, I think it needs spinning around somehow. I'm just charging the batteries again to rule this out as I've been playing with it a lot recently.

radiojoe · « **Reply #32 on:** March 01, 2021, 07:42:20 pm »

usually if the sticks are not working in the right direction just change them with the REV/NOR switches.

HMS Invisible · « **Reply #33 on:** March 01, 2021, 07:59:19 pm »

If ony it was as simple as that when there is on-board mixing, two motors and an aftermarket product with no diagnostics or push-button reset.
Unfortunately it isn't and taffybouy can tell you.

Here is how I would approach it:-If one motor turns the wrong way AND only one relay energises in reverse throttle then, disregard which motor actually rotated in the correct direction. Swap wires on the motor that engages its relay coil when throttling forward.

If you now have both motors rotating the wrong way then toggle the throttle reverse switch on the transmitter so you can have both relays off at forward.

You can then procede from there and crank up to 100% gain & use the relay clicking as a guide to:-

zero the rudder trim and
trim the throttle midway between the relays clicking before reverse and forward throttle
repeat if needed

The sbec before switch ensures the R3FS is settled before the main board is powered up. The procat controller should allow for that but a reset delay can be added if it misbehaves. The same behaviour would show up if the switch is left ON and power comes on by battery connection.

taffybouy · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2021, 08:58:53 pm »

Had a bit of a nightmare.
I managed to let the controller board touch the hopper release with power on. The hopper release is a wire which heats up and contracts opening the hopper door latch.
It's managed to short something on the board and now the lights don't work. Hopper wire has burnt out too.
Steering still seems to behave but it's another thing to repair now.

HMS Invisible · « **Reply #35 on:** March 03, 2021, 12:03:31 am »

How odd! That reads like a thermostat. If there is a reason it is preferred over an electromagnet it would logically be cost or accidental release or the safety delay. Do you know?
Three family members, including myself, have had washing machine door catches fail so stuff that technology and similar Heath Robinson nonsense.

Youtube viewing taught me how to strip down and service bicycles but has yet to reveal anthing useful about the working parts of a bait boat. I'm out my depth.

taffybouy · « **Reply #36 on:** March 03, 2021, 07:43:32 am »

I'm out of my depth is a real tag line of mine since messing with this bait boat.
The biggest issue is the boats are deliberately unique to the manufacturer so the average diy'er can't repair, they must replace.

I'm opting for replacement off the shelf parts now.

Esc's x 2. How do I work out what current these need to be from my existing motors?
My motors are fully encased so I can't see anything of them. Just 2 wires to them and I think they are brushed motors.

Vtail mixer.

New 4 (or more) channel receiver and Transmitter

Re use the sbec and batteries

New servo for the hopper door.

radiojoe · « **Reply #37 on:** March 03, 2021, 09:05:22 am »

A heated wire to open the hopper ? that's a new one on me when a solenoid would do a much better job and a servo even better, from following your problems with the workings of this boat, I think you have made the right decision, but you need to establish whether the motors are brushed or brushless it makes a difference to the ESC's.

Joe.

taffybouy · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2021, 07:07:44 am »

Here's what I'm thinking after doing more research:

Planet TS2+2 receiver/transmitter
Vtail mixer mtronics
hobbywing 60a brushed esc (2 of)
Push/Pull solenoid for the hopper door
Already have a Turnigy SBEC which can be used for the reciever power.
Already have 6 cell NiMH 7.2v batteries (4 of, 2 new September 20 and 2 new January 20)

Can you see anything else that I'll need to get things working or do I have it covered?

radiojoe · « **Reply #39 on:** March 04, 2021, 10:35:11 am »

Yeah that would do it, personally I'd dispense with the vtail mixer and have a motor on each stick (Tank Steering) of course you'd need both hands to control, you haven't mentioned the lights you could use a remote switch or hard wire them to an on board switch.

Joe.

taffybouy · « **Reply #40 on:** March 04, 2021, 04:17:52 pm »

I was just thinking of a remote switch for the lights as I have enough channels on the receiver.

