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Author Topic: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question  (Read 7630 times)

River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2021, 01:44:26 pm »

Indeed Tony dear fellow.


Working hard at the lines plans as we speak, bit of a challenge as the lines plans went into the grave with Herbert Woods God bless him... I only have his rough outline general arrangements to go on, and the chine to Hogg he drew in, and lofted verticals at 7 degree offsets, the accuracy of the sheer and waterline curves getting them just right is hard work.. Completed stations 1 to 4, and now working through stations 5 to 10/Transom..getting there but I reckon at least another full week getting each lofted lines plan bang on.. All good fun though.


Cheers
Paul
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tonyH

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2021, 02:19:37 pm »

Hi Paul,
The only bit you're really interested in, I suppose, is the stuff below the waterline. That's where the displacement's going to lie in wait for the unwary!
I've always enjoyed making one-offs and it's often a case of flexing ones mathematical muscles, assuming one or two are left from the dark days of SOHCAHTOA!!
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2021, 03:24:42 pm »

Hi Tony,


Your thoughts made me laugh here in the hobby house, had to pause laughing for a cuppa.


I have now cracked the underwater profile thank god, but the sheer is playing up a fraction..


Trouble being Tony, over the years since Herbert Woods built the first of the class in 1930, many hull changes in design took place.. In late 1939 he moored all his craft around the large waters of Hickling Broad in an attempt to evade enemy aircraft from landing a raid to England... There the poor old craft sat for 5 yes, then post war late 45 ish, he took on the mammoth task of refloating the craft, most had simply sunk in the muddy waters, where he salvaged some front ends, played around with jigging profiles etc... Then as the years went on into the 60s, before the fleet were sold into private hands, further alterations were again made.


Therefore here I am jigging between pretty, post war and latter yrs to gain the best possible in accuracy, getting there, though of course such changes do in fact help somewhat with the design licence of changes, who is alive to speak different.. Lol.



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John W E

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2021, 04:02:49 pm »

Hi there Paul


Just another thought; have you got access or do you know of anyone who has - any manuals from The Motor Boat and Yachting range?


I know they did a magazine as well as a yearly manual - and - I know somewhere they did an article on Norfolk Broads Cruisers and their design.   Old age catching up with me here - I cant remember if its in the Manual or in Magazine.    Just a thought......


John
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2021, 04:08:27 pm »

Ah ha, yes thanks John, I have that, indeed a few decent articles over the years have been produced, Yachting Monthly, Watercraft, Classic Boat to name a few, but again the authors are all tied into the rights of the original designs, and so only GA profiles were shown. Model Boats did an article back in Oct 1968 of the old Cruisers, which did show three key frames of typical hire Cruisers, again all various designs against each other, the boatyards wars back then eh...


Cheers
Paul
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2021, 04:12:31 pm »

I am actually moving along nicely, where the chine, Hogg, sheer and deck arrangements are just about in place, I may surprise myself and complete the plans by Thursday.


At the end of the day, even when the drawings come back from the printers in Sheffield, and I assemble the frames etc, it may be that a millimeter here and there need altering, and if I do, will readjust the drawings just in case of future requests from fellow model boaters.


Cheers
Paul
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tonyH

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2021, 04:33:03 pm »

Don't worry Paul, jiggling and joggling are well understood round 'ere!

Luckily, I don't have to look at it from your perspective and you certainly have my respect for the way you've approached the re-creation.
I think that my methodology tends to be that if I've got the loa, beam and a couple of pics showing the bow and the chine line, I've got a fighting chance of a reasonable shape. Other details are available if you're dead lucky!
If you look on the Scuderia Lockdown thread in the Powerboat section, you'll see what I mean. The red one is Sonny Levi designed Ultima Dea and the other is Colin Mudie designed Jackie S. I've no idea atall  how close to accurate they are but all I'm after is a "fair representation".Both were built in the early '60s and still followed a lot of the Scott-Paine principles for offshore racing but then the Surfuries and Cigarettes came onto the scene and effectively made UD and JS redundant. Whichever way it comes out, using whichever approach, it's good fun............especially if it floats O0
Cheers
Tony
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2021, 04:53:59 pm »

Tony dear chap,


I just love all you state, and indeed "A Fair Representative of the real craft", if it looks good, pleasing to the eye, then what more can we ask of lol.


Cheers again
Paul
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tonyH

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2021, 05:42:53 pm »

Too Kind, Too Kind! %)
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2021, 06:31:33 pm »

Yippee, Brilliant stuff,


Just completed the lines plans for Delight, amazed myself, by simply pausing for an hour, jigging frames 3 & 4 at the chine, then running up the verticals to 1/2 a mm, and hey presto the curves joined in lovely and gently.


That's all it took on such small scale... A fraction of a mm.. I really thought I would be playing about for days on this.


All I need to do now is draw in the cabin furnishings, fine pen in all the work and get off to the printers.


It means on Tues I can then work out what timber I need, which I purchase from Hobbies at Norfolk, always given me good quality timber at good prices...


Excellent progress, mind you it will be fun taking 2mm off every frame to be spot on, but that's all the fun.


