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Author Topic: Cyno troubles  (Read 2010 times)

mbm999

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Cyno troubles
« on: April 18, 2021, 01:12:22 pm »

Hi,
I have no luck with cyano glueing. It just doesn't go off for me in the recommended time. I've watched videos and its easy.
Some people, it seems, build entire boats out of it!

The current challenge is to bond a (1/8x1/8) hardwood chine (which i've pre-steamed to very near the shape) to an Eze-Kote'd hull.
i've made a practice piece so i don't ruin the real items.
The pieces that are slightly under tension will not go off unless clamped and left - the whole reason for me using cyano is to avoid clamping.
I've tried breathing on it. Having one piece damp. Fresh cyano. Shouting and swearing doesn't seem to help either.

I haven't tried a kicker as apparently the bond is not as strong.

Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom to impart about what works for them.

Thanks,
(A very frustrated) Mark
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Capt Podge

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 01:25:00 pm »

Have you tried roughening the eze-cote surface yet?
That would give the glue something to grab onto.


Ray.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 01:47:41 pm »

In addition to Ray's suggestion there are two other things you can do. If the chine strip is close to the intended shape then you may be able to hold it in position temporarily wth strips of Tamiya masking tape across it at intervals, possibly doing one section at a time. The other option is to temporarilly pin it to the hull using pre drilled holes through the wood to avoid splitting. Remove the pins afterwards by twisting them free rather than pulling.

When the rail is stuck down. run some thin cyano along the joint to the hull on both sides.

Colin
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mbm999

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 03:31:15 pm »

Thanks for the replies.

I sanded the hull (and practice piece) with 400 grit (as per the kit instructions) but perhaps it should be rougher on the chine line. I'll give that a go.
I've not had much luck with tape holding things down so the pin idea maybe the one to try - i'll probably give them both a go tho, no harm in trying.

Mark
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RST

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 03:31:51 pm »

What make of cyano and how thick is it please?  I've had no problems sticking to epoxy coatings.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 03:35:02 pm »

Quote
I've had no problems sticking to epoxy coatings

Mark says he is using Eze Kote acrylic and not Epoxy. I used the pin method on my Fairey powerboats and it worked fine. One was Eze Koted the other Epoxied.

Colin
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tigertiger

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 03:53:12 pm »

One thing springs to mind. How old is the glue? I believe it goes off and can do so quite quickly if not kept in a cool dark place.
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nemesis

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 03:58:10 pm »

 also how much are you putting on, Less is More, there is only so much moisture in the air, nemesis
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RST

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 04:28:47 pm »

Ah sorry I forgot which is which. Either way, last few weeks Ive just done one with ezekote and one with z poxy and not had any trouble with either and cyano sticking.  I think it's not true to say cyano doesn't negate clamping or temporary holding together, though if you use the right type it helps.


PS I've been using yellow bottle gorilla cyano (because that's what all the shops seem to be switching to) and I had some zap ultra thin in stock. Tack the parts with the thick one and make sure it's taped, clamped, whatever then run a bead of the very thin stuff down to finish the joint.  That's worked fine over the years. I'm not a fan of the gorilla products but that's what the shops seem to stock now and to be honest it's been ok save for the last bottle I just opened which must be dodgy because it's already polymerised before I opened it.  I don't like any of the deluxe CA -always seems to take way too long to grab then doesn't hold after.
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mbm999

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 05:33:31 pm »

Some really useful comments, thanks.

The cyano was freshly bought from Deluxe (Roket Max thick) after talking to them beforehand about my previous (bad) cyano experiences.
I've been keeping it in the fridge since purchase.

I've tried it thick and thin and it makes the outcome no different (for me).

@RST that's exactly what happens whichever cyano i try and use, so i guessed it must be me. Maybe I've just been unlucky in my choice(s).
Sounds like i really need to pin/tape it and I'm definitely going to run some thin along, should i ever manage to get it to grab.