With regards to the steering, how does that work with the receiver?
It's a throttle on left and steering on the right so I guess I'd need a different receiver?

radiojoe · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2021, 05:27:00 pm »

Tank steering you would plug the port esc into the throttle channel and the strbd esc into the elevator channel or the right hand stick up and down, the remote switches would work best with a switch channels on the transmitter so I would go with a six channel set There's not that much difference in the price of a four channel and a six, you can of course get remote switches that work by jabbing the stick to turn on and off but I prefer switches on the Tx.

Joe

Paulm40 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 12, 2021, 02:29:35 pm »

hi, thought I would jump in on this, Im in a very similar position to the poster, and having been following the thread. Ive decided to strip the boat entirely of existing kit (I shorted out the rx board attached to the main board) and have gone with 2escs, fs-i6 controller. I can do the mixing on the handset which eliminates the need for a separate mixer inside the boat. This will enable all steering from one stick and leave the other stick free for hopper release/maybe leds.
In order to have dimmable led function i will get another esc and wire this in to either vr-a or vr-b on the handset which will then control those. Hopper release... so the heated wire is memory wire/muscle wire/nitinol and works by shrinking when voltage is applied and it reaches a given temperature. I think I can control this via a spring loaded left hand stick by either moving left or right, or I rip that out and move to servo release

taffybouy · « **Reply #43 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:27:00 pm »

I've just received all my bits I ordered. I'm thinking of a push and pull servo for the hopper release.
I'm also thinking of a remote on of switch for the lights.

I'll report back when I've had the chance to put it all together.

Is appreciate you updating this thread with your progress please

Paulm40 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 13, 2021, 11:57:00 am »

Will do. Just waiting on everything being delivered. Like you i tried working with the existing board but it proved a nightmare. Easier to rip out and replace. Ive gone for the flysky handset as it has onboard mixing so its less stuff inside the boat. Ive mucked around with my own boats (microcats) for a few years, but needed a crash course in rc wiring thanks to this forum!
The manufacturers of the boat quoted £190 to convert to 2.4ghz

taffybouy · « **Reply #45 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:21:57 pm »

I had the same quote. Seems a lot when you consider how much its cost for the bits you bought doesn't it?

Paulm40 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 14, 2021, 08:22:28 am »

It does when all they do is swap out the board. The boat doesnt need to come apart. But he will normally charge £25 for split and reseal the boat. Then range testing etc
They are very baaic inside, ita the custom board that gives everyone the headaches!

Paulm40 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 18, 2021, 03:19:29 pm »

Im not sure how you are getting on, but i got the kit so spent my lunch hour wiring everything up and having a test.
Ive managed to get mixing working so throttle and steering is on the right hand stick (its what im used to)
ive got the hopper working with the muscle wire when i set the limits to 20% (so it doesnt overheat)

Cannot get LED's working on an esc, they flash when connected but when using either the dial VR-A or one of the left hand sticks nothing happens.

The other problem i have discovered is that my escs dont provide 100%power in reverse which is an issue for going in reverse and also turning. Are there escs out there that provide 100% power for fwd and rev? only need a 15 or 20amp esc

taffybouy · « **Reply #48 on:** March 18, 2021, 07:38:14 pm »

Although I've got all the bits I've not started it yet. I've got an exam next week and another the week after so I'm focusing on them and will pick the boat up again in April and report back.

I did notice that Esc's had the option for break/stop and reverse but didn't pay attention to the percentage though.

Which esc's did you get?

Mine are mentioned in the posts but as I said, I haven't tested them yet so not sure how they'll perform.

Paulm40 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 18, 2021, 07:46:37 pm »

It would appear they are some Chinese imitation hobbyking escs. Work perfectly fine in fwd. Ive sussed the leds, i just needed to swap polarity so im pleased about that. Im just wsiting to hear back about the mtroniks marine escs to see if they give equal power in rev as they do fwd. Looks like it is quite common for escs to have a 70/30 split in fwd and rev power.
Good luck in the exams

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Author Topic: AT Procat bait boat problems and advice (Read 13471 times)