Cheers again All for your input, been great advice when it comes to installing the radio gear.


Paul
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2021, 06:33:18 pm »

As promised, I shall take lots of  pics as I move along with the old lady.
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2021, 08:26:17 pm »

Just took a photo to show my current Broads boat projects underway, only for MBM to reject the size, damn it. I shall have to find a way of reducing the size.


Cheers
Paul
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2021, 08:45:43 am »

Just took a photo to show my current Broads boat projects underway, only for MBM to reject the size, damn it. I shall have to find a way of reducing the size.


Cheers
Paul
A much read thread here - https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61103.0.html
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2021, 11:57:18 am »

Yes thanks for that,


But it's the reduction in size the snag,
I shall just have to transfer the photos onto the PC and reduce through the coral programme.


Cheers
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2021, 12:03:59 pm »

Just to let you all know, that after today I will close posting in this thread and start up a new one titled "1930s Broads Cruiser Building Project"... There I can continue to post lots of progress photos from beginning to end, and hopefully will almost become an informative thread where newcomers can see any pitfalls, and with any questions I have along the way of her build, your professional thoughts will also help others, and me...


Should be a real fun build...


Just penning in the plans today for the printers, then tomorrow mark up the building board exact etc....


I will be running with two builds, the Delight and Happy Days the forward drive Broads day boat built for George Formby in 1950, Happy Days will be 1:12 scale.


Cheers again


Paul
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grendel

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2021, 12:46:23 pm »

Paul if it is of any assistance I have access to Delight vii (i believe) now called Water Rail, the later boats are an extra foot or two longer, I will be out on the Broads in her next week if you need to see any details or want to take dimensions, the real interest is the external steering wires down the port deck, going to the quadrant in the box on the deck in the rear, this would be a nice feature to reproduce in the model.
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grendel

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2021, 12:48:04 pm »

and some more pics
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grendel

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2021, 12:53:45 pm »

The model you are proposing is of interest to me as i too intend a model of this boat, once I have completed the one i am in progress of Broad Ambition., but I will attempt this at 1/12 scale.
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grendel

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2021, 12:56:00 pm »

if you need any detail photographs of any part of the boat, do contact me and i will do my best.
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2021, 03:08:45 pm »

Hey Grendel dear fellow, wonderful, perfect, brilliant.... You can tell how utterly excited I really am over your lovely post.


Yes you are quite correct Water Rail is indeed Delight VII, she was built by Herbert in 1932, 12 of the class were built. He did the class in odd and even numbers, where there were only internal design changes to the accommodation layouts.


All 12 of the class were originally built at 24' LOA, 8'6" Beam,  and 2' Draft. Following on from post war Herbert put in a number of changes to hulls of all his light class fleets, though I believe that Water Rails extension to 27' was made after she went into private ownership... Pretty sure that's the case, as I see no records of such an expansion by Herbert, his Ring, Dancing and Queen of light classes had the odd 6" to 1' increase, but nothing more discussing way back with his Daughter and Herbert Grandson, when I originally laid down plans for model kits, but huge thanks as any pics of external detail all about the hull, the midship run down several of the cockpit would be excellent. If you could get a few of the cabin internals for this model, would be great, huge thanks.


Its rather sad I feel of Water Rail name change, but that had to go in place through an agreement with the owners taking her from Herbert, Woods did not want her name as Delight VII going about in case she fell into bad hands and I'll repair, bad for his reputation.


The only shame of Water Rail is the fact that her fwd topside cabin sides are painted white, when of course her original was lovely varnished Mahogany.. When I spoke with the then owner at Horning a while back, I did state that part would have been lovely to see returned.


Its also of interest that both Spark, Queen and Prince (debatable), have all retained their original names with zero redress from Woods yard. In fact Queen sports the Woods bow pennant and star.. Flash sold recently as you know to private, retains the star on her bows... All good stuff.


In relation to the finish of the Delight model I am making for a chap who has two of our other light class kits, he wanted it in the same scale, understandable of course, but such presents a little extra work on my part having her detailed but also with radio gear installed. My personal preference would have been to raise her to 1:12 scale, which eases things and period model furniture etc for the cabins is all readily available through hobbies shops etc... I have one last chance to convince him this week as the drawings go off to the printers on Wed,....


Areas like hand grab rails, extra rubbing strakes, and even the cockpit to cabin doors, single, to double and back again, even opening into or from the cockpit were constant changes by Herbert, so from the perspective of this model, whatever scale, I am aiming to do the finer details as was on commission in 1930/31....Even the keel/hogg/rudder designs altered, in particular post WWII after Herbert refloated the fleet from Hickling broad and rebuilt them all, as you'll probably be aware with all your good fine research.


I spoke with the guys of Broad Ambition way back, seeing their model, all great stuff.


Back onto your voyage, I recently sent an email to the new owners of little Water Rail, giving them a heads up of the scale model, but typical of this sad pandemic, I only received a bog standard reply, automated email stating "thank you for you enquiry,...." with all information of the fact that they are not hiring her out presently,... I therefore politely replied as to the content of my email and not relating to hiring the old lady... Interesting that your setting off ahoy on board her shortly...