Mark
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RST

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 06:11:52 pm »

Well I can't get roket cyano to work for me either. Don't buy it any more. I bought a bottle of it before lockdown last year (thinking it can't really be that bad). Wouldn't stick again. Binned it. Others will no doubt say it's fine but personally I think deluxe have very good marketing on their products.


Zap works best for me. Only thing I've noticed on the last couple of bottles of the very thin stuff is if I run it over a joint where it was already used it can ping apart!  It's also been melting polystyrene -which I've not had before with it. It's still amazingly good stuff for me though.
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RST

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 06:19:13 pm »

Ps the thicker it is the longer it takes to cure. And I read the less strong the bond because part of the polymerisation already took place making it thicker. Takes your choice. As Colin said. Better to pin it / tape it and close the gaps and I would just run a bead of thin stuff down the join after.


Also I don't find it ever easy to re-glue a joint previously done with cyano. If you go over it with cyano again it doesn't get into the pores again.


I've kept bottles in the fridge and on the workbench and it never seems to make too much difference how long it lasts.  I tend to buy smaller bottles now rather than have gloop left over.


The other stuff I've found quite good if I need something more economical in bulk is the kitchen fitter cyanos from the local industrial counter, though I've never used kicker either. Had a conversation with someone about it last year and both of us said we just used thinner stuff if we wanted a quick grab. It seems to be common in US and for aeromodellers though.  I've never been able to work out what the magic ingredient is.
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mrzippy

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 06:34:51 pm »

I rarely use Cyano myself, although it's becoming the norm in the aeromodelling world where a whiff of Activator Spray cures it.
I prefer slow set epoxy (to allow plenty of positioning time) parts held in place with masking tape or my recent discovery 'Blutack' -
I find I'm increasingly using it instead of tape, soften it by kneading between your fingers and apply pushing parts together,
may not have enough grip to hold a sprung chine, but masking tape should.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2021, 07:15:12 pm »

Cyano is just a cure for impatience!

Colin
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Klunk

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2021, 06:49:48 am »

I just use it with kicker, glue, spot of kicker sorted. for curves, I use yellow rocket (medium) then kicker it. thi way I can do bits at a time to anchor it in place, then run a bead of super thin against the hull and chine.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2021, 12:53:07 am »

Cyano is just a cure for impatience!

Colin


Yes, it is. However, it does save time, time that can then be spent in unsticking your fingers %)


Peter.
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Klunk

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2021, 03:43:56 am »


Yes, it is. However, it does save time, time that can then be spent in unsticking your fingers %)


Peter.

Or other parts of the body...
So far
Fingers, hands, arm, legs, 1 foot, ear, eyebrow, foot (knocked it off table onto foot and didnt realise).....and super thin dropped on my trousers while sitting down... fortunately industrial  work trousers and under pants saved an embarrassing  situation
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2021, 09:13:42 am »

Good grief Klunk, I thought I was bad enough just sticking my fingers together occasionally. You’re a legend {-)


Peter.
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Klunk

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2021, 09:36:48 am »

I work with cyano every day at work.
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Mrs Stav

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2021, 08:55:19 pm »


Ask Steamboat Phil about cyano ….Hubby recommended him some of the stuff and he went and got some....Well so the story goes Hubby Phoned him not knowing Phil was up to his neck in the stuff....trouble was unbeknown to himself he had some on his hand and he answered the phone....and he could not understand WHY he could not let go of the phone !!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)


Kelly
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justboatonic

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2021, 12:32:52 am »

The OP should put a small drop of cyano onto one thumb then pinch the forefinger and thumb together. If he finds his thumb and finger are stuck together, then the glue is fine and there's some other problem when trying to glue bits together. This is most likely incompatible materials (cyano will not stick everything to anything), poor surface preparation ie one or both surfaces not clean from contaminants or flat edges meaning the glue has little to grab onto or, one part is repeatedly being moved while the cyano is setting.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cyno troubles
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2021, 03:31:22 am »

Good suggestion, he just needs to have some acetone handy to unstick his fingers :-)


Peter.
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