Model Boat Mayhem

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Author Topic: 'Water is dangerously dense'!  (Read 2582 times)

SailorGreg

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'Water is dangerously dense'!
« on: March 11, 2021, 07:59:08 am »

Here's a novel one. The water is "too dense"? I am all in favour of safe model boating, but really??!!


I wonder if Mayhem members local to Devizes might organise a regatta?


Greg

Link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349051/Model-makers-plan-sail-toy-boat-local-pond-sunk-health-safety-chiefs.html

kinmel

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SailorGreg

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Baldrick

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2021, 09:11:35 am »

To be sure, to be sure  The water in Devizes is denser than the council staff . In fact so dense the boat would not float but would sit on the surface supported by surface tension
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ChrisF

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2021, 09:43:29 am »

So if you have a regatta the water gets less dense?

I'd steer clear of those water birds as well. Have you seen their leg muscles!

Chris
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Subculture

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2021, 10:04:44 am »

Caution:councillors can be seriously thick.
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kinmel

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2021, 10:05:42 am »

Surely by now the pond has a 2 metre high fence round it.   With 2 way traffic on that road a car could easily skid across and into the lake, so that road needs closing too.

Perhaps a Mayhem Regatta once lockdown has gone away.
I hope the council can prove they own the park and have byelaws in place.
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Klunk

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2021, 10:23:27 am »

Taken from a H and S risk assessment from the council, sent me the other day.
1. how to use throw rope and how to tread water if you slip in cos the silt on the bottom makes it hard to stand up in

 The water is 3 ft deep,!

2. awareness of possible impact of cold/heat on individuals cos of proximity of water
Its 30ft across, and we sail less than 50 ft down. The lake is not big enough to influence a temperature drop!
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jaymac

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2021, 10:26:22 am »

Well water is at its most dense at 4 degrees then lesser the lower the temp falls ice floats don't it. Tis why some fish  stay on the bottom winter time ie Koi and Goldfish. Though garden ponds not  ususally deep enough to  have a big variance in Temp
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grendel

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2021, 10:27:00 am »

I think that councillors should immediately ban everyone from taking a bath due to the safety reasons and the fact that you can drown in the bath, how stupid, dangerous stuff that dihydrogen monoxide.
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grendel

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2021, 10:29:36 am »

Taken from a H and S risk assessment from the council, sent me the other day.
1. how to use throw rope and how to tread water if you slip in cos the silt on the bottom makes it hard to stand up in

 The water is 3 ft deep,!

2. awareness of possible impact of cold/heat on individuals cos of proximity of water
Its 30ft across, and we sail less than 50 ft down. The lake is not big enough to influence a temperature drop!

be careful if you tell them its too shallow to tread water in they will declare it doubly unsafe.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2021, 10:43:17 am »

Looks like predictive text strikes again - dense substituted for deep.

Even a small depth of water can lead to a risk of drowning if the bottom is slippery. I belive that is why at Mayhem only designated individuals are permitted to wade out to models. I'm sure Steamboat Phil will confirm that.

Colin
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2021, 12:04:19 pm »

correct Colin, as water as we all know can be dangerous at any depth. Even when wearing waders with studs sometimes its like an ice rink. There is always 2 of us at mayhem just incase one of us slips the other can help, as with waders on you feet go up (its the air at the feet ) and your head goes down......not a good position  :(( .
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T888

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2021, 01:02:50 pm »

If Council officers think the ponds water density is dangerous, then what about the density of concrete paths around it.

Just can’t believe these idiots, who voted then in >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( <*<
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2021, 02:00:17 pm »

Quote
Just can’t believe these idiots, who voted then in

It was almost certainly a misquote - see my reply #11 above.

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2021, 05:34:35 pm »

its obviously a typing error, but what about those who swim in any sea or those who swim in the Scottish lochs - deeper than 6 feet.   obviously the council doesnt rate people with common sense.  What's the difference in walking around the lake with a small child who has a fishing net - more chance of drowning - have the council banned this as well.  Today's council generation - I dont think the councillors possess any common sense.   


I can give you a perfect example - the area where I live have had steps down to the beach - from the clifftops - and had at the bottom of the steps a large concrete/brick standing area which housed a lifeguard station and a cafe - also - underneath it had public toilets and a place that used to house deckchairs.  Fair enough yobbos destroyed the lifebuard station etc which made it any eyesore.   However, the north sea, in its fury in my lifetime has destroyed the steps that lead from this platform down to the sand and also destroyed the toilet area.  Bearing in mind these are concrete and brick structures - and the force of the sea has destroyed that 2 times in my lifetime.   So, the councillors are now planning to replace it all with a wooden structure and wooden steps down to the beach - I didnt think wood was stronger than concrete - the sea will have a field day with the 'new' structure.