Safe and enjoyable trip dear fellow, just like going back in time it will be, give Salhouse, Malthouse and Hickling Broads our love please, we badly miss the place...


Do please keep in touch and many thanks for the kind offer of photos and measurements.


Safe voyage dear fellow.
Kind regards
Paul
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2021, 03:11:59 pm »

I meant to add Grendel, ref the steering quadrant runs, yes it's truly lovely to replicate working in model form, I still have all the mouldings I created for Ring of light in our kits, I would pass on but of course wrong scale at 1:16 sadly my friend.


Cheers again
Paul
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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2021, 03:21:13 pm »

Grendel, just to let you know that box over the Quadrant was an afterthought manufacture by the owners who took her on into private ownership. I understand their reason to avoid a snagging and tripping hazard, but of course the box was never there when in the hire fleet. I personally love to see it as it should be, a fine piece of engineering design fully visible working.....


Cheers again
Paul
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2021, 04:33:01 pm »

Just completed penning in the Delights plans, profile and lines, phew a task and a half, but got there.


Tomorrow onto the building board, marking up the station positions etc.., and ordering timber from Hobbies in Norfolk.


Cheers
Paul
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grendel

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2021, 04:35:58 pm »

The current situation with WR is that she is not for hire, the owner however runs a buddy scheme, with 3 of us sharing the annual costs mooring river toll and insurance etc, for this we get a minimum of 7 weeks cruising (if we can use it all) as far as i know she was bought into private hands about 60 odd years ago and stayed in one family until the other year when my friend acquired her, she was never extended under their ownership, and is rated at 26 foot, (i believe no two of the delights were exactly the same dimensions, they didnt build to plans back then) though some internal fit out modifications have been done, and she will soon be going out of the water to have some more remedial work done (it was supposed to be last winter, but was cancelled,) she needs new water tanks as the current ones leak, and a complete rewire to replace what looks like 1930's household wiring. the wood on the cabin sides, i would love to see reinstated, internally it looks wonderful, I am inclined to keep the box over the steering quadrant, its hard enough keeping the mooring ropes out of the steering wires already there are still some existing original features, the louvered grills under the deck step to allow ventilation to the engine bay for one. I can make myself a quadrant if / when i build the model, as i can get the measurements and have a decent set of machine tools to work with. there is a fair amount of space under the cabin sole for the motor and radio gear to hide, even at 1 /16 scale there should be room for a reasonable motor. anyway, I will get some detail photos for you next week and post them here on this thread if thats ok with you- they will come in handy for my build too. do you attend the wooden boat show at beccles at all in august as I should be there with WR as will the owner in one of his other boats (he should be there - he organises it all), , I would be happy to show you round WR and should also have my Broad Ambition model in attendance too.
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River Model Guy

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Re: Minimal Radio Controlled Cabin Cruiser Workable Size - Question
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2021, 05:07:59 pm »

Lovely hearing from you dear fellow, it's all fantastic history all things classic broads craft.


Yes she did stay in private hands throughout, the same until your friends purchased her... I watched the sale with interest, priced at 17K, seems cheap but of course as well you will know, that's only the surface, then bounces in the ongoing maintenance costs of rising timbers..


Off topic, we owned a 34 footer Ernest Collins 1920 River Cruiser yacht, in between my royal navy service away, on every leave I would replace timbers/ribs, planking, new cabin sides, spars, rigging, sails, etc,  you name it. We paid 8K for the yacht, but upon my works put in over 30K of materials just to bring her back to her former glory, then every season at least 2K, plus moorings... Sadly so many take on wooden Classics without the knowledge of upkeep, and so they fall by the wayside to watery graves, sadly. Breaks my heart... Luckily I was able to do all the works myself, had I not, would never have bought her.


Looking at WR, I would think it's a good time coming up when she goes into the shed to have complete new cabin sides all round, looks like previous a great deal of timbers have been spliced into her holding back the thought of full restoration.... .. How long has she been "Wet" in the water since her last refurb....interesting stuff.


All that said looking at her way forward it's good that the new owners have her on the go being used by you guys, rather than sitting there doing nothing freezing up with damp creeping in..


I can just imagine the state of the wiring, surprised the survey did not pick it up on the 4 annual, but hey ho, at least your all onto it eh..


The model I am producing will have the traditional drop down canvas screens all round as was...


Did not plan for the Beccles event this year, but now you mention it, sounds good, and would be great to meet you, and see your lovely creation of lovely old BA.


Have you noticed WRs Stern sitting in the water, dropped a couple of inches since her build lol... Never surprising though since she has been about for so long, timbers get waterlogged.


I am really honoured meeting you in here, so much to mull over, a small world... We shall Deffo need to swap pics and build experiences of our little old Classics eh... I shall try again and put in pics of the models I built, just have to downsize them...


Huge thanks again for the pics your doing, very very kind.


If you do need any odd scale fittings ready made for your Broads models,  in the future at 1:16 scale,  I would be honoured to send them on as freebies.


Kind regards again, love to WR, pat her on the Stem from me please.


Paul
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