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Author Topic: Brushless Outboard  (Read 881 times)

KitS

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Brushless Outboard
« on: May 19, 2021, 11:47:37 am »

I've sailed a psuedo-ON Class model race boat, 'Streaker Too', for umpteen years, and which was powered by the very nice, but fragile Jackson outboard. Originally it used a 380 sized brushed motor, but I upgraded it to a 550 later on, which worked even better, but got through final drive bevel gears like I go through Jaffa Cakes!  :((


Spare bevels have been unobtainable for some time now, and so 'Streaker Too' has been aground, but is still in good shape hull wise. Recently I've bought an Aeronaught outboard, which is much larger than the Jackson, but is tall enough to fit the hull, but has no motive power installed and I'm thinking of going brushless.


The question is, which brushless motor would be the equivalent of the 550, using the same prop as the original?


I'm entirely ignorant about brushless motors apart from knowing the 'KV' number means revs/volt.




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Kit

tonyH

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2021, 01:33:54 pm »

If it's the same as this one, there's an example of what someone bought from CMB at the foot of the page https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/Aeronaut-Aqua-Race-60-Outboard-Motor-AN7005_01.html
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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2021, 05:15:39 pm »

Yes, the outboard is the same as the one in the advert, but I'm doubtful if that motor will work. It looks as if it's an out-runner, which will need attaching at its rear end, and there's nothing in the outboard casing to do that. It seems to require a neck-mounted motor, which will reed to be an in-runner as I see it.


Or do I have it totally round my neck?
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tonyH

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2021, 07:08:21 pm »

Sorry Kit, I've no idea but it was bought at the same time so........?
Hobbies have no stock but, as you can see, they suggest a 600size brushless and they quote a rev limit of 26,000
https://www.hobbies.co.uk/aeronaut-aqua-race-60-outboard-motor-housing
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RST

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2021, 08:11:43 pm »

I might be putting foot in mouth but no different from usual...


I read recently an article saying webpages literally put anything enticing at the bottom to try and make you buy something else.  Unfortunately it's not too common for matching parts to be grouped and remember they are only just bought at same time rather than the old days it might say "matching parts" that said...
Second point:  I only have one small graupner brushless motor and it was already configured to be bolted at the shaft end but I believe reading tinternet it's possible to swap the direction the shaft protrudes by stripping down and pushing the shaft the other way before re-assembling. So I don't know and unfamiliar myself but I see many brushless motors mounted either way so maybe that capacity is a thing to check with the supplier before ordering rather than going by a generic picture


Not sure if that helps or not.  It may mean that motor will be OK?


Rich
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phillnjack3

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2021, 11:05:20 pm »

I have thought about puttinga better motor int eh Jackson, but the Jackson is a bit crap to be honest.
ive got one mounted to the back of an old mfa piranha, its rubbish for power and like you I upgraded to the 540 and still a waste of time.
if your outboard motor you got now can take a 540 size motor why not got a realy hot one of those or the brushless motors for converting from one of them. ive seen little brushless motors that look identical to the old 540 motors.. I dont know anything about them, but can see it would be a simple swap ?
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derekwarner

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2021, 11:52:39 pm »

So is the real limiting factor to these model outboards?


The motor, or the method of the change by 90 degree be it the coiled spring drive, or the alternate bevel gear set on the actual propeller shaft?


Derek
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phillnjack3

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 12:40:23 am »

the origuinal poster needs motor for his new outboard that is  a flexi drive system.


the old jackson  was the bevel gear rubbish motors...
some like them i dont...
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tsenecal

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2021, 12:52:56 am »

To answer derkwarner...

having tried almost all outboard motors available at one time or another, the answer is "yes"...

sending a flex-cable through a 90 degree bend will cause considerable stress...  expect to replace the cable often, and be limited on their top end performance.
using sub standard materials (brass or plastic) for your bevel gears will cause them to fail over time.  expect to replace them, and be limited on their top end performance.

so, either buy a ton of spare parts, or use something other than a scale outboard.
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RST

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2021, 01:03:18 am »

Sorry to bite Phil and take a step back but...

Quote
ive got one mounted to the back of an old mfa piranha, its rubbish for power and like you I upgraded to the 540 and still a waste of time.