They must all be trained at the same college these councillors - the college of No brains and thickfulness.  They must all have degrees in it.
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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2021, 05:51:12 pm »

I think with local authorities it's usually simpler to employ the old maxim- 'It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission.'
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 06:12:12 pm »

It happens at all levels John, we have a Prime Minister who thinks it's a jolly good idea and excellent financial value to connect Scotland to Northern Ireland by a bridge or a tunnel at a time when the country's finances are on their knees.

In this instance the guy made the mistake of asking for permission to float his boat which is simply an invitation to think of reasons why it should be denied to cover the back of the local authority. Dead easy to find a 'reason' to say no.

Much better to go ahead and, if challenged, request to see the bylaw which prohibits model boating. There won't be one of course. And that puts the onus on officialdom to do lots of work to consider the matter which they won't want to do unless you are doing something stupid like chasing the ducks with a powerboat.

Colin
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Liverbudgie2

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2021, 07:41:33 pm »

It happens at all levels John, we have a Prime Minister who thinks it's a jolly good idea and excellent financial value to connect Scotland to Northern Ireland by a bridge or a tunnel at a time when the country's finances are on their knees.


And what's wrong with think big pray? It's at times like this that major projects need to be considered and evaluated after all, at one time anyone advocating the building of a tunnel under the channel probably would have been seen as nuts. The same with sending a rocket to Mars loaded with a one ton truck that would trundel around taking rock samples and sending the results back not forgeting either the loverly 4k images. Would be really interesting though if the Mekon put in an appearance though.


However, I am glad people are thinking about these kind of projects because even if they don't come to fruition a seed has been planted for the future.


LB


Who has just realised that he seriously wondered off topic :embarrassed:
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JimG

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2021, 07:58:01 pm »

  So, the councillors are now planning to replace it all with a wooden structure and wooden steps down to the beach - I didnt think wood was stronger than concrete - the sea will have a field day with the 'new' structure.


They must all be trained at the same college these councillors - the college of No brains and thickfulness.  They must all have degrees in it.
The idea may be that a wooden structure is more flexible and will bend rather than break. Also since damage appears to be expected the wood will be easier and cheaper to replace. I'm sure they have had structural engineers recommend the best material.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2021, 07:58:56 pm »

I've no problem with large innovative projects LB but I'd like to see more practical ones. Such as the proposed tidal power generation project in the Bristol Channel for example. Guaranteed power irrespective of wind  or solar. Just like the Rance barrage near St Malo. We toured it once, a very impressive engineering project. Very clever exploitation of tidal flows to produce almost constant energy generation.

The latest Mars expedition is an amazing technical achievement but it seems to have been sent to an entirely dead planet. The moons of Jupiter, especially Europa, offer a far more exciting potential prospect.

Colin

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2021, 08:03:29 pm »

Quote
The idea may be that a wooden structure is more flexible and will bend rather than break. Also since damage appears to be expected the wood will be easier and cheaper to replace. I'm sure they have had structural engineers recommend the best material.

That may be the case. The access to the beach at Birling Gap near Eastbourne is by means of a wooden staircase which has had to be progressively repaired and renewed as the cliff supporting it erodes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-41656871

Colin
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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2021, 11:10:58 pm »

Quote
obviously the council doesnt rate people with common sense
...And therein lies another problem most people fail to comprehend when analysing risk, most woudn't realise it but having chaired hundreds of risk assessments and HIRAS by now, whether you like it or not there is actually no such thing as "common sense".  That said, once the link was posted it -first thing I thought was "daily mail", second thing seemed to be missing quotations and thirdly perhaps I sympathise having asked questions before in good faith and received the wrong answer (and I don't believe the media in something like this).  I'm guessing there is more to this though which is why I wouldn't get too excited.
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Baldrick

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2021, 08:59:53 am »

To get back to the original dense water question.  The problem may be the Councils difficulty in advising that the water quality in the pond is in fact a tad iffy.
 It appears to be of a static nature and well popular with the local wild gull and seabird population . However in the light of a furore that broke out when they wanted to fill and concrete it over some time ago (pond has historic connection to Moonrakers Legend ) they probably were struggling to find an alternative term to toxic.
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kinmel

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Re: Water is dangerously dense!
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2021, 11:34:49 am »

Our council challenged our use of the Llandudno boating lake because of the high bacteria levels after heavy rain.
We pointed out that model boat enthusiasts had been using the lake since it was built by Llandudno Model Yacht Club in 1888 without any identified public health issues.    Also the hundreds of model boat ponds around the UK invariably have static water, yet there have been no recorded issues with them either.
They eventually accepted the empirical evidence of negligible risk and allowed sailing to continue at all 3 boating lakes in the county.
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