...so it goes back a few years now but the piranha wasn't outwardly slated as a submerged drive set-up as far as I can tell.  So on that basis is a hull outwardly designed for submerged drive but fitted with an outboard retro-fitted fitted "rubbish", or the outboard itself is rubbish?
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phillnjack3

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2021, 02:26:30 am »

the outboard is rubbish, total gutless effort.
the design is a semi stand off scale outboard. if your 40ft away its fine ha ha


the drag of the thing is incredible in the actual housing, the gears inside are about and bad as you could make, no clearance tolerances.


would need and extremely lightweight boat for them to be any good, something made from foam, like a inflatable looking boat it might be ok.
realy needs a 540 size motor that can scream its nuts off, the old mabuchi cheapo 540 is not enough..
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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2021, 07:38:16 am »

Getting back to0 my original query......


Which brushless motor would be the equivalent power output to the 550 that I fitted in the Jackson please?


I'm aware of the limitations of the original Jackson outboard, and it did a reasonable job of powering my ON boat, but it's no longer possible to use it as the final drive gears are shot after years of use, and there are no spares available any more.


Almost all outboards available these days are flexi-drive versions, which are bulkier than the Jackson but I can live with that, and the Aeronaut version is long enough for the prop to reach the water, which is rather important...........
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colin-d

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2021, 08:21:09 am »

The model shop Bauer in Germany recomend these..

https://www.bauer-modelle.com/Aqua-Race-60-Aussenbordmotor


Ersatzteil Flexwelle 700501.1


G-Power                          4.282135  (7,4V)
2-Blatt-Schiffsschraube     715342     (2318.31)

G-Power                          4.353615  (11,1V)
2-Blatt-Schiffsschraube     715343    (2318.33)   

Speed controler        G-Control 40           4.4000
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tonyH

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2021, 09:41:10 am »

There's loads of data on the 550 group of motors. It's a biggish motor so there's plenty of space. You'll see the dimensions on the data sheets.  Look up a thread on here from March last year from Daniel in Malaga, Spain and you might get some answers.
This is an average 550, so if you use the current/torque/revs figures etc. from this and go onto Hobbyking etc. you can see how much space you've got and sort something to match.
Tony :-))
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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2021, 11:09:31 am »

Here's the boat with the original Jackson installed, and the Aquanaut outboard astern of it. It'll just about suit the 'long shaft' size of the Jackson.







And here it is with a more common Graupner 600 outboard. It's modelled on a 'short shaft' outboard and just isn't long enough to work on my boat.





That G Power motor won't do the job I'm afraid. a) it's 380 sized and b) it's a brushed motor..........
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colin-d

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2021, 11:24:12 am »

I am not to sure which motor you looked at..


But the two recommend by Bauer are brushless..


https://www.bauer-modelle.com/epages/Bauer_Uwe46269592.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Bauer_Uwe46269592/Products/4.282135
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phillnjack3

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2021, 03:46:19 pm »

you simply maount the short shaft motor back by 1/2 inch and it will work perfectly good, just like runninga  shorty 15 inch motor ona 20 inch transom. plus you will get more speed by running it high and a surface prop, just like the real thing.
save buying a mini jackplate or making one...  nice little boat by the way.





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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2021, 09:48:50 am »


But the two recommend by Bauer are brushless..


https://www.bauer-modelle.com/epages/Bauer_Uwe46269592.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Bauer_Uwe46269592/Products/4.2821


Ah, that worked much better thanks. They do look to be possibles.
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mrzippy

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2021, 03:08:28 pm »

Hi KitS,

Just spotted your posts re the outboard issues -
but what's the rather nice hull with more than a dash of 60's/70's offshore racer about it please?

Paul
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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2021, 04:43:35 pm »

Hello Paul,


That's a good question to which I cannot give an exact answer sadly. It came from a sale of stuff that was being run by the guy who had a model racing boat operation in Clevedon some years ago. Apparently it was the last of a run that hadn't sold very well, and I was able to pick it up.


It's nicely moulded, with an integral upper deck, to which I added the two layer cockpit moulding from styrene sheet and the helmsman an navigator from R/C aircraft crew mouldings.


And you hit exactly on the type of boat I wanted it to look like too.  :-)  I used to watch the Cowes-Torquay races from Durlston Head nr. Swanage for many years, thanks to handily located caravan that I used to own.
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phillnjack3

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2021, 04:47:24 pm »

Looks like it a cross between a phantom 16 racedeck and a old marshan 18/ ring 18.
but there was also other speedboats that were called  streakers and this dont look too far out to be one of those too.
nice looking boat.
be nice to know who makes these models.
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mrzippy

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2021, 05:38:58 pm »

Bernard Holder's in the Bristol area and produced OMRA offshore racing hulls?
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KitS

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Re: Brushless Outboard
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2021, 08:39:12 pm »

No, it wasn't Mr. Holder, not as I remember anyway.


The name of the company started with an 'A' as I recall.
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